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| Are modelers getting a lot better?; Your thoughts welcome | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 14 2017, 02:28 PM (1,126 Views) | |
| dixieflyer | Aug 15 2017, 10:36 PM Post #16 |
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Hero
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If I may, is there not a flip side to this? With the advent of the widespread dissemination* of techniques, products, etc. to improve our hobby, has the same dissemination* of great modeling results, while on one hand inspiring, not also introduced some intimidation for sharing one's modeling results, especially among those of us that are at best mediocre? I know I drank in all I could from the late 90's and onward in the effort to learn all I could to reproduce a "masterpiece". I've got at least a half dozen builds stalled and relegated to the "shelf of shame" because in my efforts to make them just that much better I've either screwed the kit up or hit a brick wall in terms of talent or technique to overcome a perceived fault in the kit or my work. Thoughts? Warren * I used that fancy word twice because it's definitely a Dollar Store word. Bet it cost me at least seventy-five cents. :rolleyes:
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| "History is the lie we all agree upon." | |
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| ww2nut | Aug 16 2017, 12:00 AM Post #17 |
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Hero
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Good question, If I use my own models and Nationals performance as an example, the answer is clearly yes. My models have improved dramatically over the last 10 years, and kits I took a first place with in 2005, would not even place today. The next question is why. For our scale, the entries are much more numerous than 10 years ago, even exceeding 1/48th scale in some cases, but trying to find one reason for all the quality improvement is a fools errand. As has been said here, the kit quality has improved dramatically, the number of subjects increased exponentially, (with some truly obscure subjects being treated very well), and the resources available to improve one's models are more plentiful every year. New tools, paints, airbrushes, detail parts, online forums and better kits are just a few reasons. I know my own builds must continue to improve to be competitive at Nationals each year, but I'm ok with that. It forces me to take some chances, try new ideas, and continue to improve my techniques. Having said all this, I care less and less where my entries place at Nationals these days, I'm more interested in my own goals, improving over what I have done previously, and making sure the fun never goes out of the hobby for me. Beginner or advanced, participate in this hobby because it's an enjoyable use of your time and resources, don't get bogged down worrying about whether your models are worthy of awards. The big payback is the knowledge that you did your best, will continue to improve as you gain experience, and will gain new knowledge of the subjects you build. My 2 cents, Joe |
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| RexTN | Aug 16 2017, 12:27 AM Post #18 |
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Accidental CAG
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Reading the talk about the Nationals chances of winning made me realize something about my own models. Because of my build style,,,,my models that would not have placed at the Nats in 1969, wouldn't place in 2018 if I built them again for that contest. But I don't do the "evolution of techniques and skills" thing that gets talked about as the reason that models are built. I build them the same way as I use open end wrenches,,,,,,,I learned how, practiced at it,,,,,,,,and now that I have it down, I just build with the tools. Yes, kits are better, there are more tools and materials. But I don't need or want 25 different ways of filling seams,,,,,,,I just want the seams filled, and know how to do that. I don't see "better and better" models at the shows,,,,,,I see models getting farther and farther away from what they were intended to be when they were invented. |
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yep, one of each USN squadron http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/ http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx | |
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| dknights | Aug 16 2017, 02:01 AM Post #19 |
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The court of LAST RESORT!
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Love reading all this input. I do think the internet and new tools and better kits all play a part in the improvement in quality of models at the nationals. What I found particularly fascinating was not the quality of winners, but rather the quality of the also rans. In years past there were clear quality differences between the best and the worst in most categories. This year, that wasn't very true in most categories. It gives me hope that one day I'll build a good model.
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David M. Knights Fortes fortuna adiuvat 14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51 15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine 16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane. 17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, 18 Finished: NONE The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40 Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11 | |
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| Greenshirt | Aug 16 2017, 03:22 PM Post #20 |
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Tim Holland, Southern MD - USA
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Every model I finish is a good model. Quality of finish be damned.
