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| Tru-Color Paint Seeking Assistance from Modelers | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 1 2017, 04:13 PM (397 Views) | |
| SkyKing | Oct 1 2017, 04:13 PM Post #1 |
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Advanced Member
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Tru-Color has been extensively expanding its range of paint in the wake of Testor's discontinuance of most of its camouflage colors. The following originally appeared on the IPMS-USA forum and is posted here with the permission of Tru-Color: Tru-Color Paint would like to enlist the help of modelers of WWI and Interwar period aircraft for the correct colors we should develop for this era. In particular we need help with accurate colors for French and German WWI Bi-Planes plus the linen colors for British WWI planes. Note that we already have 2 PC-10 Olive Drab colors and a PC-12 color for British aircraft. Between the wars, we believe planes' colors were made simpler without the need for camouflage colors. Is this a correct assumption ? Regardless of the answer, what colors were planes in this era painted ? Any help modelers can give us would be appreciated. If someone has data we can use for color matching, that would be great. We pride ourselves on making an accurate product and although other manufacturers may have colors in their line that are supposedly correct for this period, there is no guarantee they are right. If we get corroboration by experts in this field that xyz company makes the correct French Dope Yellow, then that is what we will match. If anyone is willing to help us, our color lab will make 2-6 samples of colors to send them to see what is the correct match for the target color we are trying to match in their opinion. If we are close it would help to know which sample is best and a suggestion on what to add to "tweak" the color in the right direction. Anyone care to join us in this venture ? Martin Cohen, PhD Tru-Color Paint P.O. Box 74524 Phoenix, AZ 85087-4524 714-488-9779 Tru-Color's web site:http://trucolorpaint.com/ |
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Michael McMurtrey IPMS-USA #1746 IPMS-Canada #1426 Carrollton, TX | |
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| tigermoth | Oct 1 2017, 05:39 PM Post #2 |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C.
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In my opinion, this research methodology seems fraught with pitfalls. Consensus, opinion, and memory are unreliable. Most modellers understand the complexity of this subject and, without proper resources and equipment or actual samples, we rely on published information authored by trusted sources. I do not mean to denigrate, in any way, the expertise and knowledge of our members, some of whom have first hand knowledge and others who have done actual research and published on the subject. It's always flattering to be asked one's opinion but I hope this does not lead down the path that gave us white Zeros and purple Rufes. Neither the loudest voices nor the most vociferous are necessarily correct. During the 40+ years that I spent in "colour production and management" in the printing industry, I managed to pick up just enough theory of colour and pigmentation, and a working knowledge of lighting, filters, and photography to know that I am not an expert. |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C. De gustibus non est disputandum. | |
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| dixieflyer | Oct 1 2017, 10:59 PM Post #3 |
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Hero
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I have a digital copy of "Project Butterfly". It's not base don opinion, but spectral and microscopic analysis of French WWI five color camouflage. For the German Luftstreitskrafte colors, I recommend them to look at what's been done by Drooling Bulldog. Their WWI German colors are made in accordance with the original chemical formulas, and I have to say they look great. I'll try to find my "Project Butterfly" materials this week. HTH, Warren |
| "History is the lie we all agree upon." | |
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| jvenables | Oct 2 2017, 02:43 AM Post #4 |
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Hawk
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Well said, sir! I subscribe to the theory that no scale model will ever be a perfect scale duplicate of the original subject and for this reason I am quite happy finishing my models in a manner that adequately satisfies my own interpretation of what the real subject may have looked like at a given nanosecond in time. Colour exactness is not something that ever appears on my radar, largely for the reasons you outlined. Everyone is different, of course, and some folk like to complete their models in a representation of a factory fresh finish, in which case colour preciseness is probably of greater concern... provided they are prepared to assume that every batch of paint has exactly the same colour, hue, saturation, etc. Good on Tru Color for being prepared to listen and absorb comment from the modelling community (their primary customer base) but you correctly point out that they will need to be very diligent to filter the facts from the BS. |
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James from Brisbane, Australia Now living in Laos Nil illegitimi carborundum | |
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| Harold K | Oct 2 2017, 02:05 PM Post #5 |
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Dweeb
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Dr. Cohen has tried this same approach on the ModelWarships forum I use; likely elsewhere, I suppose. Whatever he knows about paint, he seems to think he knows a lot about basing an introductory PR campaign on ingratiating himself with potential customers. |
| Box-shaker; hater of all things resin and photoetched. | |
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| keefr22 | Oct 3 2017, 09:43 AM Post #6 |
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Who, me?
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Exactly what I was thinking when reading the post. Surely any paint manufacturer wishing to produce 'accurate' (& I subscribe to the opinion there's really no such thing) paint colours for scale models would know where to at least start looking to research them - I'm absolutely with tigermoth on his comments about modellers opinions!
