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A question for hobby show vendors; Paging Mr. Starfighter
Topic Started: Oct 16 2016, 02:26 AM (1,303 Views)
dknights
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The court of LAST RESORT!
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I've noticed over the last year or two it seems that in general, most model shows had a decrease in attendance, number of vendors and number of entrants. Having an interest in the business side of the hobby, I've wondered if this is a sign of an economic downturn, a sign of something going on just in our hobby, the overall effect of the internet, or something else. (There are exceptions to the trend, but overall the decline holds true.)

I know that kits are getting built. I see it here. In our local club, our local members seem to be finishing more models than in years past. Our club also continues a slow growth in membership. However, I do think fewer members are going to shows.

I occasionally sell some surplus kits at shows, but I'm not really "in the business". I''d like to hear from those who are what they are seeing and what they think. I know the recent closure of CRM, a show regular got me thinking hard about this issue.

Thoughts?
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: NONE
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11
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stimpy
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Is It Safe?..... Nope
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My local IMPS show is next Saturday. It's a 45min drive. In the 14 years I have lived here I have only gone twice. I went to see what the deal was and see the folks who make up the local Chapter before I was going to turn up at one of the monthly meetings. Oddly I never actually got to speak to a club member, part my shyness but also because there was no "welcome newcomers want to join the Chapter?" to be seen.

Now I do not judge people by their cover, really I put that aside, I have enough masks of my own to confuse people and I am old enough to know better. I took my kids and some planes to a show, I think it was 3 years ago now. I have no interest whatsoever to go back. A piss poor venue with crap lighting, a 1970's man'ish smokey patriarchal greasy obese environment is what I came away with, as did my kids who couldn't believe how many unhealthy looking people could be found in one place. Harsh words? Maybe, but that is what was offered, you can't hide that, there ain't no Eduard pussy mulling around here, I didn't want to be associated with this. I am sure the modellers there are like most other modellers, fine people who will share the enjoyment of their hobby, if only I wanted to hang around.

Since then I have managed to attend some of the other IPMS shows which involves much more driving because:

1. Better vendor attendance, I can pick up all those modelling essentials like glue, plastic stock, paints, tools etc etc and is the main reason I make the drive. I try to pick up a years supply at these. The local show did not attract these vendors. Just boxes of old crappy models that no one needs to buy.

2. The display is better provided for with good lighting, qty of models. There's a buzz that was lacking at both the local shows I attended.

A show can be an enjoyable event for sure. Since it's all voluntary there may not be the ability to create a better space. That takes work and imagination. The local venue, and it's the same this year does nothing to entice me back. Now we are talking about it, maybe I should just pop along to confirm what I don't know and take my bike and go off for an Indian Summer cycle in the mountains across the valley.

Now, go back to 1998 when I attended my only Telford show (and took a couple of my kits for display) it was the opposite, overwhelming, overwhelmed my credit card too, but there, it was the sense that unless you were an uber brilliant modeller, you were nothing. Watching the judges go around, eaves dropping other modellers critique I went wow, these folks take this hobby way to seriously, where is the fun, the baseline enjoyment? This is a hobby right?

Prior to Telford, I attended a couple of shows up in Scotland which I did enjoy, 1995 - 97, friendly, not to big, lots of vendors, good displays, that was both welcoming and inspirational. That's what I judge all future events against. The show in IPMS in Northern NJ April show is the closest I get to that.
No more plastic
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Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
That's always the way once competition is introduced, into a hobby or anything else. People do take competition seriously, especially at the National and International level. Given the high level of modelling on show at these shows, it is necessary to get downright picky to find one that is better than the others. The solution for me, and I would guess for you, is to avoid the competition altogether, at least until the dust has settled. There's plenty of people around at the SiG and Branch tables willing to have a laugh with their modelling.