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Tim Holland I'm a "green shirt" because I work on the carrier's flight deck and maintain US Navy aircraft. Safe sorties are my life so we can be anywhere, anytime -- from the Sea. http://greenshirt-modeler.blogspot.com/ | |
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| Mark Schynert | Aug 16 2017, 05:30 PM Post #21 |
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Yeast
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There's only a flip side if you allow it. We each control how we react to the possibilities, and that includes creating obligations for ourselves to extend beyond our comfort zones. It's how a lot of us learn, and also gets carried too far sometimes, which certainly accounts for a lot of 'failures' on our collective shelves of doom. I just don't care any more about that issue. I've got a few models that have (and probably will continue indefinitely) to languish incomplete, but not tossed/stripped for parts/whatever. Life's too short to get anguished about a hobby failure or two or five with plastic toy bits. I move on to other things. That's one advantage to a large stash--there's always something else to build. |
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| dixieflyer | Aug 17 2017, 10:47 PM Post #22 |
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Hero
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LOL! You and me both brother! Warren |
| "History is the lie we all agree upon." | |
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| Flyboy72nd | Aug 18 2017, 12:03 PM Post #23 |
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Hero
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I think we all have to admit the advances in technology have made huge changes in our hobby! Remember back to the early days in etch we replaced flat chunky pieces of plastic with thinner, flat, more realistic pieces of brass! :o Look at the etch today, colour :o , relief etching :o , and my absolute fav, really tiny pieces!!! Resin molds are much better, plastic molds are a LOT better, some kits (a lot now) include etch frets, CAD design, computer cut molds, etc. etc! Now we enter the 'new age' on models - 3D printing!!! ![]() The little guy above is 72nd and pretty nice for a one piece mold, the pic is a real close up!!! Where no modeller has gone before!!!! |
![]() Building something Canadian, Eh! Graham; to avoid confusion M., from Canada's Capital!! | |
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| Aaron_w | Aug 18 2017, 05:18 PM Post #24 |
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Toady
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Yes, the aftermarket has seen huge improvement even in the relatively short time I've been paying attention. Some of the resin parts/ kits available now rival good plastic kits, and the options for aftermarket is huge with decals, PE, resin and now 3d printing. Options for rigging has also grown, so many more options than fishing line and sewing thread. There are also a lot more DIY aftermarket options available, decal paper allows anybody willing to spend the time to learn how to create their own decals. PE kits, resin casting supplies, mini-lathes / mills, stencil cutters (Cricut / Silhouette) and companies like Shapeways offering on demand 3d printing open up so many possibilities. Home 3d printers are starting to reach a price that is within the reach of a serious hobbyist. Really pretty amazing what we have available today. |
| Aaron Woods | |
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| softscience | Aug 22 2017, 05:00 PM Post #25 |
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Hero
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All of this is true, but I also wonder if the modeling community is getting less creative. Most "super detailing" these days, involves dropping in some ready made resin or PE bits. Scratchbuilding used to require a great deal of ingenuity, which I simply don't see anymore. Just look at an FSM article from the 1980s, where there are pages and pages of templates, descriptions of how to turn a block of balsa and some safety pins into a scale replica of a machine gun (or whatever), and other really creative tips. As for finishing techniques - while they've certainly become far more sophisticated - also show little independent thinking and artistic experimentation. If you doubt me then witness the kerfuffle that occurred when somebody from a certain modeling community dared show off a picture of an airplane that wasn't painted using the now trendy "black basing" method. Or go back 10 years, and see how one would be considered simplistic if they didn't preshade, 10 years earlier still, and you would be called a dolt if you didnt wash and drybrush armor. :rolleyes: |
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----------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from beautiful Maryland, Ralph K. | |
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| Moggy | Aug 22 2017, 07:20 PM Post #26 |
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Advanced Member
