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Harrow Trainer
Topic Started: May 8 2017, 07:26 PM (503 Views)
Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
http://www.72news.eu/2017/05/valom-handley...kii-boxart.html

Very nice too, but unlikely to be 24MU unless passing through. Probably one of the Bomber Gunnery schools. 7, 8 and 10 are listed with Harrow Mk.IIs.

There was a picture of a Heyford in a similar scheme posted on Britmodeller some years back, courtesy of a museum on the Isle of Man, although viewed from low down that one appeared all yellow.
Lancashire, UK
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Harold K
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Dweeb
[ * ]
Decisions, decisions ...

I'm a sucker for this scheme (did my Valom Hereford this way), now here I am thinking about it and I don't even have the kit yet!
Box-shaker; hater of all things resin and photoetched.
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keefr22
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Who, me?
[ * ]
Am I the only one seeing the image in 'black & white' - looks like a Coastal Command Harrow on my monitor...!!

Graham Boak,May 8 2017
08:26 PM


There was a picture of a Heyford in a similar scheme posted on Britmodeller some years back, courtesy of a museum on the Isle of Man, although viewed from low down that one appeared all yellow.


Is there any evidence of all yellow Heyfords Graham, I thought it had been decided by those that know that the 'yellow undersides' one was actually overall NIVO?

Keith
Keith Ryder
Swansea UK

'A plan is vital, but is never more than a basis for change'
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Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
No evidence at all for overall yellow - at this period the training scheme had yellow up the sides and the standard camouflage on top. It only appears as if it was overall because of the comparatively flat sides and top of the fuselage, so that the high demarcation line isn't visible when viewed from below - which is where most photos are taken from given the height of a Heyford. This was a common scheme on many types of training aircraft, particularly converted combat types such as Hinds and Audaxes. As befits a night-flying scheme (in the thinking of the time) Nivo is a darker colour, never appearing so light.

Coastal Command never operated any Harrows, and had they done so they'd have been gone by the time of the white/EDSG scheme. (Or white/TSS, for that matter.) Hampdens now, that's another matter, but again in training units. OTUs rather than schools, however.
Lancashire, UK
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keefr22
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Who, me?
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Graham Boak,May 8 2017
10:55 PM
No evidence at all for overall yellow - at this period the training scheme had yellow up the sides and the standard camouflage on top.  It only appears as if it was overall because of the comparatively flat sides and top of the fuselage, so that the high demarcation line isn't visible when viewed from below - which is where most photos are taken from given the height of a Heyford.  This was a common scheme on many types of training aircraft, particularly converted combat types such as Hinds and Audaxes.  As befits a night-flying scheme (in the thinking of the time) Nivo is a darker colour, never appearing so light.

Coastal Command never operated any Harrows, and had they done so they'd have been gone by the time of the white/EDSG scheme.  (Or white/TSS, for that matter.)  Hampdens now, that's another matter, but again in training units.  OTUs rather than schools, however.

Thanks Graham, I'd have been tempted by a yellow Heyford should evidence of such beasts actually existed. I am aware of the training scheme on other aircraft, but there seems to be strong reluctance amongst the 'experts' (whomsover they may be) to accept that trainer scheme Heyfords existed. Or so I've read....!

My comment about the C.C. scheme Harrow was completely flippant due to the website you linked too having posted a b&w picture of a scheme they stated had 'fantastic colours'!
Keith Ryder
Swansea UK

'A plan is vital, but is never more than a basis for change'
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Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
It was Ivor Ramsden of the Manx Aviation & Military Museum who posted the picture - a quick search didn't find it but did find a follow-up picture in what seems to be the same scheme. However I was searching for Manx Transport Museum, quite another organisation, and I'd been "told off" for doing that in the thread the search led to!

I don't recall the exchange following the original posting in quite the same polarised light as you: obviously it took some people by surprise (me too!) but is entirely logical. Until then people were scratching for evidence of Heyfords even in Temperate Land colours. The latest picture I'd seen of any Heyford showed one with unit codes being scrapped, still in Nivo.

I didn't think that you were being serious, but (understandably enough) not everyone understands the timing of all RAF camouflage changes. Or even a decent proportion thereof! I thought it best to clarify for anyone who might be mislead. Hey, you don't think that Valom are about to release a Harrow GR Mk.II, do you? (No.)

Talking of seeing photos, I'd love to see the one that Valom based their scheme on. Photos of the Harrow bombers are rare enough, and there are not many of the transports.
Lancashire, UK
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dogsbody
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Beast
[ * ]
Here's one:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205090513


Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
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Harold K
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Dweeb
[ * ]
Nice find Chris. Check the underwing codes in the photo and the box art Graham linked.
Box-shaker; hater of all things resin and photoetched.
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Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
Thanks Chris.
Lancashire, UK
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Dave Fleming
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Beast
[ * ]
There is a pic of the alleged 'Yellow' undersided Heyford in the IWM archive as well
IPMS UK Harrier SIG

http://harriersig.org.uk/
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dogsbody
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Beast
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Dave Fleming,May 30 2017
09:58 AM
There is a pic of the alleged 'Yellow' undersided Heyford in the IWM archive as well


I was just on the IWM website and didn't notice any " yellow " bellied Heyfords.


Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
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dogsbody
Member Avatar
Beast
[ * ]
This picture is from a short-lived magazine from the late 80"s. It looks like a yellow-bellied Heyford.

Posted Image

I realize that it's a crappy picture but it was from a larger image and to get it to a reasonable viewing size, on my old scanner, this it the result.

Posted Image



Chris
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"
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Graham Boak
Hero
[ * ]
Try here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...comment-2125449
Not IWM, true.
or this one: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...comment-2125449

For those who didn't see the threads originally.
Lancashire, UK
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