If you want young slim fit hyperactive extrovert people, then no, you won't find them modelling. However I did take my daughter (young teenage at the time) to a couple of shows and she enjoyed being with the members of my local club. As I was to discover coming back from a wander around the show, she also liked the Calvados IPMS France were sharing around.
Lancashire, UK
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Flyboy72nd
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Hero
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One of my favourite shows, except for our own, is coming up in just under 2 weeks. Contrary to what was the original post this show has been growing, vendors crammed in every nook & cranny, it's hard to find a cranny to relax in and call your own!!???? The model count is about 500 and that has grown recently from about 350, and most of the vendors are selling older/unwanted kits, but there are still some gems in the piles. This show is a yearly affair held in a school cafeteria and the culinary arts students put on a buffet, all you can eat, and they still let me in!!??!! Our show goes off every other year mainly due to burnout. You probably all know that in a club it's always the same folks who step forward to help run the club/shows??? This coming year (2017) the club exec have organized with the Canadian War Museum to hold the show at their fine quarters!! This could be an amazing venue so I am anxious to see how it turns out.
In the past year I have been to 4 local (province of Ontario, yes I know probably larger than the British isles!!) shows, two I had not attended before and a returning 'fave', and as with Ajax (the above show) plenty of models, plenty of vendors! With more time on my hands I may start to return to some of the upper NY State shows I have attended before.
So to sum things up, model shows, vending here in Ontario appears to be very healthy. The crowd remains basically the same, and with age comes ? wisdom ? so I know who to talk to and who to avoid. I have judged at all the shows above and have never really had any huge problems.
So I would luv to chat more but I've got some models to finish for the show!!!
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Building something Canadian, Eh! Graham; to avoid confusion M., from Canada's Capital!!
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dixieflyer
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Hero
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Interesting subject, and interesting comments. I can't add to dknight's question, but I do find it interesting that Stimpy and I have been to the same number and type of shows, one local and one national or larger, yet our experiences are the exact opposite.
The local show I attended, back in the mid/late 80's, was a local one (Birmingham, Ala.) and it was well lit, great venue, and friendly, wonderful people that were all about bringing in new members, making folks welcome, etc. The other was the IPMS Nats in Atlanta. Great venue, lots to see and do. Competition was heavy, but if you didn't want to be involved in it, there was plenty to occupy yourself otherwise. (Then again, I met up with online friends at the latter, so . . . .)

Warren
"History is the lie we all agree upon."
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Joe Hegedus
Beast
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Graham Boak,Oct 16 2016
09:27 AM

If you want young slim fit hyperactive extrovert people, then no, you won't find them modelling.

That's the truth!

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RJ Tucker
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Ack, Oop, THPPFFT Baby
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Graham Boak,Oct 16 2016
10:27 AM
If you want young slim fit hyperactive extrovert people, then no, you won't find them modelling. 

Ah...... well ........ I'm not hyperactive. Just ask Mrs Tucker. ;)

RJ
Phantoms phorever!


Flag Plot: My virtual model display shelf
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Starfighter Decals
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Interesting Question. I have been vending at Model Shows since 1990. I average 10 to 15 shows a year in the Mid-Atlantic area of the US (NY to SC, west to IN) and the US IPMS Nats.

Certain shows are up, and others are down. Clear as mud I know. So many variables go into why attendance varies. I can say several shows have stopped due to low or no attendance. Several have actually grown in size during the same time frame. I know money does have something to do with it. However, time and again, it does come down to folks who want to run the event and having the support to pull the event off. I know one club has the funds to run a show, but no one will step up to run the event. Another club stepped up after years of not running an event to put a show on, only to fall victim to bickering and in-fighting on the day of the show and no one will ever help with that show again.

One problem are shows scheduled on Sundays. Those only draw local vendors because not many will travel late Sunday and get up early Monday Morning for work/school or have religious objections to working on Sunday.

Another problem I see are shows scheduling event on the same day with in a small region. For some reason, a certain weekend in September no less than 4 clubs, with a 5th on Sunday, have their show. So Vendors have to pick based on their costs. This happens in March as well (though not to this extent). Personally I had to give up vending at certain events because of this. It's sad because I have friends in these area that I don't get to see as much anymore.

I guess if I had to say the one issue whether or not a show will be successful is the time and effort the hosting club puts into it. From the Nats to the local group of guys, if they don't know what they are doing, it will fail. The economy plays a small part, no doubt. But if you put on a first rate event that is organized and well run, you will be successful. If you want specific examples, PM me, as I don't want to air an events "dirty laundry" or pour praise on a club that others may not agree with. 26 years of vending experience has given me a unique perspective on this issue. Having many folk's ears helps as well. I get told many things that very few will ever know and never become public.

