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| Dangit, it's happened again | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 27 2016, 03:35 AM (688 Views) | |
| softscience | Oct 27 2016, 03:35 AM Post #1 |
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Hero
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I hope you all will indulge me in a bit of a whinge. I'm in need of some sage advice. In the last two years or so, I seem to have had a high washout rate on my 72nd scale builds. It seems for every kit I finish successfully, I seriously screw up three or four. Most of the screwups seem to be modern jets, and the screwing up occurs near the end of the build. Last year it was an F-16 and an RF-4, both died near completion when I decided they just looked too sloppy. The same happened with an A-7, an Mi-24, and an F-4J earlier this yearMost of said sloppiness was from having to touch up paint that had rubbed off as I handled the kits in the long process of post-paint construction (undercarriage, canopies, payloads, aerials, etc.). Just tonight I reached the last straw with a fujimi F-14. I haven't binned it yet, but I'm tempted. I've had better luck with prop fighters, larger scale planes, and armor. Am I just barking up the wrong tree? I'm tempted to jump ship on what has been my preferred aircraft scale since the early 90s. Yes, I could just go build more prop jobs, but they're not interesting me lately, and I dont really like running away from failure. But this is making me unenthusiastic for new projects, or makes me rush just so I can prove to myself that I can surmount the point at which failure occurs, thus turning it into self-fullfilling prophecy. I know I'm not being 100% clear right now, but I think y'all get my just. Maybe I'm incapable of doing a good job at the moment, but how do I regain the capability? |
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----------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from beautiful Maryland, Ralph K. | |
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| RexTN | Oct 27 2016, 04:08 AM Post #2 |
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Accidental CAG
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Maybe you could clear coat with something tougher, before you handle them for that final bunch of small bits. |
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yep, one of each USN squadron http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/ http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx | |
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| kingofmen | Oct 27 2016, 04:54 AM Post #3 |
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Least
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I can't remember the last time I had paint rub off due to contact. Are you using enamels? Plus, I have to ask. Why would the problem be any better with other scales or model types? Your posting gives the impression that the problem is related to scale. |
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Kevin Callahan Auburn WA USA Visit the re-energized 72 Land blog at http://72land.blogspot.com/ All hail 1:72! | |
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| nsmekanik | Oct 27 2016, 06:32 AM Post #4 |
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Beast
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Might be scale/subject related becuase of the mindset, maybe it's just the subject that happens to be in this scale that you mostly build it. All subjective of course, I would definitely give it a good clear coat, it's something I do for that very reason, also you might be obsessing a bit much over the build quality for what ever reason, my wife says my best work is on the subjects that I am not so concerned about. Just a thought. |
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| erussell | Oct 27 2016, 06:54 AM Post #5 |
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C'est
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If you are in mental equilibrium no one scale is harder than another. Within the limitations of the scale a good modeller can build a good model in 1/144 or 1/24. Perhaps you might be more specific....... pictures even........ You certainly wouldn't be the first modeller with a modelling problem between the ears. It's happened to me. On a practical note - clear coat, paint incubator, cotton gloves, handling aids like dowels and modified coat hangers increased drying times........... etc |
| Ed Russell at www.redroomodels.com | |
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| Mark Schynert | Oct 27 2016, 07:21 AM Post #6 |
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Yeast
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I can only go on what screws me up late in the build--trying to finish too fast. It gets to a point where i want to gallop into the barn, and often as not, I break something or damage the finish, or lose a part. Some of the things i do now: 1. Slow down. 2. Walk away. Important when one has just applied paint, glue or filler. 3. Try to declutter--especially, in terms of liquids, moving them far away from the mostly-finished model. 4. Not trying to do things from an awkward position. 5. Find a safe place to put the model, as in far away from anything else you might want to work on while waiting fro something to dry. 6. Make sure the remaining necessarily tiny parts are either in a plastic bag, A sealable container, or stuck to a piece tape. Not loose on the table. I have no idea if any of this relates to the issues you have, but it sure does to mine. |
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| InchHigh | Oct 27 2016, 12:43 PM Post #7 |
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It's a good day to build.
