Redemption

Nov 27 2010, 12:41 PM

gs

Nov 27 2010, 05:02 AM

never said anything about aging up, but you should always be producing vills no matter what... the only exception is india's 10/10 rush. it's not like it would hurt your inf mass that much.

i still don't understand why casual players can actually think they're right in a disagreement with an expert who has played this game actively since 2006.

And when did I say anything about stopping villager production?

I'm talking about having 40 villagers or some such already made (constantly, duh), a few population spots for another batch or two or three, and +140 strelets already out.

The point of that being a factor of slowing my economy down is that if I age, going triple tc is out of the question because I've already got too many slots filled up, and because I just spent a huge amount of food that I could've apportioned out to food and gold to age. If you're not talking about aging, what are you suggesting? Sitting in colonial for the entire game?

If I'm Russia and I want to get a sick eco out ASAP I'm going to go fort sooner rather than later (oblig, since that's the case with other civs too, but Russia benefits maybe the most of all when it hits fortress). But I'm avoiding doing that and making such a big army so that I can't go triple tcs, even if I aged up, as the price of getting such a large army on the field at once and completely overwhelming the opponent since he's trying to age/boom and get an army out and won't have much.




By the way, when I get into discussion with a casual person about history, I don't lambast them regardless of what they say just because I have a history degree and they don't. I mean hey, I've disowned that thing before on this very board, but it still counts for something, right? One of those things it counts for not being arrogant just because I've got a shiny piece of paper.

gs

Nov 27 2010, 04:55 PM

you said you'd intentionally slow down your eco to get more units out... bad idea, especially in teamgames.

when massing strelets if you find yourself without enough population to continue vill production, delete 3 strelets or consider pushing, unless you have the resources to age. but if you intend to pressure your opponent, why would you wait until you have 140 strelets anyway?

and this game isn't history. discussions about history are mostly a result of differences in political preference or differences in interpretation. there is no preference or interpretation in this game, it's about winning and your way doesn't win while my way does. it's all facts we're talking about, and yes when i disagree with someone who has never even broke pr30 i don't consider their opinion to be worth anything. low ranked players' opinions are always flawed because they're based on their own experience and they have not played against strong players enough to have the experience to make valid statements about strategy.

Redemption

 

gs

Nov 24 2010, 05:13 PM

lol are you serious i really need to explain this to you?

yes 200 musks beat 140 but there won't be just 1 battle... you both will fight until one of you runs out of resources, and because your opponent is gathering the whole time while you're not, even with the military pop advantage you're not gonna be able to keep up.

In that situation you're right but that isn't always the case. Doing Russia in team games I'd intentionally slow my economy down to get a gigantic mass of strelets (closer to about 140-60 rather than 100 or less) despite not being able to make as many villagers.

gs

Nov 27 2010, 07:36 PM

edit: wait you're not stopping producing vills?

Redemption

 

gs

Nov 24 2010, 05:13 PM

lol are you serious i really need to explain this to you?

yes 200 musks beat 140 but there won't be just 1 battle... you both will fight until one of you runs out of resources, and because your opponent is gathering the whole time while you're not, even with the military pop advantage you're not gonna be able to keep up.

In that situation you're right but that isn't always the case. Doing Russia in team games I'd intentionally slow my economy down to get a gigantic mass of strelets (closer to about 140-60 rather than 100 or less) despite not being able to make as many villagers.

definitely made it sound like it with that post

if you were simply talking about not aging up for 3 TCs, then there is no discussion. this is entirely dependent on the situation and you can't possibly simulate this on a forum, especially when it's 3v3.

ultra was talking about rather having 200 musks than 140 musks and 60 vills. i disagreed and explained why it's always better to have an eco. then you came in and said that it isn't always the case. and then you come with a situation that doesn't even support your argument?

it IS always the case. having a 100 or less vill eco is always better than saving pop for units, including in the situation you gave. but you weren't even saving pop for units because you were still making vills...

Redemption

Nov 27 2010, 08:04 PM

gs

Nov 27 2010, 07:36 PM

edit: wait you're not stopping producing vills?

Redemption

 

gs

Nov 24 2010, 05:13 PM

lol are you serious i really need to explain this to you?

yes 200 musks beat 140 but there won't be just 1 battle... you both will fight until one of you runs out of resources, and because your opponent is gathering the whole time while you're not, even with the military pop advantage you're not gonna be able to keep up.

