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| A decal question, old school methods | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 24 2017, 05:14 PM (539 Views) | |
| Aaron_w | Sep 24 2017, 05:14 PM Post #1 |
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Toady
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So this is mostly directed at some of the (ahem), "vintage" members here. I ran across this comment on another site of which I am not a member, but it briefly mentions how people made decals in the pre-enlightenment (internet) period. ![]()
Unfortunately this is from a 7 year old thread and "Wurger" has not yet replied regarding his methods. So a couple of things, "gummed" paper. I assume this is simply a precursor to our present waterslide decal paper? I see no reason one could not draw / paint directly onto decal paper although finding a cooperative medium would probably involve a fair amount of trial and error. Just figuring out whether to use inkjet or laser paper could impact success. So have any of you done this, or still do it that could comment on materials and methods used? |
| Aaron Woods | |
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| dixieflyer | Sep 24 2017, 07:36 PM Post #2 |
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Hero
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Aaron, I'd be interested in this too, especially what paints, etc. would work well. I have some Americal-Gryphon decals that came up a little short on some serials and other markings, and I'd like to "fill them out" with black paint, etc. Warren |
| "History is the lie we all agree upon." | |
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| Graham Boak | Sep 24 2017, 09:19 PM Post #3 |
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Hero
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No, gummed paper was just that, usually brown, and used as parcel tape. Nowadays you would certainly be better off using blank transfer sheets. Any paint would do - I've used enamels but I don't see why acrylics wouldn't work. or you could get truly modern and prepare them on a computer. As I understand it, the main problems are be the stability of the ink over time and the inability to print white. You could always use white transfer sheets rather than blank ones. |
| Lancashire, UK | |
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| Aaron_w | Sep 25 2017, 12:10 AM Post #4 |
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Toady
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I've done quite a few DIY decals on the computer. I was mostly just curious about other methods used. I'm not a fan of the white decal film, but I have been considering using a Silhouette cutter to make a masking template so I could paint a base color on decal film then put a second color decal over the top of it. |
| Aaron Woods | |
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| jvenables | Sep 25 2017, 02:53 AM Post #5 |
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Hawk
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OK, I am delving into the deep, dark recesses of the ol' grey matter here, but the process is essentially this: Firstly, if you can track down an old publication from the late 1970's or early 1980's called "Model Colour", it includes a very detailed description of the method. "Model Colour" was a two-part special from "Scale Models" magazine. I have both magazines but they are in a storage box about 9,000 km away so I can't scan & send it to you just now. Secondly, I should say that I have never heard of the gummed paper method. I would think however, that this would result in a home-made self adhesive sticker rather than anything approximating a home made water-slide decal. For the old-school decal technique, you can use a hand drawn picture or a photo cut from a magazine page. I see no reason why a drawing or photo laser printed onto plain paper would not work too. A few coats of gloss varnish are brush-painted over the picture/photo to build up a water-resistant film. Possibly Microscale decal film could be used, but it wasn't available back then. Once this film has dried, you cut around the picture/photo as closely as possible and then soak it in water for an hour or so. Then, with the picture/photo laying face down, you slowly and carefully scrape away the paper (using something like an old toothbrush). What remains is a thin film onto which the colour pigments from the picture/photo have been retained. It can be attached to the model using diluted PVA glue. It is a rough and dodgy method with no guarantee of good results, but it does work well sometimes.The quality of results naturally depends upon the quality of the original picture/photo used and the paper onto which it is drawn/printed. The other old method of hand drawing markings onto decal film is one that I have used from time to time with mixed (mostly good) results. The first time I tried this, I needed some fuselage squadron codes that were not available in the correct form and colour that I needed, so I hand drew (I had a very steady hand back in those days) a thin outline of the codes onto a piece of paper then copied it onto decal film through a photocopier; plain paper copiers were new technology back then but laser printers were still unheard of. Using a very fine brush, I then carefully went over and filled in the outline with paint. As I recall, it was far from perfect but it was my only option at the time.
Back in those days, there was no dedicated inkjet or laser decal film so it wasn't a concern. But just thinking about this query now, I cannot see why either could not be used. I really have no idea of the difference between inkjet and laser decal film in terms of texture and chemistry but I imagine the laser decal film would probably be a tad more durable and thus best to use. |
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James from Brisbane, Australia Now living in Laos Nil illegitimi carborundum | |
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| dknights | Sep 25 2017, 01:26 PM Post #6 |
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The court of LAST RESORT!
