In God We Trust

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In God We Trust
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 30 2009, 07:12 PM (5,935 Views)
DragonLegend	Aug 9 2009, 07:54 PM Post #121
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Hyperactive Jam Aug 9 2009, 07:39 PM It doesn't matter when you get the present, it just comes down to people giving stuff to each other to show that they care about them, is this some sort of Christian-specific ideology? I didn't say presents, I said Christmas presents. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Without Christmas, there wouldn't even be any Christmas presents. Quote: yeah good job I said I dont get any so fuck off Of course, you don't.



Big Richard	Aug 9 2009, 08:12 PM Post #122
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	oh how lovely you've finally showed how stubborn you are, you only hear what you want to hear. I dont get christmas presents, how hard is it for you to understand that?



DragonLegend	Aug 9 2009, 08:16 PM Post #123
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	I said I believed you. What makes you think I was being sarcastic?



Big Richard	Aug 9 2009, 08:38 PM Post #124
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 9 2009, 07:54 PM Hyperactive Jam Aug 9 2009, 07:39 PM It doesn't matter when you get the present, it just comes down to people giving stuff to each other to show that they care about them, is this some sort of Christian-specific ideology? I didn't say presents, I said Christmas presents. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Without Christmas, there wouldn't even be any Christmas presents. Quote: yeah good job I said I dont get any so fuck off Of course, you don't. idk what could have possibly suggested that you dont believe me



Vondongo	Aug 9 2009, 08:45 PM Post #125
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	_Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 06:25 PM Ichigo1uk Aug 9 2009, 10:11 AM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 02:17 AM Exactly, Jam's right. Btw most people here are missing the point of the "winter break" thing. Having a nationally accepted holiday for christians only is promotion of christianity. I hope everyone here realizes that muslims do not get the day off for eid. Do you all see the bias behind "christmas break"? That's why they said fuck it, let's just make it a secular holiday so we don't have to leave some religions out and endorse only some. Muslims have there own holidays too my understanding. They don't get the day off for them, because the government doesn't endorse muslim holidays. Yet everyone here is pissed off because they want the government to endorse christian holidays? Of course it's ok to discriminate against those crazy foreign religions, but not mine! Mine is the light! Jewish holidays are endorsed too. I'd like for Muslim holidays to be able to get some kind of recognition (since there IS a Muslim minority here), the problem is that it shouldn't be expanded too far for all religions, whereupon you get cults and faux-religions (that is, ones created entirely to exploit such benefits) who try to leech off the system instead of having a legitimate reason to benefit.



_Saladin_	Aug 9 2009, 09:15 PM Post #126
Major Bullshit Posts: 2,763 Group: A414A Member Member #28 Joined: January 1, 2008	Redemption Aug 9 2009, 08:45 PM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 06:25 PM Ichigo1uk Aug 9 2009, 10:11 AM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 02:17 AM Exactly, Jam's right. Btw most people here are missing the point of the "winter break" thing. Having a nationally accepted holiday for christians only is promotion of christianity. I hope everyone here realizes that muslims do not get the day off for eid. Do you all see the bias behind "christmas break"? That's why they said fuck it, let's just make it a secular holiday so we don't have to leave some religions out and endorse only some. Muslims have there own holidays too my understanding. They don't get the day off for them, because the government doesn't endorse muslim holidays. Yet everyone here is pissed off because they want the government to endorse christian holidays? Of course it's ok to discriminate against those crazy foreign religions, but not mine! Mine is the light! Jewish holidays are endorsed too. I'd like for Muslim holidays to be able to get some kind of recognition (since there IS a Muslim minority here), the problem is that it shouldn't be expanded too far for all religions, whereupon you get cults and faux-religions (that is, ones created entirely to exploit such benefits) who try to leech off the system instead of having a legitimate reason to benefit. Yah see for the very reason of excluding small religions I'd rather have NO religions be endorsed, which isn't exactly a crazy idea, it's just called separation of church and state. You said it yourself, it shouldn't be expanded too far for all religions. That's blatant discrimination. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people with legitimate religions that are obscure and the government doesn't treat their religion with respect. Endorsement of religion is a popularity contest? Your religion's too small, you'll get no recognition from us?



