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Matt varnish over acrylic
Topic Started: Sep 24 2017, 04:28 PM (309 Views)
jvenables
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Hawk
[ * ]
My paint collection is almost exclusively lacquers (Mr Color) and enamels (Tamiya & Model Master). I have a very small selection of acrylics in primary colours that I use only for fine details such as cockpit knobs, levers and switches. Given the increasing difficulty in transporting the more volatile paints, I have been thinking of trying some acrylics for external colours.

Admittedly, I don't pay much attention to what is on the market in the acrylic paint ranges but I don't think I have ever seen an acrylic matt top coat.

What is out there and what do others modellers recommend? I know there are "matt base" additives but I am specifically wondering about a final coat matt varnish.

Cheers.
James from Brisbane, Australia
Now living in Laos

Nil illegitimi carborundum
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J.C. Bahr
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Hero
[ * ]
I've been using Delta Ceramcoat Matte Interior Varnish, along with their Satin and have been happy with the results. Should be easily found at a Hobby Lobby if you have one near you:

Posted Image
J.C. Bahr

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" - Leonard Nimoy
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Chuck1945
Hero
[ * ]
Tamiya does a Flat Base (X-21) and also a Clear Flat (XF-86), both in their bottle, acrylic range. The flat base has to be added to another paint to give a flat appearance when dry, it cant be used by itself
Chuck
Eastern WA, USA
Finished 2018:
Eduard Spitfire IXc, VIII, Monogram/Starfighter BFC-2
On the active bench:
Eduard Bf 110C, Hasegawa B-24D, SH P-40E
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Scott Hemsley
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Beast
[ * ]
I've been using Model Master's (acrylic) clears for years ... flat, semi-gloss & gloss, over all my paints, whether they be acrylic, enamel or the odd lacquer (although I don't use them much any more). Unlike the few enamel and even lacquer* clears I've used in my early modelling days, the acrylic clears don't yellow with age. I recall once being told that the enamel and lacquer clears are actually Urethane and Varethane-based, although right now I can't remember which was which.

*Floquil, to be exact ... back in the days when they actually were lacquer paints - prior to Testor's buying them out.

Scott
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Aaron_w
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Toady
[ * ]
Microscale has gloss, satin and matte finishes as well.

I use Future for gloss, but do use both the Microscale and Model Master satin and flat / matte finishes.


I have some of those craft store paints, but never even thought to look for clear coats.
Aaron Woods
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jvenables
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Hawk
[ * ]
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like there are plenty of options out there to choose from.

I am very reluctant to change from lacquers to acrylics, as the former are just such fantastic paints to use. Until about 15 years ago I had always used enamels and initially started using Mr Color lacquers simply because they are the only hobby paints I could buy locally (albeit across the border in Thailand - there are no hobby stores here in Laos) but loved them from the first time I used them: beautifully fine pigments, excellent coverage & opacity, fast drying, very durable and any errors can simply be wiped off with a cloth or tissue dampened with thinners, with no risk of damage to the plastic.

But there are two big drawbacks with the lacquers:

Firstly because they are more volatile, they are difficult to use and store here in the tropics. Even a closed bottle will thicken in storage and I have to assume that the solvent carrier must slowly evaporate via the thread on the bottle. I have to go through the entire paint collection every 9-12 months and add a little Gunze "Replenishing Agent".

The second issue is the aforementioned shipping problem. Since I can't just to down to my LHS and buy a new bottle, I need to monitor my paint stocks fairly carefully and plan ahead for what I may need. Mail order is my best friend but Mr Color paints need to be sent via surface mail, as apparently a 10ml bottle of hobby paint is too dangerous to send on a cargo aircraft that is loaded with thousands of litres of highly flammable jet fuel, hydraulic oil, other lubricants, etc.

I assume that aqueous acrylics have no such travel ban (can anyone confirm?) and may be easier/faster to obtain. I have thus been thinking that I should trial some acrylics as a possible future replacement for my hobby paint stocks.

James from Brisbane, Australia
Now living in Laos

Nil illegitimi carborundum
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Chuck1945
Hero
[ * ]
jvenables,Sep 24 2017
06:54 PM
...
I assume that aqueous acrylics have no such travel ban (can anyone confirm?) and may be easier/faster to obtain. I have thus been thinking that I should trial some acrylics as a possible future replacement for my hobby paint stocks.

I bought some Gunze Aquous paints from a Hong Kong eshop a couple times after Gunze dropped distribution to the US. My orders came air even though rhw supplier's website advised surface shipment only :o Now I can get Mr Color from Sprue Bros here and Mr Paint (both solvent acrylic lacquers) here in the US also. Sprue Bros appears to ship all paints surface only while the Mr Paint is faster so I am assuming some air transport is involved. While not a definitive answer, you cansee that it appears to vary
Chuck
Eastern WA, USA
Finished 2018:
Eduard Spitfire IXc, VIII, Monogram/Starfighter BFC-2
On the active bench:
Eduard Bf 110C, Hasegawa B-24D, SH P-40E
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Bolie97
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Careful with your terms. Mr Color (the best model paint there is) is actually an acrylic. It's an acrylic lacquer. Pexiglass canopies on real planes are acrylic. There are acrylic enamels, acrylic lacquers and acrylic aqueous, which is what you mean. Everybody calls aqueous paints acrylic, even though they may or may not be.