In that situation you're right but that isn't always the case. Doing Russia in team games I'd intentionally slow my economy down to get a gigantic mass of strelets (closer to about 140-60 rather than 100 or less) despite not being able to make as many villagers.

definitely made it sound like it with that post

if you were simply talking about not aging up for 3 TCs, then there is no discussion. this is entirely dependent on the situation and you can't possibly simulate this on a forum, especially when it's 3v3.

ultra was talking about rather having 200 musks than 140 musks and 60 vills. i disagreed and explained why it's always better to have an eco. then you came in and said that it isn't always the case. and then you come with a situation that doesn't even support your argument?

it IS always the case. having a 100 or less vill eco is always better than saving pop for units, including in the situation you gave. but you weren't even saving pop for units because you were still making vills...

How does it not support my case? If I'm getting a bigger army to completely overwhelm the opponent (that is, attacking and constantly pumping out army while they're on the defensive) and it means that I can't yet go to fort to get three tcs up and produce villagers from three instead of one, I'm more or less doing an equivalent of slowing down villager production?

Now if we're in imperial and we've maxed out techs, then in the situation you gave yeah, I agree with you completely. And I said that at the beginning of my response to you. If I took out all his villagers I'd expect him to resign, because in the long term, even though he's got a better unit surge overall, if that can be defended against then he's got nothing left.

But when I have the option of either trying to get the resources to age (and again, I didn't have the gold because I let my partners take it for their cav) and slowing things down, thereby giving your oppnents a chance, or constantly pumping out an army of +140 units at once when the opponent has very little to fight back with and you're able to harrass him? Second one is a much better choice in the situation I was in.

gs

Nov 27 2010, 10:46 PM

Redemption

Nov 27 2010, 08:04 PM

gs

Nov 27 2010, 07:36 PM

edit: wait you're not stopping producing vills?

Redemption

 

gs

Nov 24 2010, 05:13 PM

lol are you serious i really need to explain this to you?

yes 200 musks beat 140 but there won't be just 1 battle... you both will fight until one of you runs out of resources, and because your opponent is gathering the whole time while you're not, even with the military pop advantage you're not gonna be able to keep up.

In that situation you're right but that isn't always the case. Doing Russia in team games I'd intentionally slow my economy down to get a gigantic mass of strelets (closer to about 140-60 rather than 100 or less) despite not being able to make as many villagers.

definitely made it sound like it with that post

if you were simply talking about not aging up for 3 TCs, then there is no discussion. this is entirely dependent on the situation and you can't possibly simulate this on a forum, especially when it's 3v3.

ultra was talking about rather having 200 musks than 140 musks and 60 vills. i disagreed and explained why it's always better to have an eco. then you came in and said that it isn't always the case. and then you come with a situation that doesn't even support your argument?

it IS always the case. having a 100 or less vill eco is always better than saving pop for units, including in the situation you gave. but you weren't even saving pop for units because you were still making vills...

How does it not support my case? If I'm getting a bigger army to completely overwhelm the opponent (that is, attacking and constantly pumping out army while they're on the defensive) and it means that I can't yet go to fort to get three tcs up and produce villagers from three instead of one, I'm more or less doing an equivalent of slowing down villager production?

Now if we're in imperial and we've maxed out techs, then in the situation you gave yeah, I agree with you completely. And I said that at the beginning of my response to you. If I took out all his villagers I'd expect him to resign, because in the long term, even though he's got a better unit surge overall, if that can be defended against then he's got nothing left.

But when I have the option of either trying to get the resources to age (and again, I didn't have the gold because I let my partners take it for their cav) and slowing things down, thereby giving your oppnents a chance, or constantly pumping out an army of +140 units at once when the opponent has very little to fight back with and you're able to harrass him? Second one is a much better choice in the situation I was in.

how does getting the resources to age have anything to do with stopping to create villagers/deleting them to save pop slots for military?

because that's what it was about

gs

Nov 28 2010, 12:20 AM

ye that's an entirely different point than me and ultra were arguing

Big Richard

Nov 28 2010, 05:02 PM

andy is pro life LOL

Ultra-Musketeer

Nov 29 2010, 02:07 PM

The French teach philosophy in their schools.
What do you learn in school, Derek?

Jack the IV

Nov 29 2010, 09:58 PM

Ultra-Musketeer

Nov 29 2010, 02:07 PM

The French teach philosophy in their schools.
What do you learn in school, Derek?

Today I learned my biology teacher is more of a bitch then I thought she was.