Vondongo	Aug 9 2009, 10:17 PM Post #127
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	_Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 09:15 PM Redemption Aug 9 2009, 08:45 PM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 06:25 PM Ichigo1uk Aug 9 2009, 10:11 AM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 02:17 AM Exactly, Jam's right. Btw most people here are missing the point of the "winter break" thing. Having a nationally accepted holiday for christians only is promotion of christianity. I hope everyone here realizes that muslims do not get the day off for eid. Do you all see the bias behind "christmas break"? That's why they said fuck it, let's just make it a secular holiday so we don't have to leave some religions out and endorse only some. Muslims have there own holidays too my understanding. They don't get the day off for them, because the government doesn't endorse muslim holidays. Yet everyone here is pissed off because they want the government to endorse christian holidays? Of course it's ok to discriminate against those crazy foreign religions, but not mine! Mine is the light! Jewish holidays are endorsed too. I'd like for Muslim holidays to be able to get some kind of recognition (since there IS a Muslim minority here), the problem is that it shouldn't be expanded too far for all religions, whereupon you get cults and faux-religions (that is, ones created entirely to exploit such benefits) who try to leech off the system instead of having a legitimate reason to benefit. Yah see for the very reason of excluding small religions I'd rather have NO religions be endorsed, which isn't exactly a crazy idea, it's just called separation of church and state. You said it yourself, it shouldn't be expanded too far for all religions. That's blatant discrimination. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people with legitimate religions that are obscure and the government doesn't treat their religion with respect. Endorsement of religion is a popularity contest? Your religion's too small, you'll get no recognition from us? I say that you can't expand "too far for all religions" because you can't make every single religious holiday a day off that grants school closings. But at the same time, should you hold it against someone for missing school because of their religious beliefs? Not at all. I think that all religions that are legitimate should get some benefit, but I say that you can't go too far because when you start giving each and every religion every single holiday off that they want to have regardless of actual relevance, people end up starting fake religions and cults solely to take advantage of that. Moreso, to streamline this issue, take census from every student that has a listed religion. For the sake of argument, if someone is listed as being Hindu, then they don't get any holidays off that belong to other religions but also don't coincide with theirs. The census thing can be altered by the student, but if they change their listed religion to another one, if they change it back then all days off and whatnot belonging to that religion are voided to them for the rest of the school year. That way everyone does get representation. As to what holidays are recognized can be decided by the people belonging that religion who push the issue to the school district (or to the whole nation). If someone doesn't push their religion's holidays, then they most likely either don't have the chance or simply don't care enough for that holiday.



Jam	Aug 9 2009, 10:23 PM Post #128
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 9 2009, 07:54 PM Hyperactive Jam Aug 9 2009, 07:39 PM It doesn't matter when you get the present, it just comes down to people giving stuff to each other to show that they care about them, is this some sort of Christian-specific ideology? I didn't say presents, I said Christmas presents. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Without Christmas, there wouldn't even be any Christmas presents. So how are the Christmas Presents a representation of Christian religion?
	Long live Carolus


Vondongo	Aug 9 2009, 10:52 PM Post #129
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Hyperactive Jam Aug 9 2009, 10:23 PM DragonLegend Aug 9 2009, 07:54 PM Hyperactive Jam Aug 9 2009, 07:39 PM It doesn't matter when you get the present, it just comes down to people giving stuff to each other to show that they care about them, is this some sort of Christian-specific ideology? I didn't say presents, I said Christmas presents. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Without Christmas, there wouldn't even be any Christmas presents. So how are the Christmas Presents a representation of Christian religion? Quite simply? They're not.