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Keith Ryder Swansea UK 'A plan is vital, but is never more than a basis for change' | |
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| SkyKing | Oct 4 2017, 03:33 PM Post #7 |
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What a bunch of hypocrites! On virtually every modeling-related forum I visit, I frequently find comments such as "If only Tamigawa had bothered to consult some knowledgeable modelers, they would have avoided the unfortunate dimensional errors with their new Messerwulf Bf 190 kit." So here we have a reputable manufacturer of hobby paint wanting to do right by us and asking for such advice, and they are criticized for it. I'll say it again: What a bunch of hypocrites! |
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Michael McMurtrey IPMS-USA #1746 IPMS-Canada #1426 Carrollton, TX | |
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| tigermoth | Oct 4 2017, 07:01 PM Post #8 |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C.
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I am resisting a strong urge to stoop to your level of unjustifiable name calling. If you can point out a single instance where I have said such drivel, then I will gladly accept the mantle of hypocrite which you have bestowed upon me. I'm not getting into a pissing contest with the likes of you, but I await your citation of when or where I bemoaned the fact that no one had asked my opinion. Please, I would really like to hear your explanation. Wayne Brinker. |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C. De gustibus non est disputandum. | |
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| keefr22 | Oct 4 2017, 07:29 PM Post #9 |
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Who, me?
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I started a reply in much the same vein Wayne. Twice!! But I really couldn't be bothered to finish eithe.... Keith <_< |
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Keith Ryder Swansea UK 'A plan is vital, but is never more than a basis for change' | |
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| SkyKing | Oct 4 2017, 09:20 PM Post #10 |
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Advanced Member
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Did I mention you by name? No, I did not. I was merely contrasting the justifiable complaints about kit manufacturers who do NOT solicit expert advice (and consequently turn out an inferior product) with the complaints, skepticism, and suspicion, exhibited by some, that this particular hobby manufacturer has actually solicited such advice in order to produce a product that meets modelers' needs, the subjectivity of color notwithstanding. This apparent difference in attitude I deem hypocritical. Clear enough? |
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Michael McMurtrey IPMS-USA #1746 IPMS-Canada #1426 Carrollton, TX | |
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| renscho | Oct 4 2017, 10:35 PM Post #11 |
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Administrator
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A lot of modeling can become no-win situations. I try to judge by what does no harm. In this case, I thought asking on a forum did no harm. If any has come of this or similar inquiries, I hope someone points it out to me. Take a breath... 'Tis but a small thing. :angry: |
| Robert E. Rensch | |
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| Mark Schynert | Oct 5 2017, 12:30 AM Post #12 |
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Yeast
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Well, it strikes me that there is a substantial difference between getting details (and particularly shapes) right on a styrene mold, which requires the manufacturer to interpret mostly two-dimensional data to create three-dimensional representation, and to make decisions about included detail, on the one hand, and correct color composition on the other. Now, you want to get people like Roy Sutherland or Dana Bell to help you with color, but the average modeler has little or no basis for getting colors right. Put down patches of the various interior greens on a white background without labels, and most modelers would be hard put to distinguish the Italian from the British from the German, and it's true for a variety of other colors. cutting across different nation's aircraft. I've seen people paint their PR Spitfires with intermediate sea blue (USN) when they didn't have PRU blue, and nobody not in the know said boo about it. Colors present narrow technical issues, and while there's a lot of controversy about them, not the least because of weathering, irregular application and photo exposure, the search for formulaic accuracy lends itself to better solutions than relying on opinions without provenance. Hypocrisy? it's a strong word. Out of place under the circumstances, I think. I understand the point, and I do think that asking for help is okay, but unless those who offer their input have some grounding in the subject that makes their observations reliable, the results are likely to be poor. |
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| tigermoth | Oct 5 2017, 01:25 AM Post #13 |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C.
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Take a breath... 'Tis but a small thing. You're right, 'tis but a trifling.. However, if I said that I did not resent being called a hypocrite.....then I would be one. Wayne. |
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Wayne Brinker, Langley B.C. De gustibus non est disputandum. | |
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| renscho | Oct 5 2017, 02:34 AM Post #14 |
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Administrator
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Fair enough, Wayne... |
| Robert E. Rensch | |
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| erussell | Oct 5 2017, 08:42 AM Post #15 |
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C'est
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I'm with the majority here. Opinions about colour (and indeed opinions about much of modelling) from the modelling community are no more than opinions. If they had put out a call for "acknowledged colour experts" I'd be only slightly more impressed as it would have shown they have done no research. I'm inclined to avoid products based on the lowest common denominator of so-called expertise. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh and it sort of sounds like they have good intentions but it looks like they have research methodology problems. |
| Ed Russell at www.redroomodels.com | |
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