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Sorry you've hit a run of bad luck, Ralph. I don't see how the issue is scale-related. Paint is rubbing off plastic, the paint doesn't care what the scale of the subject is. It may be related to the amount of handling, jets in general are more complex subjects than the average single engine prop. I had similar issues when using acrylics so I switched to enamels. Besides wear, I was also experiencing problems with masking lifting up the paint. I made some changes in my building practices, any of these may also help you too. 1. Wash the model with hot soapy tap water before starting construction. 2. Wash your hands each time before working, and don't eat at the bench. Oils from your hands will wind up on the model. 3. Use a "handle" and a stand whenever practical, especially when painting. Rods or tubes stuck into a tailpipe anchored to a wood block work well. 4. Switch to enamels if using acrylics. 5. Thin your enamels with lacquer thinner. Many advantages to this, better adhesion is one of them. Quicker drying time is another. 6. Clear coat to seal the paint. Add extra layers where you would touch the model to pick it up. Hope this helps. |
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Jeff Time spent modeling is not deducted from your lifespan. I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest of it I just wasted. | |
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| softscience | Oct 27 2016, 02:58 PM Post #8 |
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Hero
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I too don't see how the problem could be scale related, but it does seem to be. Could be something about how I'm handling the smaller models. I'm not wild about using enamels (especially thinned with lacquer), as I spray indoors. I use a breathing filter, and spray near an open window with an extraction fan, but it still stinks up the office. I'm also not sure how to best tackle paint jar and airbrush cleanup, so I'm all ears regarding suggestions on best practices. Stronger paint certainly sounds like something that might help the issue. The use of dowels and other hands-off handling aides is interesting to me. I'll need to explore that some more. Lots to think about. |
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----------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from beautiful Maryland, Ralph K. | |
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| Greenshirt | Oct 27 2016, 03:39 PM Post #9 |
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Tim Holland, Southern MD - USA
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Interesting. Applying best practice to all subjects regardless of size or theme should achieve equal results across the kits. Skewing of the results means there is some sort of common anomaly unique to either the successes or the failures. What are the variables? In my case, it's decals. Great finish, very consistent, but decal stage at end always leaves me wanting. I'm working it...practice, practice, practice. Handling. I don't use gloves, don't do anything "special" regardless of subject. I doubt I follow any best practice that I'm aware of. I use various acrylics and occasionally enamels. One thing I do, but only because of my time management (too much going on) is I rarely spend more than an hour in the "room". But I do spend that hour daily. I also have 5-8 kits "on the go" all the time so that I can do something, set the kit down to let it set/dry/cure and work on another. Keeps the hour "full". Result: Paints fully cure. Bits and joints dry very solid. I suspect that's why in handling I rarely have a problem. Step away from the table for a week. Drink less coffee/tea/soda. Tim |
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Tim Holland I'm a "green shirt" because I work on the carrier's flight deck and maintain US Navy aircraft. Safe sorties are my life so we can be anywhere, anytime -- from the Sea. http://greenshirt-modeler.blogspot.com/ | |
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| RexTN | Oct 27 2016, 04:19 PM Post #10 |
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Accidental CAG
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Tim, I didn't think of that. I, like you, work on multiple kits at a time. And I also can't spend hours at a time at the bench. I never considered that all my models are accidentally getting tons of drying and cement setting up time, because of the way they sit around in the "dust box" so long before any certain one is finished. But I do use gloves once the paint starts flying. I also use tough clears like Aeromaster, Polly Scale and Alclad Aqua. My models get moved a lot, to make room for newly finished ones. Otherwise, I would have one model 4 or 5 feet from another on my shelves, if I put them up in their "final spots" in the display shelves. (there would be a lotttt of room between VF-14 and VF-111, lol) I never thought of the combo of tough clears and lots of drying time adding durability. A question for the "build one at a time, then move on guys." Do you have a lot of downtime while waiting for that model to dry and set up? Or is that downtime built into your day already, anyway? |
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yep, one of each USN squadron http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/ http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx | |
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| Timmay! | Oct 27 2016, 05:08 PM Post #11 |
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Long Live The Twelve
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Rex, do you mean there are people out there that actually build models one at a time? I thought people built or at least worked on at least 20 or 30 at a time. Timmay!
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Tim Treadway Everything in a warzone is a target. Don't think so? Stand up. 12 | |
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| Greenshirt | Oct 27 2016, 05:47 PM Post #12 |
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Tim Holland, Southern MD - USA
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Haha Timmay! If you count the open kit boxes I play with before I start the build...well, I'm over 30 at any moment. Tim |
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Tim Holland I'm a "green shirt" because I work on the carrier's flight deck and maintain US Navy aircraft. Safe sorties are my life so we can be anywhere, anytime -- from the Sea. http://greenshirt-modeler.blogspot.com/ | |
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| InchHigh | Oct 27 2016, 05:51 PM Post #13 |
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It's a good day to build.
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Some do.
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Jeff Time spent modeling is not deducted from your lifespan. I spent most of my money on beer and women. The rest of it I just wasted. | |
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| Mark Schynert | Oct 27 2016, 06:44 PM Post #14 |
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Yeast
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Heaven forfend :o I've got seven going right now, and it's at least one too many. Fortunately, a couple are close to completion. Typically, I keep exactly six going at a time. That's about all the space i have to work with on the bench. On the rare occasions I've tried to concentrate on one, everything slows down horribly. I find that almost every kit presents a novel problem of some sort, and I'm best off if I stand back and consider alternatives, rather than bull ahead. But with only one going, the temptation to drive through typically leads to a setback, and then I'm stuck with an unfun recovery, and the incentive to spend time at the bench drops off to almost nothing. |
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| woody | Oct 27 2016, 09:27 PM Post #15 |
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Hero
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As others have said it sounds like a paint adhesion issue. I have found that an enamel primer helps with adhesion on the rare occasion that I use acrylics. I have also been told that hitting acrylic paint with a hairdryer helps harden it. Some peoples skin oils are more corrosive than others(ask me how I know). Using photo processors cotton gloves may help if you think this might be an issue, although I doubt it since it doesn't seem to be an across the board issue. As far as cleaning the airbrush, lacquer thinner and a Harbor Freight airbrush cleaning station. Nothing gets all the gunk out like lacquer thinner and the cleaning station helps keep it under control. The Harbor Freight cleaning station is made better and much less expensive than the Testors/Aztec version. Also, Vallejo's 099 airbrush cleaner works better than any other dedicated acrylic cleaner I've tried. I find a paint cup is easier to clean than a bottle but that might just be me. Cheers, Woody |
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Timmay!
7:22 PM Jul 11