Ichigo1uk	Aug 10 2009, 12:31 AM Post #130
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	_Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 06:25 PM Ichigo1uk Aug 9 2009, 10:11 AM _Saladin_ Aug 9 2009, 02:17 AM Exactly, Jam's right. Btw most people here are missing the point of the "winter break" thing. Having a nationally accepted holiday for christians only is promotion of christianity. I hope everyone here realizes that muslims do not get the day off for eid. Do you all see the bias behind "christmas break"? That's why they said fuck it, let's just make it a secular holiday so we don't have to leave some religions out and endorse only some. Muslims have there own holidays too my understanding. They don't get the day off for them, because the government doesn't endorse muslim holidays. Yet everyone here is pissed off because they want the government to endorse christian holidays? Of course it's ok to discriminate against those crazy foreign religions, but not mine! Mine is the light! isn't there like a certain amount of days your allowed to take off each year to be used on Christmas and such. In Britain you get 3 days off for Christmas and most people work on new years, the party people are the homeless and students. tbh 3 days isn't much.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


ryker	Aug 10 2009, 12:32 AM Post #131
General Posts: 4,961 Group: A414A Member Member #134 Joined: December 1, 2008	actually, giving presents is very closely related to Christmas and the birth of Christ... the three wisemen gave Jesus three presents, one each. when people give eachother presents, it is a representation of the three wisemen. and the star that most people hang on a Christmas tree represents the star that the three wisemen followed, some people put an angel on top, that represents the angel the vergin marry saw.......
	my name is ryker


Ichigo1uk	Aug 10 2009, 12:35 AM Post #132
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	Christmas is a time of giving globally. etc Christmas presents, presents given at Christmas. But only Christians celebrate the actual meaning of Christmas.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


Ichigo1uk	Aug 10 2009, 12:36 AM Post #133
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	ryker Aug 10 2009, 12:32 AM actually, giving presents is very closely related to Christmas and the birth of Christ... the three wisemen gave Jesus three presents, one each. when people give eachother presents, it is a representation of the three wisemen. and the star that most people hang on a Christmas tree represents the star that the three wisemen followed, some people put an angel on top, that represents the angel the vergin marry saw....... The thought giving presents out at Christmas is a relatively modern thing.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


Ichigo1uk	Aug 10 2009, 12:44 AM Post #134
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	Probably been said but. "In God We Thrust"
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


_Saladin_	Aug 10 2009, 01:15 AM Post #135
Major Bullshit Posts: 2,763 Group: A414A Member Member #28 Joined: January 1, 2008	Redemption Aug 9 2009, 10:17 PM I say that you can't expand "too far for all religions" because you can't make every single religious holiday a day off that grants school closings. But at the same time, should you hold it against someone for missing school because of their religious beliefs? Not at all. I think that all religions that are legitimate should get some benefit, but I say that you can't go too far because when you start giving each and every religion every single holiday off that they want to have regardless of actual relevance, people end up starting fake religions and cults solely to take advantage of that. Moreso, to streamline this issue, take census from every student that has a listed religion. For the sake of argument, if someone is listed as being Hindu, then they don't get any holidays off that belong to other religions but also don't coincide with theirs. The census thing can be altered by the student, but if they change their listed religion to another one, if they change it back then all days off and whatnot belonging to that religion are voided to them for the rest of the school year. That way everyone does get representation. As to what holidays are recognized can be decided by the people belonging that religion who push the issue to the school district (or to the whole nation). If someone doesn't push their religion's holidays, then they most likely either don't have the chance or simply don't care enough for that holiday. That's quite the hassle to go through when you could easily just go for the simple and obvious answer and not nationalize ANY religious holidays. That way everyone is equal. Btw ryker, can you quote the bible passage that tells you how to celebrate christmas or even referring to the holiday of christmas?



Vondongo	Aug 10 2009, 01:49 AM Post #136
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	_Saladin_ Aug 10 2009, 01:15 AM Redemption Aug 9 2009, 10:17 PM I say that you can't expand "too far for all religions" because you can't make every single religious holiday a day off that grants school closings. But at the same time, should you hold it against someone for missing school because of their religious beliefs? Not at all. I think that all religions that are legitimate should get some benefit, but I say that you can't go too far because when you start giving each and every religion every single holiday off that they want to have regardless of actual relevance, people end up starting fake religions and cults solely to take advantage of that. Moreso, to streamline this issue, take census from every student that has a listed religion. For the sake of argument, if someone is listed as being Hindu, then they don't get any holidays off that belong to other religions but also don't coincide with theirs. The census thing can be altered by the student, but if they change their listed religion to another one, if they change it back then all days off and whatnot belonging to that religion are voided to them for the rest of the school year. That way everyone does get representation. As to what holidays are recognized can be decided by the people belonging that religion who push the issue to the school district (or to the whole nation). If someone doesn't push their religion's holidays, then they most likely either don't have the chance or simply don't care enough for that holiday. That's quite the hassle to go through when you could easily just go for the simple and obvious answer and not nationalize ANY religious holidays. That way everyone is equal. I think it'd be less of a hassle, if anything. The can of worms that can't be closed with your suggestion is an obvious one: people have already been granted their religious holidays. You'd be hard pressed to remove them with the people's will (or from the will of politicians) as there would be a LOT of people who wouldn't want their holidays and off days getting messed with--whether the people are religious or not--and by using a religion-specific system, they'd be able to keep them with a lot less conflict. Since, ya know, the actual holidays that are relevant to their religion are allowed to stay with them.



