Mirage 2000-5 vs F-16C

Mirage 2000-5 vs F-16C
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 18 2008, 06:05 PM (393 Views)
Incog	Oct 18 2008, 06:05 PM Post #1
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	/debate
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Vondongo	Oct 18 2008, 07:08 PM Post #2
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Fighting Falcon IMO. Although nowadays it's starting to become a bit dated, it's like Cataphract armor in the Middle Ages. Sure, there were newer and better ways to protect one's self, it still worked pretty well and beat most of what it had to deal with.



Incog	Oct 18 2008, 08:05 PM Post #3
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	hmmmm Mirage is more agile than the F16. So it would haz an advantage over the F16 in a dogfight. (i did my homework before making this thread, i just want to see how people argue in about something they aren't too sure about)
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Vondongo	Oct 18 2008, 08:47 PM Post #4
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Well that's true, but the Falcon as far as I know, is also a significantly more cost-effective aircraft. The Mirage, quality-wise has superior mechanics (I admit, the Mirage is definitely a good aircraft), but the Falcon gets you more for your respective dollar--or Euro.



Incog	Oct 18 2008, 09:24 PM Post #5
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	My sources (which could ofc be wrong ;p) give me 2700 $/hour for the M2K and 3600 $/hour for the F16. That's cheap in both cases ofc, but the Gripen (Saab) does a 2000 $/hour. So M2K is more cost-effective in that respect. Which is quite normal when you think about, the Mirage's powerplant is out-dated, and the F16 has a powerhouse. Mirage has an M53P2 (95 kN on full afterburner). F16 has the F110-GE-129, which gives it 129 kN full thrust. F16 has way more power, it's for that reason that it can take a heavier load than the Mirage 2K.
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Vondongo	Oct 18 2008, 09:30 PM Post #6
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Hmmm, my sources could also be potentially wrong at the same time. I don't think there's any way to know until these two aircraft actually do engage in a dogfight and someone is recording all the ensuing stats. This isn't as simple as a tank battle (M3 Sherman vs Panzer V, lulz), so...yeah.



Incog	Oct 18 2008, 10:01 PM Post #7
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	There's a cold war between the Hellenic Air Force and the Turkish Air Force. Also a lot of training/practice dogfights. Will try to find some stuff.
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Vondongo	Oct 19 2008, 01:31 AM Post #8
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Oh, the Greeks are so going to get themselves into war with the Turks. And I think this is going to be one of those things that will push the "swing" of Europe into a more aggressive state along. Remember that when the Greeks opted to rebel against the Turks, almost all of Europe decided to help them out in one way or another. And if they war with the Turks again, full-scale (the incident on Cyprus was a best-case scenario), East vs West will happen once again. Just kinda afraid of what will happen to Armenia and Georgia if that ends up happening though.



Jam	Oct 19 2008, 05:16 AM Post #9
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	Just let Greece and Turkey fight, who cares?
	Long live Carolus


MaxJ	Oct 19 2008, 10:28 AM Post #10
Wij van A414A adviseren A414A Posts: 9,339 Group: Moderator Member #58 Joined: April 21, 2008	Redemption Oct 19 2008, 03:31 AM Oh, the Greeks are so going to get themselves into war with the Turks. And I think this is going to be one of those things that will push the "swing" of Europe into a more aggressive state along. Remember that when the Greeks opted to rebel against the Turks, almost all of Europe decided to help them out in one way or another. And if they war with the Turks again, full-scale (the incident on Cyprus was a best-case scenario), East vs West will happen once again. Just kinda afraid of what will happen to Armenia and Georgia if that ends up happening though. lol East vs West was communism vs capitalism(both are capitalism) and they can't find against eachother, they are both members of NATO
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Incog	Oct 19 2008, 11:55 AM Post #11
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t...torder-asc.html ^There's my sources, there's also some info about the conflict over the Aegean.
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Vondongo	Oct 19 2008, 01:14 PM Post #12
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	MaxJ Oct 19 2008, 06:28 AM Redemption Oct 19 2008, 03:31 AM Oh, the Greeks are so going to get themselves into war with the Turks. And I think this is going to be one of those things that will push the "swing" of Europe into a more aggressive state along. Remember that when the Greeks opted to rebel against the Turks, almost all of Europe decided to help them out in one way or another. And if they war with the Turks again, full-scale (the incident on Cyprus was a best-case scenario), East vs West will happen once again. Just kinda afraid of what will happen to Armenia and Georgia if that ends up happening though. lol East vs West was communism vs capitalism(both are capitalism) and they can't find against eachother, they are both members of NATO I'm not talking about Communism vs Capitalism here. This is a much older instance of East vs West. The Greeks and Turks have hated one another for about an entire millenium, and have had constant conflicts between related parties. Remember the incident on Cyprus? They'll never get along, and I don't think NATO is going to make much difference in the matter. The vast majority of the Middle East is going to support Turkey if they ever come into a conflict, the only exceptions likely being Israel, Armenia and Georgia. Yes, the latter two are technically in the Caucasus, but they're right next to a lot of Islamic countries that they're not on good terms with--and Georgians and Armenians, Armenians in particular--do NOT like the Turks at all. So what we're likely to see if Greece and Turkey go to war is a conflict between Europe and the non-Muslim parts of the Caucasus (the Christians and irreligious uniting with one another in this situation) and the Islamic world. This is a relationship that is deeper than any treaty, I assure you. When the cradle of Western Civilization faces destruction at the hands of a country that is very slowly ceding to religious zealotry, shit's gonna go down. World war? I doubt it. But this conflict will erupt at one point or another.