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dknights
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The court of LAST RESORT!
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Starfighter Decals,Oct 17 2016
09:48 AM
Interesting Question. I have been vending at Model Shows since 1990. I average 10 to 15 shows a year in the Mid-Atlantic area of the US (NY to SC, west to IN) and the US IPMS Nats.

Certain shows are up, and others are down. Clear as mud I know. So many variables go into why attendance varies. I can say several shows have stopped due to low or no attendance. Several have actually grown in size during the same time frame. I know money does have something to do with it. However, time and again, it does come down to folks who want to run the event and having the support to pull the event off. I know one club has the funds to run a show, but no one will step up to run the event. Another club stepped up after years of not running an event to put a show on, only to fall victim to bickering and in-fighting on the day of the show and no one will ever help with that show again.

One problem are shows scheduled on Sundays. Those only draw local vendors because not many will travel late Sunday and get up early Monday Morning for work/school or have religious objections to working on Sunday.

Another problem I see are shows scheduling event on the same day with in a small region. For some reason, a certain weekend in September no less than 4 clubs, with a 5th on Sunday, have their show. So Vendors have to pick based on their costs. This happens in March as well (though not to this extent). Personally I had to give up vending at certain events because of this. It's sad because I have friends in these area that I don't get to see as much anymore.

I guess if I had to say the one issue whether or not a show will be successful is the time and effort the hosting club puts into it. From the Nats to the local group of guys, if they don't know what they are doing, it will fail. The economy plays a small part, no doubt. But if you put on a first rate event that is organized and well run, you will be successful. If you want specific examples, PM me, as I don't want to air an events "dirty laundry" or pour praise on a club that others may not agree with. 26 years of vending experience has given me a unique perspective on this issue. Having many folk's ears helps as well. I get told many things that very few will ever know and never become public.

Thanks for the reply.

You know the economics from the vendor's perspective. Are shows becoming less economically viable for vendors to attend? Is your business at shows down, especially if the shows are less well attended. Have the variable costs of attended shows (gas, etc) gotten to the point where they hurt the economic viability of attending? Can a business vendor such as yourself still make money doing shows?

When we in Louisville started doing our show in our new location a number of years ago, we cut table prices from $30 to $15 as we felt we had to do something to help the vendor community. It's not much but it was all we could do directly. Are other shows doing anything to help the vendors? I know this doesn't affect folks like me who just drag some surplus kits out to sell, but the true hobby retailer is whose perspective I am interested in.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: NONE
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11
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Mark Schynert
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Yeast
[ * ]
I'd say the data on viability of shows is very mixed. I'm in two clubs, said clubs having about a 30% membership overlap, and the contests they respectively host are different in size, but not quality. The larger show gets about twice as many vendors, but IMO is only 10% better when it comes to scope of product available. This is because a major hobby shop and a comprehensive decal merchant make both events, while much of what's left over is either hyper-specialist (one vendor seems to sell only Indy Car and F1 stuff, while another specializes in 1/32 aircraft, and armor resin kits/AM) or just more garage clearance guys. We have a couple of local AM manufacturers (Obscureco and Barracuda) who are often but not always in attendance.

These contests have been steady to slightly increasing over the last ten years, though one contest took a one-year hiatus due to funding issues about five years ago. I don't know the model counts, but the smaller club's counts are certainly lower than the larger's, yet the vibe is pretty much the same at both, and the proportionate draw from the various corners of the region is also about the same. One thing we have to contend with in California is that distances are much greater to get to shows with typical drives of two hours or more each way (except for the two clubs above, which are within twenty minutes of each other.) The other shows I have been to have been mostly well-attended and well-run, but there are a lot of contests I don't get to, simply because of distance. it takes a significant commitment of will, and if I don't have something I'm proud to put on the table, there's less incentive to spend the whole day at a contest. Sometimes I do anyway.

The Nats are different beasts entirely. In that case, the financial commitment to traveling is a major budgetary consideration, involving anywhere from 600 to 3000 miles worth of airfare each way, so the trip has to serve a family purpose as well as the immediate needs of the convention. This means I've only made it to three Nats (would have been four, but I got sick at the wrong time one year and cancelled out). Putting contests in such garden spots as Omaha, Nebraska simply doesn't cut it. Of course, the upside is an unparalleled spread of models on the table, and enough vendors to break anyone's budget.
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Starfighter Decals
Hero
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A wonderful question!

