gs

Dec 4 2008, 12:48 AM

@vizor
maybe in the future we will find ourselves in a situation where we have to change certain morals that were considered objective by a large amount of people.

it's like the US constitution, it "can't be changed" because it's all "objective law". and now that it has to be changed, now that many people can finally see the danger of for example the right to bear arms, people who think like you (sure, more extreme but like you nonetheless) are in the way.


and cow, i don't get you either

your point in this whole discussion was that if you believe in subjective law, you can't say something is good or bad?
....

true, you can't say something IS good or bad, but you can give your OPINION... i don't believe in objective law, but i still think murder is a terrible crime...

Quote:

 

so come up and sit on the fence with me, or enjoy yourselves trying to prove your points to each other fruitlessly.

Supervizor

Dec 3 2008, 11:10 PM

it can only be a insult if you consider "muslim" an insult. So why do you consider muslim to be an insult?

EmpressGermee

Dec 4 2008, 05:42 AM

actually you're all trying to make generalizations here. Truth of the matter is, you can't reduce any topic of this matter to subjective or objective, right or wrong, moral or logic, there is no one argument because in every situation each comes in it's varying degrees. Each of you would also have a different stand point regarding different situations so even though right now you might be convinced about a certain idea or theory, that will also change and maybe another context you in will take up a argument you previously opposed.
We agree on ideas and when that happens majority wins, as time passes and we are presented with different situations, that idea changes and therefore as I said, there can be no solid argument.
If anyone of us actually achieved in proving their point was right here, philosophy would eat itself and life, the world would seem much less complex than it is.

so come up and sit on the fence with me, or enjoy yourselves trying to prove your points to each other fruitlessly.

UnknownCow

Dec 4 2008, 09:43 PM

I don't know Dragon, Irealy don't know...

To gs and Saladin. When your purpose (meaning) is subjective, it realy isn't worth anything, you'll say one thing, I might say another. I come in with guns and destroy your meaning. I win. Your subjective belief means nothing.
Gs, I wsan't saying people don't care about your opinon, I'm saying your meaning isn't worth anything nor for that matter is their intrest in it when we look at this through the lense of a godless worl view.

_Saladin_

Dec 5 2008, 05:10 AM

Unknowncow uses the premise of "If morals are subjective", but he comes to logically flawed conclusion using that premise of "it rids the world of purpose". That doesn't logically flow.

I believe morals are subjective, but I still have purpose in life. What you mean to say is that If morals are subjective, then purpose is subjective. That's the only logical outcome you can make using that premise. I don't understand why you say the world would have no purpose when I could easily prove you wrong by telling you my purpose. I don't understand how you define purpose, but I'm telling you, it's not the right definition.

_Saladin_

Dec 4 2008, 09:54 PM

UnknownCow

Dec 4 2008, 09:43 PM

I don't know Dragon, Irealy don't know...

To gs and Saladin. When your purpose (meaning) is subjective, it realy isn't worth anything, you'll say one thing, I might say another. I come in with guns and destroy your meaning. I win. Your subjective belief means nothing.
Gs, I wsan't saying people don't care about your opinon, I'm saying your meaning isn't worth anything nor for that matter is their intrest in it when we look at this through the lense of a godless worl view.

Actually it is worth something. A subjective purpose has subjective worth. I find it incredible that you're saying something objective is coming out of something subjective. How does this work exactly?

UnknownCow

Dec 5 2008, 12:53 AM

Why do you presuppose that all these things are subjective?
Don't countter this by pointing out my own presupositions, I admit them. However thee is no natural way to conclude that these things are subjective, consequently one must choose his presupositions based of the world form they create, and how much this world view defines the universe.

There are those who think they are Christ. It is impossible to prove to them they are not, but a what a patheitic world thy imagine. How little of the grand mysteres it explains. Would it not be fiiting if some higher Christ blew fown his hammer and shattered this false universe?

UnknownCow

Dec 1 2008, 10:01 PM

I am an extremist.

gs,Dec 4 2008

12:48 AM

it's like the US constitution, it "can't be changed" because it's all "objective law". and now that it has to be changed, now that many people can finally see the danger of for example the right to bear arms, people who think like you (sure, more extreme but like you nonetheless) are in the way.