Athiests and Agnostics alike,

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Athiests and Agnostics alike,
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 24 2008, 10:00 PM (4,238 Views)
UnknownCow	Nov 26 2008, 10:47 PM Post #31
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Supervizor Nov 26 2008, 10:08 PM alot of talking, and a poor excuse ;P. Saying somebody else his arguments are laughable is just annoying, so don't make lame excuses. No wonder ur asking how to define good and evil, u haven't even heard of normal social behavior. Lol my excuses arn't "lame" at all. They're plain reason. If I am right, than indeed what you said is wrong, in rhetoric another way of saying this would be to tell you your argument is laughable. If "normal social behavior" is condescending to the level your trying to take this I shall take no part in it.



gs	Nov 26 2008, 10:50 PM Post #32
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	you know how there are these people that seem too realistic and rational to be religious, but then turn out to be religious after all? to me, vizor was one of those people. mostly you can see it from a mile off, that someone is religious (i immediately knew diane and germain were), but i couldn't this time, was quite intriguing. just on a side note...



UnknownCow	Nov 26 2008, 11:05 PM Post #33
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Hyperactive Jam Nov 26 2008, 10:25 PM "To begin, you seem to think that because you feel guilty, it's wrong." No thats not at all what I think. I'm saying that our emotions are our basis for our morals, Hitler didn't feel guilty about killing Jews and guess what he did? He killed more Jews because he thought he was morally justified. Emotions are basis for our morals, and our emotions are influenced by many many stimuli from both nature and nurture. We're all have a built in sense of right and wrong wether or not we all have it the same way, and many influences in our life (yes religion is one of them) play an important role in shaping our morals, but no one is solely responsible and the levels at which they are responsible vary for individuals given their environments. "the rules of ethics are above nature. Above nature; supernatural." What you are saying is that ethics are absolute. So human opinion can't change what ethics are, that certainly makes them above opinion, but not nature. Tons of things are absolute truths and indifferent to opinion, basically any fact is supernatural? I don't understand your resoning, can you break it down? You'll have to further clarify the difference for me. You're proposing a subjective moral compass, one that changes from person to person. You say that emotion (guilt being an emotion) is the basis of our ethics. So if we feel (keeping it subjective) ____ about something than it's wrong/right. Is this not correct? I recognize that each person will have a customized ethics based off nature and nurture, but I propose that ultimately true morals are objective. Of course, I'd be happy to break it down. It is above nature because no thing in nature, nor nature itself can change objective morals. Other absolute truths such as, the law of gravity, are not above nature. This is simply because they are a part of earthly nature. The law of gravity can not be found in spiritual relms, we can however safely assert that if objective moral law exists, than it exists everywhere.



UnknownCow	Nov 26 2008, 11:06 PM Post #34
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	gs Nov 26 2008, 10:50 PM you know how there are these people that seem too realistic and rational to be religious, but then turn out to be religious after all? to me, vizor was one of those people. mostly you can see it from a mile off, that someone is religious (i immediately knew diane and germain were), but i couldn't this time, was quite intriguing. just on a side note... Religous? Vizor isn't religous. How can an Atheist be religous? :blink:



gs	Nov 26 2008, 11:07 PM Post #35
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	haha you fell for it too vizor is not an atheist :/



UnknownCow	Nov 26 2008, 11:09 PM Post #36
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Interesting. And what does he claim to be?



gs	Nov 26 2008, 11:11 PM Post #37
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	not exactly sure, my guess would be catholic.



UnknownCow	Nov 26 2008, 11:12 PM Post #38
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Catholic! Haha that would be greatly to my amusent, considering I am one.



Jam	Nov 26 2008, 11:23 PM Post #39
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	Yes thats what I'm saying. There is no such thing as a true moral, thats what ethics are about. Well of course nature can't change ethics, its an idea, it doesn't exist.
	Long live Carolus


Jam	Nov 26 2008, 11:26 PM Post #40
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	I'm a scientologist, they cured my homosexuality.
	Long live Carolus


UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 12:06 AM Post #41
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Hyperactive Jam Nov 26 2008, 11:23 PM Yes thats what I'm saying. There is no such thing as a true moral, thats what ethics are about. Well of course nature can't change ethics, its an idea, it doesn't exist. Ideas exist. But you didn't answer my question, what was difference between what you said and what I did? Also, if you do not believe in objective morals, what holds together order in society to you. Personaly I see no reason to follow anyone elses subjective moral views, they shouldn't push there views on to me right?



Supervizor	Nov 27 2008, 12:26 AM Post #42
Major Posts: 1,483 Group: Member Member #79 Joined: June 5, 2008	:D:D im not even going to discuss my religion... edit: not going to further discuss with you unknowncow, if you can't even understand that saying somebodys opinion is laughable is unpolite then im waisting my breath.



UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 12:27 AM Post #43
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Supervizor Nov 27 2008, 12:26 AM :D:D im not even going to discuss my religion... Suit yourself.



MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 01:47 AM Post #44
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	UnknownCow Nov 27 2008, 12:27 AM Supervizor Nov 27 2008, 12:26 AM :D:D im not even going to discuss my religion... Suit yourself. he just has his own mindset on things. own moral and ethical values, but hes not Catholic or morally Athiest.
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 01:48 AM Post #45
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	UnknownCow Nov 26 2008, 11:12 PM Catholic! Haha that would be greatly to my amusent, considering I am one. YO DUDE =D high 5s is jam the one who studies IB btw? or was it unknowncow hahaha ;p cz who ever one does, it sounds very tok-ish ;p
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 01:52 AM Post #46
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	MxDiane Nov 27 2008, 01:48 AM UnknownCow Nov 26 2008, 11:12 PM Catholic! Haha that would be greatly to my amusent, considering I am one. YO DUDE =D high 5s is jam the one who studies IB btw? or was it unknowncow hahaha ;p cz who ever one does, it sounds very tok-ish ;p I'm glad to see a brother in faith. I'm sorry terminology has escaped me, "IB"?



MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 01:58 AM Post #47
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	UnknownCow Nov 27 2008, 01:52 AM MxDiane Nov 27 2008, 01:48 AM UnknownCow Nov 26 2008, 11:12 PM Catholic! Haha that would be greatly to my amusent, considering I am one. YO DUDE =D high 5s is jam the one who studies IB btw? or was it unknowncow hahaha ;p cz who ever one does, it sounds very tok-ish ;p I'm glad to see a brother in faith. I'm sorry terminology has escaped me, "IB"? im a GIRL D:< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Baccalaureate
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 02:05 AM Post #48
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Semantics. :P



Big Richard	Nov 27 2008, 04:52 AM Post #49
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	Oh god religeous people, I'm not going to go into that -.- Anyway, morals can't be right or wrong it's all in the eye of the beholder or whatever. Basically Hitler did this and that because in his eyes jews were bad and killing them was good, whereas the allied forces fighting against Hitler saw it the opposite way, so there is no RIGHT or WRONG list when it comes to morals, it varies for each person, so to answer your question we can't tell whats right or wrong officially because it is not a set law, it's not even real, it's your concious (idk how to spell it).



MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 05:28 AM Post #50
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	well i do believe there are certain things that are set laws, thats what the law is for. but its a set law within each country, to create boundaries for us, for civilization reasons, and in a way it helps us shape our moral values which i do believe doesnt have a set law. but all in all, the foundation of our moral values are all quite similar, because we're all taught similar morals. although there isnt a universal absolute to it, there are certain moral judgements and values that are universally accepted and spread through all cultures e.g. kill, rape, steal; unless if you're some psychopath.
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 03:48 PM Post #51
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	Big Richard Nov 27 2008, 04:52 AM Oh god religeous people, I'm not going to go into that -.- Anyway, morals can't be right or wrong it's all in the eye of the beholder or whatever. Basically Hitler did this and that because in his eyes jews were bad and killing them was good, whereas the allied forces fighting against Hitler saw it the opposite way, so there is no RIGHT or WRONG list when it comes to morals, it varies for each person, so to answer your question we can't tell whats right or wrong officially because it is not a set law, it's not even real, it's your concious (idk how to spell it). So under what principle do you base authority and society, some sort of survival of the fittest? Any man who holds these beliefs is weakminded, for never has there been the stable minded man whose taken subjective law into principle. If it is true that there is real law than challenge the buerocrats, burn down there halls and senates! Put yourself on the crone, make yourself the god of the new world! Cold men write such tales in there caves but never has, and never will their hero arise. My words may seem harsh, but take care my friends for they are true. I can find no meaning in life under this principle. It is all a sinking ship. I can stand at the mast hoping to appear best, the hero, or I can go below deck playing cards to the bitter end. Both are pointless and despicable.



UnknownCow	Nov 27 2008, 03:51 PM Post #52
Lieutenant Posts: 381 Group: Member Member #131 Joined: October 22, 2008	MxDiane Nov 27 2008, 05:28 AM unless if you're some psychopath. Haha, isn't man a sick phycopath in this form!? They will take and destroy all they can! You are farther in the path than others in this path, Diane. But you still trust mankind far to much. Only once we recognize humanity for the sick slime that it is can we advance farther.



MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 04:07 PM Post #53
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	UnknownCow Nov 27 2008, 03:51 PM MxDiane Nov 27 2008, 05:28 AM unless if you're some psychopath. Haha, isn't man a sick phycopath in this form!? They will take and destroy all they can! You are farther in the path than others in this path, Diane. But you still trust mankind far to much. Only once we recognize humanity for the sick slime that it is can we advance farther. i dont quite get what you're saying o.o
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Nov 27 2008, 04:26 PM Post #54
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Big Richard Nov 27 2008, 08:52 AM Oh god religeous people, I'm not going to go into that -.- Anyway, morals can't be right or wrong it's all in the eye of the beholder or whatever. Basically Hitler did this and that because in his eyes jews were bad and killing them was good, whereas the allied forces fighting against Hitler saw it the opposite way, so there is no RIGHT or WRONG list when it comes to morals, it varies for each person, so to answer your question we can't tell whats right or wrong officially because it is not a set law, it's not even real, it's your concious (idk how to spell it). Haha, Big Richard, ya know what? Fuck you. Fuck. You. I understand now why your nickname is Big Dick . If you can't respect religious people, then you obviously can't respect yourself. Go and rape donkeys with your artificial vagina, cum-face.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Supervizor	Nov 27 2008, 04:57 PM Post #55
Major Posts: 1,483 Group: Member Member #79 Joined: June 5, 2008	UnknownCow Nov 27 2008, 03:51 PM MxDiane Nov 27 2008, 05:28 AM unless if you're some psychopath. Haha, isn't man a sick phycopath in this form!? They will take and destroy all they can! You are farther in the path than others in this path, Diane. But you still trust mankind far to much. Only once we recognize humanity for the sick slime that it is can we advance farther. HAHAHA, nice. your more of a mental case then i assumed ^ ^. I figured you as a kid that was really bored and wanted to be "funny" but u just turned from that to loony ;P



Big Richard	Nov 27 2008, 05:41 PM Post #56
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	Ultra-Musketeer Nov 27 2008, 04:26 PM Big Richard Nov 27 2008, 08:52 AM Oh god religeous people, I'm not going to go into that -.- Anyway, morals can't be right or wrong it's all in the eye of the beholder or whatever. Basically Hitler did this and that because in his eyes jews were bad and killing them was good, whereas the allied forces fighting against Hitler saw it the opposite way, so there is no RIGHT or WRONG list when it comes to morals, it varies for each person, so to answer your question we can't tell whats right or wrong officially because it is not a set law, it's not even real, it's your concious (idk how to spell it). Haha, Big Richard, ya know what? Fuck you. Fuck. You. I understand now why your nickname is Big Dick . If you can't respect religious people, then you obviously can't respect yourself. Go and rape donkeys with your artificial vagina, cum-face. Hahaha, I didn't say anything disrespectful, and since I'm athiest you go on bashing me, so you're little speech about how I can't respect religeous people fires back up your ass.



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Nov 27 2008, 05:57 PM Post #57
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Big Richard Nov 27 2008, 09:41 PM Ultra-Musketeer Nov 27 2008, 04:26 PM Big Richard Nov 27 2008, 08:52 AM Oh god religeous people, I'm not going to go into that -.- Anyway, morals can't be right or wrong it's all in the eye of the beholder or whatever. Basically Hitler did this and that because in his eyes jews were bad and killing them was good, whereas the allied forces fighting against Hitler saw it the opposite way, so there is no RIGHT or WRONG list when it comes to morals, it varies for each person, so to answer your question we can't tell whats right or wrong officially because it is not a set law, it's not even real, it's your concious (idk how to spell it). Haha, Big Richard, ya know what? Fuck you. Fuck. You. I understand now why your nickname is Big Dick . If you can't respect religious people, then you obviously can't respect yourself. Go and rape donkeys with your artificial vagina, cum-face. Hahaha, I didn't say anything disrespectful, and since I'm athiest you go on bashing me, so you're little speech about how I can't respect religeous people fires back up your ass. holy SHIT man, you got some nice come backs! Well listen to me, dork face, YOU can take your WATER BUFFALO FAECES and shove it up your ass!! Kos I REALLY can't deal with people as IGNORANT and SELF-ASSURED as you are!!!!! You watch me, I'm gonna get you BANNED from the goddamn forums, mate! I have some pretty good influence here, and I'll make sure that you never have an enjoyable moment on the internet EVER AGAIN. No go play HIDE THE SAUSAGE with your father. He's waiting.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


MxDiane	Nov 27 2008, 06:06 PM Post #58
Worteltjes World Posts: 10,700 Group: Pegasus Member #3 Joined: December 13, 2007	HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that totally cracked me up LOLOLOL. imagine andy saying all that in real life awwww ;p how cute!! LOLOLOLOLOL
	"He orders something unusual, like a Black Russian or a Tom Collins, and when you request a beer he says that surely a complex woman deserves a complex drink. " - Travis Grandt


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Nov 27 2008, 06:12 PM Post #59
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	cute? O_O I can imagine myself saying this, and it's not that funny. Okay actually it is... Actually, I imagine myself saying this, breaking down in laughter halfway through, and thus losing face.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


gs	Nov 27 2008, 06:15 PM Post #60
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	you seem to like big richard?



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