Is 2016 "better" than 2015? I won't know until after my last show in November. This year has been somewhat unique as 3 of my regular shows were not attended due to scheduling conflicts of two events that happened an unprecedented 3 times this year. I also lost another show due to "lack of interest" of the club members part. Sales from show to show varies from year to year. To many factors are in play to say if it's a trend or a one time blimp. Overall, I would say since 2009, shows overall have been down. A small turn-around was seen in 2010-11 and 2014-15, but wasn't large enough to recover the losses since '09.

What makes a show profitable or worthwhile? It depends on the location, honestly. The price of gas becoming more reasonable has most defiantly helped me. However, the cost of hotels has gone up around 25-33% in the past 5 years from being steady for the previously 8 years. So it's becoming a wash. Food cost has also risen significantly, so more rooms with kitchens and trips to the grocery store instead of restaurants if it's a 2 day show.

My years of experience has given me a mountain of data to work with. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect with each venue. The margins vary from location to location. For example, I can't go wrong with shows in the Washington DC and Hampton Roads area. Head north to NY/NJ and other Northeast venues, I pass. The lodging cost and the higher price of Gas reduce the margins to unworkable, unless it's a 2 day Regional show, and then I still pause. The Mid-west was great until the past 3 years with the hike in gas and hotel taxes turned a profitable show into a marginal event. So I went to TN where the cost of gas and hotels is less (unless it a football weekend...ugh!).

Sales depends on how much new product I have. It has been harder this year as many of the new Airfix kits have been delayed or show up in small numbers. Airfix has also shrunk their margins as well, as the discount has been reduced by 50% from 2014, 15% in 2016 alone. Most of my profit comes from my line of products. I have dropped many lines and picked up others in an effort to keep or improve margins so vending stays profitable.

I do have a secret weapon that most vendors do not have: I have a loyal customer base that will come to a show if I vend. A few events have increased because I make the trip yearly and folks come to shop and talk to me. Both event host and customers have told me this. A few venues give me vendor tables if I will come, as when I set up, attendance increases. Yep, it's an Ego Boost, but many venues/events have learned that good vendors attract more thru the gate, making the show more viable. Which leads to more quality vendors, that lead to more folks at the show, and so on.

If more Events took care of their vendors and hosted events in vendor friendly facilities (PM me if you want to know the specifics), more vendors might be willing to go. Price of the tables is only a small cost to professional vendors like myself, but a major factor to those cleaning out closets/basements. If I have to drag my stuff up a steep hill like you had to at Columbus. OH, or up and down stairs like a hotel outside of Baltimore, MD, stuffed into a small room with no room to maneuver like Baltimore, MD, dragging my stuff up either 3 stair cases and a large parking lot or up the freight elevator and thru the hotel kitchen like Morgantown, WV, unless I am making lots of money, I'm not going. On the other hand, if the club helps me unload and load my van, has easy access to the room, allows me to unload/set up the night before, I will always go even if it's a marginal show. If I am treated like an important part of the show, I will come away with a positive impression even if I barely break even. If I am treated like a burden, harassed and otherwise treated like an afterthought or a "necessary evil", even if I made a pile of money, I would give serious pause before going to that venue ever again. I have a few events I will not longer vend at because of how I was treated.

There is no "Secret Formula" to being successful at show vending. So many variables go into it. Experience is the one thing that is essential, but you can't buy it. It must be earned. Preparation is the other. Many times I have vended at a show and come away with smile on my face, an empty van, and full pockets while others can't even cover their table costs. This has enabled me to stay profitable and viable during these hard economic times.


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dknights
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The court of LAST RESORT!
[ * ]
Thanks. That was exactly the type of input I was looking for. Interesting that there has been an overall general decline since 2009. I guess our hobby isn't immune to the malaise economy.