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 20 2008, 11:25 AM Post #13
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	People don't use the good ol' F-15 Tomcat nemorez ):
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Oct 20 2008, 03:34 PM Post #14
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Ultra-Musketeer Oct 20 2008, 01:25 PM People don't use the good ol' F-15 Tomcat nemorez ): YOU DAMN NUB! F15 is teh eagle, the f14 is teh tomcat... please tell me you said that on purpose.
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The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 20 2008, 05:18 PM Post #15
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	? Oh sorry, I'm dumb. Still, the F-15 is kewl. It drops bombs 'n' stuff.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Oct 20 2008, 05:40 PM Post #16
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Ultra-Musketeer Oct 20 2008, 07:18 PM ? Oh sorry, I'm dumb. Still, the F-15 is kewl. It drops bombs 'n' stuff. (: You just make me laugh.
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Incog	Oct 27 2008, 03:39 PM Post #17
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5e8q_alp...-et-mirage-2000 It's comparable to listening to Pink Floyd, this is some of the best aerial footage ever taken. It was taken for a movie (the movie suckd), so the quality is pretty good. It shows off the agility of both aircraft presented here. For the uneducated, Mirage 2000 is the delta fighter (only one pair of wings) and the smaller 2 seater with a tail is an Alphajet. I recommand watching it...(it's really peaceful).
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The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 27 2008, 03:46 PM Post #18
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Haha, I just like flying around in Halo in a banshee, even though its not special, I just like to fly smoothly and narrowly avoid hitting objects. It looks nice. Streaming video hmmmm
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 27 2008, 03:50 PM Post #19
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Very very nice, but seeing as it wasn't CGI, the best camera angles weren't used. It would've been much better if the cameras where over the planes, and taped to the back or front of them.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Oct 27 2008, 05:39 PM Post #20
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	CGI?
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Vondongo	Oct 28 2008, 12:36 AM Post #21
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Computer Generated Images.



Incog	Oct 28 2008, 11:35 AM Post #22
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	But that's FAKE.
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The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 28 2008, 03:18 PM Post #23
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	I know, the great thing about your video is that it's all real. The problem is, it's extremely hard to get good camera points if you're filming flight and dogfights realistically, which is why CGI rules over this point, especially if you're filming for a movie. If you're just filming to show people your amazing 1337 flying skillz, then no CGI thnx.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Oct 28 2008, 03:44 PM Post #24
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	What angles do you want anyway? There should be some way to overcome that RL.
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Vondongo	Oct 28 2008, 08:33 PM Post #25
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	I'd skip CGI with real aircraft, that kind of defies the point of...real aircraft. Unless something is supposed to get destroyed, then we have a different situation.



Incog	Oct 28 2008, 08:53 PM Post #26
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Hehe, totally. But it's way better RL. :) Watch the vid
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The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Oct 29 2008, 03:08 PM Post #27
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Incognoto Oct 28 2008, 03:44 PM What angles do you want anyway? There should be some way to overcome that RL. Haha no, I want the camera to be following the planes, etc, like behind them, and spinning when they spin, etc. It can be done in RL, it's just hard. You might occasionally need a helicopter to do it.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Oct 29 2008, 06:03 PM Post #28
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Those aren't the best camera angles imo, but I see what you mean. :P
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