Jim Johnson
72nd member of 72 scale aircraft
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Chuck1945
Hero
[ * ]
Bolie97,Sep 25 2017
05:12 PM
Careful with your terms. Mr Color (the best model paint there is) is actually an acrylic. It's an acrylic lacquer. Pexiglass canopies on real planes are acrylic. There are acrylic enamels, acrylic lacquers and acrylic aqueous, which is what you mean. Everybody calls aqueous paints acrylic, even though they may or may not be.

Jim Johnson
72nd member of 72 scale aircraft

That's what I said, Mr Color is an acrylic lacquer, so is Mr Paint.
Chuck
Eastern WA, USA
Finished 2018:
Eduard Spitfire IXc, VIII, Monogram/Starfighter BFC-2
On the active bench:
Eduard Bf 110C, Hasegawa B-24D, SH P-40E
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RexTN
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Accidental CAG
[ * ]
I agree Chuck.

While there are certainly Regs for shipping paints, some people are getting away with shipping things that they are not supposed to by air.

Our local post office has a new hazardous material poster up (finally.) It clearly says that we can ship non-solvent based paints by air, but, not anything with solvents in it.

But, then I got a shipment of Mr Paint (now MRP) so quickly from Slovakia that it just had to be via air, assuming that a container should have taken longer than one from England.

(for those that don't understand how dangerous shipping paints is, it is because they can't x-ray or visually inspect paint in tins, assuring that it is actually paint,,,,,they aren't afraid of 1/2 oz of paint being "dangerous" to the aircraft,,,,,,,,,the writer of the Regs didn't understand that bottles of Aqueous Acrylic getting broken is just as damaging to other's luggage as Enamels or Lacquers are,,,,,,,,and for anyone that thinks about it,,,,even being able to see inside the Aqueous paint bottles doesn't mean we are actually seeing paint,,,,but, shrug, that's the Reg)
yep, one of each USN squadron

http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/
http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx
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dknights
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The court of LAST RESORT!
[ * ]
Chuck1945,Sep 24 2017
11:19 PM
jvenables,Sep 24 2017
06:54 PM
...
I assume that aqueous acrylics have no such travel ban (can anyone confirm?) and may be easier/faster to obtain. I have thus been thinking that I should trial some acrylics as a possible future replacement for my hobby paint stocks.

I bought some Gunze Aquous paints from a Hong Kong eshop a couple times after Gunze dropped distribution to the US. My orders came air even though rhw supplier's website advised surface shipment only :o Now I can get Mr Color from Sprue Bros here and Mr Paint (both solvent acrylic lacquers) here in the US also. Sprue Bros appears to ship all paints surface only while the Mr Paint is faster so I am assuming some air transport is involved. While not a definitive answer, you cansee that it appears to vary

Where do you get the Mr. Paint in the US?
David M. Knights
Fortes fortuna adiuvat

14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51
15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine
16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane.
17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, Belcher SS-4, Italeri AB41, PLAN Type 039A (not 72nd scale)
18 Finished: NONE
The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40
Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11
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jvenables
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Hawk
[ * ]
Quote:
 
Careful with your terms. Mr Color (the best model paint there is) is actually an acrylic. It's an acrylic lacquer. Pexiglass canopies on real planes are acrylic. There are acrylic enamels, acrylic lacquers and acrylic aqueous, which is what you mean. Everybody calls aqueous paints acrylic, even though they may or may not be

I think we all realise this. The term "acrylic" merely categorises the substance on the basis of its chemistry. An acrylic substance simply means they contain a large proportion of one or more compounds derived from acrylic acid. I studied both physical and organic chemistry as electives at university but it was so long ago that I can't recall exactly what compounds actually come from acrylic acid nor how they are used.

As consumers and users of these products we tend to use our own broad, simple categories and most of us refer to acrylic lacquers as "lacquers" and aqueous paints as "acrylics". These terms have been fairly standard in the modelling world for decades now.

Quote:
 
Our local post office has a new hazardous material poster up (finally.) It clearly says that we can ship non-solvent based paints by air, but, not anything with solvents in it

That's a bit ambiguous. Strictly speaking, even aqueous paints contain solvents, even if the primary solvent is, in fact, water! Maybe it is this ambiguity that suppliers apply to bending the rules and sending flammables by air.
James from Brisbane, Australia
Now living in Laos

Nil illegitimi carborundum
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Chuck1945
Hero
[ * ]
dknights,Sep 25 2017
07:51 PM

Where do you get the Mr. Paint in the US?

I got mine from Hobbyworld USAhttp://www.hobbyworld-usa.com/Store/index....roller=category
Chuck
Eastern WA, USA
Finished 2018:
Eduard Spitfire IXc, VIII, Monogram/Starfighter BFC-2
On the active bench:
Eduard Bf 110C, Hasegawa B-24D, SH P-40E
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RexTN
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Accidental CAG
[ * ]
JV, I am assuming that the people that make up things like those charts haven't studied chemistry very much, even at the basic level that I have. (high school and college, in pursuit of a different major)

A true chemist would probably be amused (or shocked) reading almost anything posted by such people on walls.

A little test I run by any "almost new friend" is the the little Willy joke*, and the Universal Solvent joke**,,,,,I am very pleased when I see that they "got" one or both of those.

*Alas for little Willy, we'll not see Willy more
for what he thought was H2O, was H2SO4.

**"great news sir, we finally invented a Universal Solvent, let me show it to you,,,,,,,,hmmm, where is it?, it was in this glass jar a minute ago"
yep, one of each USN squadron

http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/
http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx
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