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I don't see the point of decrying the means to a more detailed model at all. Many modellers use what's available today to improve their models - the use of which demands skills that do not come easily and have to be developed... On the way one quickly develops an eye for detailing that leads to replacing some of the aftermarket with one's own details. This usually comes about mainly because of two reasons: when researching the subject at hand the modeller starts to discover failings in the aftermarket - usually entailing not representing the original correctly and/or scale or material issues. This allows (and indeed spurs) personal solutions that both increase the modeller's pleasure and bolsters their self-confidence, and thus sends them on further into the creative self-detailing way. The same goes for painting techniques. Once bitten by the enhanced painting bug it usually develops into a personal style to fit his/hers personal vision of his/hers model - again. Modelling is a hobby - thus about pleasure and self-fullfilment. Never forget that ![]() BTW I still consult my old issues of several modelling mags - FSM is one of them. ![]() Cheers, Moggy |
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Cheers, Moggy WIP: HAS F-86D RDAF, HAS Lockheed P2V-7 Neptune ANA, ITA G.222 AE-260 Argentina, SH Meteor Mk.4, AX Bristol Freighter Mk.1 FAA | |
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| softscience | Aug 22 2017, 08:38 PM Post #27 |
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Hero
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Sorry, I did not intend to decry anybody. I'm not saying that what is done today doesn't require skill. Its just more homogeneous than things used to be. As an example, I recall somebody using a pill bottle and strip styrene to build the interior of the raised wing well on a Monogram F-8. That is pretty darned brilliant! A more contemporary modeler would purchase the AirduaBoost resin piece, and the main skill in use would be the super precise sanding required to carefully shape the plastic to about a micron's width in order for the stupid thing to fit. Not an easy thing to do, at all. And no. Im not being sarcastic. All that said, I do find the craftiness of the scratch builders to be more impressive than that of the aftermarket user. That isn't to decry the latter. |
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----------------------------------------------------------- Greetings from beautiful Maryland, Ralph K. | |
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| Mark Schynert | Aug 22 2017, 08:59 PM Post #28 |
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Yeast
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There will always be room for craftiness, but creativity is a state of mind that doesn't always come in the modeler's mental package. I try to be creative as often as possible. The results are mixed And those AM cockpit inserts or what have you aren't likely to show up for 1'72 B-18s. AM flourishes with mainstream interests. So, for those who care, there's always going to be room for creativity, particularly where the subject is not mainstream.
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| dknights | Aug 23 2017, 01:08 AM Post #29 |
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The court of LAST RESORT!
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I actually had this complaint when Verlinden first came on the scene many years ago. Before Verlinden, dioramas had a lot of interesting scratchbuilt items. After Verlinden, we went thru a period where every diorama was an exercise in pouring the items in the latest verlinden doodads all over a diorama. That eventually went away, but for a bit it did hurt the creativeness in dioramas. I do think that using aftermarket does lead eventually to many modelers going the extra mile and improving even that. |
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David M. Knights Fortes fortuna adiuvat 14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51 15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine 16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane. 17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, 18 Finished: NONE The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40 Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11 | |
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| Pyran | Aug 23 2017, 05:11 AM Post #30 |
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Advanced Member
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I agree that aftermarket is stifling creativity in the same way that modern technology is stifling our ingenuity to survive like our ancestors did 100+ years ago. Without modern machines, our ancestors were pretty crafty and resourceful in the most mundane of activities, like sourcing food or washing our clothes. However, in its place, we have had to develop other skills. Its the same way with aftermarket. We can feel nostalgic, but for most of us, the choice is easy- there is no going back to the old days and we'll just need to keep adapting our skills. If you are a purist and would like to focus solely on ingenuity and basic modeling skills, there is a refuge out there. Its called figure modeling. There definitely isn't as much aftermarket for 54mm-120mm figures and people are still pretty ingenious in coming up with materials for groundwork, dioramas, etc. Aside from that, its all about the assembly and painting. Heck, even the kits themselves don't seem to get outdated. Most airplane kits from the 80s are ludicrous compared to modern kits but there are some figure sculpts from the 80s that have never been surpassed. |
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And those AM cockpit inserts or what have you aren't likely to show up for 1'72 B-18s. AM flourishes with mainstream interests. So, for those who care, there's always going to be room for creativity, particularly where the subject is not mainstream.
12:55 AM Jul 11