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Isn't technology wonderful. We're living in the golden days of modeling, guys! |
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David M. Knights Fortes fortuna adiuvat 14 Finished: Special Armor V-2, Airfix P-51 15 Finished: SBS Gladiator engine 16 Finished: Brengun C2 Wasserfall, Merit SS-N-2 Styx, World's smallest diorama, Airfix Hurricane. 17 Finished: Japanese Carrier Deck, 18 Finished: NONE The bench:Platz T-33, Trump. T-34/85, Meng F-106, Airfix P-51 #2, Airfix P-40 Revell MiG-21F-13, Ace Citroen V-11 | |
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| peebeep | Sep 25 2017, 03:56 PM Post #7 |
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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Paint straight onto clear decal film with either enamel or acrylic media, there is not usually any problem with opacity. Invest in good brushes! Inkjet inks are designed to be printed over white, they are not opaque (unless you have trick inkjet inks and a trick printer). Black works fine from inkjet printing, but unless you're applying the output over a white V-Bomber (for example), other colours will be washed out. ALPS printing used to be the best way to go, but the hardware is very scarce these days. You can buy off-the-shelf inkjet printers that will print white, but these are mostly top end, so unless you're prepared to shell out big bucks it's not an option. |
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www.locate-and-cement.com Locate and Cement website RevellAtions Bring me my chariot of fire Paul Brown, Chelmsford, UK
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| Scott Hemsley | Sep 25 2017, 07:48 PM Post #8 |
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Beast
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I'd like to address 2 points with this; Aaron_w; Yes, the 'gummed paper' method worked exactly as described by others and was applied like a waterslide decal. I was priviledged to witness this back in rhe day when Frog-Penguin kits still appeared in the collections of those older than I. Depending on the hand that painted the individual markings, the results were indistinguishable from a 'regular' kit's decals. Second point regarding a statement by peebeep. True ... Inkjet images by themselves, are on the translucent side. However when there is no visible white in the desired image, simply print multiple images and overlay with 1 or 2 additional images to get a solid decal. My (admittedly limited) experience on camouflaged aircraft has shown me that usually an overlay of 2 images in total, will get a 'solid' result. Of course, when I did my overall white UN marked DHC Otter, I didn't need to overlay the red UN titles. The black 6" fuselage serial of '315' is overlaid by one other layer to get a solid black serial. ![]() No overlay needed here, but if these same titles appeared on a sprayed aluminum lacquer finish (as it did prior to overall white being adopted as a default finish by the UN), I would overlay them. Printing on a white decal sheet and cutting out each letter would've been a nightmare, at least for me. ![]() Scott |
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| RexTN | Sep 25 2017, 08:00 PM Post #9 |
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Accidental CAG
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There is one more way to make your own markings. I use it for small items that I need, but no one makes decals for. It is not "old-school", though, it takes advantage of modern products. Use a Laser decal paper, clear or white. (clear preferred) using a Gel-pen (many different colors of those), or one of the paint pen ranges, such as Sharpie's Acrylic Paint pen,,,,,or even a paint brush, draw/paint your markings on the decal paper Let it dry thoroughly, I mean days,,,,,,,and then coat it with whatever you use for "decal rescue" on your bench,,,,,,,I use Microscale Liquid Decal Film, still available from the original companyhttp://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/mercha...ry_Code=FINPROD Always make spares, and then just apply them as you would any other Microscale decal. For something like those Red letters, you can print out the outline in grayscale on your decal paper, and then "paint" or "color them in" |
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yep, one of each USN squadron http://hangardeckview.blogspot.com/ http://z15.invisionfree.com/Hangar_Deck_Re...dex.php?act=idx | |
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| peebeep | Sep 25 2017, 09:32 PM Post #10 |
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Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
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I accept what you say Scott, but it's too tedious for me (I was born a lazy boy!) and adds another decal layer. Of course you could always cut white decal or spray white and the problem is solved. For basic shapes and roundels I think there's quite a strong case for masking and painting. I was given a cutting plotter a while ago, haven't yet figured out how to make it work. |
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www.locate-and-cement.com Locate and Cement website RevellAtions Bring me my chariot of fire Paul Brown, Chelmsford, UK
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| Scott Hemsley | Sep 25 2017, 11:57 PM Post #11 |
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Beast
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I confess that when it came to a particular aircraft, I've only printed my own stuff for the things that aren't covered in my decal stash. I've not had any reason to print on white thus far. I have done a bit of nose-art that required a small amount of white, and when playing around with it in MS Paint, I discovered that while white won't print on an inkjet, an very light off-white will. an for the size of that nose-art ... the 'stiff shirt-collar' and 'spats' appears as white to the casual observer. Scott |
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| Bolie97 | Sep 25 2017, 11:58 PM Post #12 |
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Advanced Member
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Another method I tried back in the day didn't work out well. Somewhere there was an add (maybe in 1001 Model Airplane Ideas) for a substance that would make instant decals from pictures. I ordered some and tried it. You painted it on a picture in a book or magazine. You let it dry and then peeled it off and presto, instant decal. Not so much. the biggest problem was that it lifted the ink off the page and the image could barely be seen. It was thick, so if you put 4 or five on top of each other you might have been able to barely see anything. But of course it might have been a sixteenth of an inch thick. Not to mention, the original image had to be the exact size you needed. Once and done! Jim Johnson 72nd member of 72nd Aircraft |
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| Aaron_w | Nov 12 2017, 05:05 AM Post #13 |
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Toady
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I've spent the last few days with a terrible cold with the result of many hours spent doing little more than nap and watch youtube. I ran across this video demonstration of making decals using a clear varnish and plain white paper. He only mentions it briefly towards the end, but if I understood correctly, a white based decal can be made by spraying white over the decal before application, so the image will be backed by the white. Seems a limited application, but possibly useful under certain conditions. It also reminded me of this post so I thought it a good place to post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRgepSBdJLs |
| Aaron Woods | |
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| Chuck1945 | Nov 12 2017, 10:45 PM Post #14 |
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Hero
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A related (somewhat) question. I want to use decal strips to replicate canopy framing, but most of the clear decal waterslide paper I see is advertised now for either ink-jet or laser printer application rather than painting. I am guessing ink-jet paper will work for painting the desired color? |
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Chuck Eastern WA, USA Finished 2018: Eduard Spitfire IXc, VIII, Monogram/Starfighter BFC-2 On the active bench: Eduard Bf 110C, Hasegawa B-24D, SH P-40E | |
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| kingofmen | Nov 13 2017, 12:59 AM Post #15 |
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Least
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It's like you've read my normal weekday agenda there. I have to fall in with the lazy crowd. If it can't be done with aftermarket decals then I just won't do it. I have put together serials from individual numbers and other easy customization, but that is about it. |
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Kevin Callahan Auburn WA USA Visit the re-energized 72 Land blog at http://72land.blogspot.com/ All hail 1:72! | |
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