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Help with details of german rocket launchers; Enzian/Rheintochter details..??
Topic Started: Sep 30 2012, 03:11 AM (696 Views)
sdkfz251
Member
[ *  * ]
Hi,
I'm extremely keen to build a model in 1/72 of the Enzian launch ramp..I have (I think) done pretty well on the launch rail so far..although a few details elude me at the present time. The main area I wish to detail as far as possible is the base. I know from certain sources the base was actually a modified 88mm gun support,but how modified is the question. I know of the Planet model version being available,but I note it only has a standard 88mm support section above the cruciform base..In all the pictures I have seen(and there are to my knowledge very few of any good quality) the ramp support looks rather different to the 88mm version. Has anyone got or know of anywhere I can get detailed pictures or plans of the Enzian rocket ramp,support and cruciform base?
Also has anyone got any clear detailed pictures of the Rheintochter launch ramp and base..I'm under the understanding that the ramp and support were from another version of the 88mm flak family and also was modified..once again how much though? I have built the ramp as far as I can from researching the original Flak 41/88mm to try and recreate the equipment,but once again detailed plans and photos are very hard to find..if anyone could guide me to any information I would be very grateful.I doubt my attempts so far are very much as they should be sadly. For instance how was the Flak 41/88mm raised..was it hydraulically with pistons like the normal 88mm guns? These are maybe pedantic details,but I would like to do these rockets and launch equipment as well as I can.
I have already built a 1/72 model of the Natter launch tower..thankfully enough details can be found to make a pretty authentic looking replica.

Any help will be greatly appreciated:)

Steve in the USA
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woody
Hero
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Hi Steve, several years ago I built an Enzian on the launch rail. Like you, I found a serious lack of material on the launcher. I based mine on the drawings in Miranda and Mercado's book, Secret Wonder Weapons of the Third Reich. At this late date I can't remember which 8.8cm kit I used for the base, but it might have been Hasegawa. The end result is that using an 88 you can't get the rail to elevate much beyond horizontal. I suspect that the Enzian kit may be a little large and perhaps the 88 is a little small. However, to get the rail to elevate, the 88 mount would have to be MUCH larger. Since then the I've got the wonder of the internet and with more research I think I have found a solution. One of the mounts used by the 10.5cm Flak has a cruciform base like the 88 and it has an upper section that looks much like the "modified" upper section that the rail is mounted to in the well known left side photo of the Enzian on the rail. Since the 10.5cm mount seems to be larger than the 8.8cm mount, I think that would solve the elevation problem. Some time down the road I am going to scratch up a 10.5 mount for mine as it really irks me not to be able to point it up like it should be.
Cheers,
Woody
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sdkfz251
Member
[ *  * ]
Thank you for the very informative reply..I have looked very closely at the various Flak gun mounts especially the mount you have mentioned and I still have to say I'm not 100% convinced it was or is the mount you mention..it seems too long to me..the known picture of Enzian from the left side appears to me more square almost. I would like to know if the ramp was raised electrically or via the usual hydraulics used on the 88mm Flak gun. I could make the hydraulics quite easily to look the part. The height of the ramp at the back is very high to make room for the fin on the bottom of the rocket I assume. The ramp was high above the fixed mount anyway..which would account for the way the ramp could be raised almost vertically. I have the feeling the only standard part of the support under the rocket was the cruciform base which could have come from any of the Flak gun family..also I am thinking of the Centre of Gravity..if the ramp was too forward the mount might fall over especially as the weight of Enzian moved towards the top on launch. There has to be taken into account also what would be needed on the mount to actually prepare and launch Enzian. I see wires hanging down so unless there was an external firing system it would have been on the launch rail mount. What would you need on the actual mount that Enzian would need and not a Flak gun? It would maybe lead to working out any modifications..if any were carried out on the mount. I have seen a picture of Enzian being loaded on the ramp from above via a mobile crane. As for the mount? It remains elusive for sure..I really want to get on with it though..make a mock up in card and then plasticard..aluminium tube and plastic tube. As for the cruciform base we are blessed it is almost certainly that of a standard 88mm Flak gun.

Anymore thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I will post my version of the rocket rail for you to look at and maybe add some ideas? I have the feeling it may be too long though..again I have seen various pictures of the ramp and they are or appear to be different lengths.
Another thought..I don't have a clue how accurate Planet models Enzian and ramp is,but you can get the instruction sheet online to look at..it might lead somewhere you know.
I included the Natter and it's tower
Rheintochter and it's ramp..work in progress..I just tried to create the launch ramp for the Rheintochter from available pictures and Bronco's instruction sheet for the Pak 41 gun. The missile is the ages old Planet Models.
Steve in the USA



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renscho
Member Avatar
Administrator
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I bet you have seen this, but what the heck...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq2hpCLLynk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu5A7LZTgvI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJ4G2r22eo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVHPWu2KrlA&feature=related

There are some interesting ramps shown in the last two in proximity to the main subject...
Robert E. Rensch
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sdkfz251
Member
[ *  * ]
Thanks!
Much appreciated..two things of great interest to me for a start..1. Enzian ramp was manually raised and 2. the ramp itself is longer than usually seen..I was interested to see just how little was needed to launch Wasserfall as well. Very interesting to see Wasserfall being launch alongside the Enzian launcher as well. I Believe these clips will help immensely towards a more realistic build. And as for seeing them already..Rheintochter I have,but the other 3 were new to me.

Many thanks..If you find anything else I'd be extremely grateful!


Steve in the USA

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typhoon
Member Avatar
Beast
[ * ]
Hi
There is (or was) a very good publication with detailed scale drawings and pictures too of most of German secret weapons including air to air and air to ground rockets with their ramps.
I have a pdf copy of it unfortunately w/o front cover, so I’m not fully sure about the title of it, but I guess it is “Reichdreams - Secret Wonder Weapons of the Third Reich-German Missiles 1934-1945” or something similar.
I think it could be really a good guidance for anybody willing to scratch build an Enzian, Rheintochter or a Wassefal ramps (and many other ramp launched missile and aircraft).
Anybody interested on more on that book, may contact me via Email

Cheers
Giampiero (typhoon)
giagama@tin.it
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renscho
Member Avatar
Administrator
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Perhaps it's "Reichdreams Dossier 7" which appears to be in print and available on this site...

http://www.luft46.com/rd/rdreams.html

Scroll down for Dossier 7... 25USD(?)

Is it possibly the same publication?
Robert E. Rensch
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