It makes sense that you do best on your own products. My follow up would be that must put some pressure on you when selecting what "new product" to produce. I am sure that the capital investment, while not as large as in the past, is still significant.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: NONE
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11
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Flyboy72nd
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Hero
[ * ]
Interesting points, I wonder if you care to explain the difference I see between shows here in Canada (Ontario mostly) and the US, are we late in getting the down turn?
As I mentioned before I have not been to any of the upper NY shows I used to attend so I have not seen what is happening to them?
The 4 shows I went to last year; Ajax 35 (Oct 15), Heritagecon 10 (Mar IIRC), Torcan 'The Revival' many but not every year lately (May) & AMPS North 4 or 5 years I think (end May) all had loads of vendors both those with store fronts & those culling stashes!! My year is the model show fiscal year, summer to summer!? I should mention that 1 of these shows were held in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), 1 in Hamilton and easy drive from the GTA & the other 2 also easy commutes and may even be considered part of the GTA??? So there is a large population base! Thinking back all these shows had easy access to the vendor area, usually a back door on the same level. All these shows would not have been able to allow set up the night before due to the venue, our new venue next year may have this possibility. I usually drop good money at the vendors although lately not as much as I did at my first US Nats - '87 D.C.!!!
In 9 days I/we head off to Ajax so when I get back I will report on the happenings. We usually go to a store on the Fri., show is on Sat., you know the type model shelves stocked floor to ceiling, although advanced age is making it hard to see & get to the lower kits and just hard to read the higher ones!!! We always go back Sun. morn before heading home to make sure we didn't miss anything!?!

Very interesting discussion!
Posted Image

Building something Canadian, Eh! Graham; to avoid confusion M., from Canada's Capital!!
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dknights
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The court of LAST RESORT!
[ * ]
Flyboy72nd,Oct 18 2016
11:54 AM
Interesting points, I wonder if you care to explain the difference I see between shows here in Canada (Ontario mostly) and the US, are we late in getting the down turn?
As I mentioned before I have not been to any of the upper NY shows I used to attend so I have not seen what is happening to them?
The 4 shows I went to last year; Ajax 35 (Oct 15), Heritagecon 10 (Mar IIRC), Torcan 'The Revival' many but not every year lately (May) & AMPS North 4 or 5 years I think (end May) all had loads of vendors both those with store fronts & those culling stashes!! My year is the model show fiscal year, summer to summer!? I should mention that 1 of these shows were held in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), 1 in Hamilton and easy drive from the GTA & the other 2 also easy commutes and may even be considered part of the GTA??? So there is a large population base! Thinking back all these shows had easy access to the vendor area, usually a back door on the same level. All these shows would not have been able to allow set up the night before due to the venue, our new venue next year may have this possibility. I usually drop good money at the vendors although lately not as much as I did at my first US Nats - '87 D.C.!!!
In 9 days I/we head off to Ajax so when I get back I will report on the happenings. We usually go to a store on the Fri., show is on Sat., you know the type model shelves stocked floor to ceiling, although advanced age is making it hard to see & get to the lower kits and just hard to read the higher ones!!! We always go back Sun. morn before heading home to make sure we didn't miss anything!?!

Very interesting discussion!

I hadn't considered whether Canada might be experiencing different things regarding their shows as opposed to the ones in the US.
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: NONE
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11
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Starfighter Decals
Hero
[ * ]
Flyboy72nd,Oct 18 2016
11:54 AM
Interesting points, I wonder if you care to explain the difference I see between shows here in Canada (Ontario mostly) and the US, are we late in getting the down turn?

I have never vended at a show in Canada. Some vendors that I know that have had to pay VAT tax, submit inventories when crossing the border into Canada, and again when leaving, paying taxes on the difference. Some breezed right thru without narry a question or paying a dime. So, I just take a powder and pass, encouraging them to see me at either the (now defunct) Erie, PA show or at a Buffcon Regional show (every 4-5 years usually, no the Sunday show).

To expand a bit on the downturn. I live in the DC Metro area. We are one of the few areas of the USA immune to the economy thanks to Uncle Sam. So the shows in my immediate area are always very good and why many vendors from far away come to these shows (Modelcon and Old Dominion Open) and keep growing every year. Traveling to other locals gives me just how areas are being affected. Good example: Pittsburgh show was marginal for years. It's close and could be done without a motel stay when I was a younger man. When the fracking took off in Western PA, Eastern OH, and W.VA, so did the sales. Yes the economy does effect sales, but I try to keep myself immune by offering items no one else has at competitive prices. This is how a company survives lean times. So many vendors at shows seem to offer the same stuff as the other guy. This results in price wars and I have learned not to get involved in. What good it it to "give stuff away" when you can't replace it to sell at the next show?

I have learned as well that certain venues seem to draw those who are "cheap" and only looking for bargains, and those who appreciate quality items at a fair price. That's my target customer.
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