ryker	Aug 10 2009, 02:13 AM Post #137
General Posts: 4,961 Group: A414A Member Member #134 Joined: December 1, 2008	i couldnt show you the passage as i dont know if one exists or not. i just stated where the idea of presents came from, and why we put stars and angels on the tops of trees.... the star at the top of the tree represents the star that like i said, the wise men followed to find jesus. under the star, is the presents where jesus was and where they gave the presents to him. like i said, some use the angel to represent the angel marry saw. im not sure when we started the present thing, but im just telling you why we started the present thing.......
	my name is ryker


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 10 2009, 02:56 AM Post #138
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	All I see is walls of text. So I depart this page in peace. Goodbye.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Jam	Aug 10 2009, 03:45 AM Post #139
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	Ichigo1uk Aug 10 2009, 12:44 AM Probably been said but. "In God We Thrust" Yeah I said that.
	Long live Carolus


Lazurath	Aug 10 2009, 07:41 AM Post #140
Captain Posts: 790 Group: A414A Member Member #4 Joined: December 13, 2007	You know what, you're right Dragon. I'm just going to give up my tradition of celebrating life with my family and friends and forget entirely about Christmas, since I don't believe in God. I find your logic humorous Dragon. Most atheists celebrate Christmas. Heck, even CHRISTMAS isn't Christian! It's on the traditional Pagan celebration of the Sun!



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 10 2009, 10:09 AM Post #141
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Lazurath Aug 10 2009, 07:41 AM You know what, you're right Dragon. I'm just going to give up my tradition of celebrating life with my family and friends and forget entirely about Christmas, since I don't believe in God. I find your logic humorous Dragon. Most atheists celebrate Christmas. Heck, even CHRISTMAS isn't Christian! It's on the traditional Pagan celebration of the Sun! Sarcasm doesn't work. Use a shotgun.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Ichigo1uk	Aug 10 2009, 11:33 AM Post #142
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	ryker Aug 10 2009, 02:13 AM i couldnt show you the passage as i dont know if one exists or not. i just stated where the idea of presents came from, and why we put stars and angels on the tops of trees.... the star at the top of the tree represents the star that like i said, the wise men followed to find jesus. under the star, is the presents where jesus was and where they gave the presents to him. like i said, some use the angel to represent the angel marry saw. im not sure when we started the present thing, but im just telling you why we started the present thing....... The presents under the tree thing is relatively modern. First Christmas tree is recorded as 1510. The phrase "Christmas Tree" is first recorded in 1830s The Christmas Tree tradition is believed to be started in Germany in the 1800s and then introduced to Britain and USA a bit after. Santa Claus 1840s This earliest recording of Christmas is in the 350s Although there's no date for the first presents at Christmas time we can assume it's at the same time or after Santa Claus. Now ryker can you see how most of the things we associate with Christmas is relatively modern.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 10 2009, 11:55 AM Post #143
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	It's true, Christmas was about Jesus and food, not trees and presents and 75% off sales.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


DaOoof	Aug 10 2009, 12:37 PM Post #144
? Posts: 1,347 Group: A414A Member Member #20 Joined: December 23, 2007	Too many flame topics... TAD TOPICS



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 10 2009, 01:04 PM Post #145
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Stfu daooof, nobody cares.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Big Richard	Aug 10 2009, 04:13 PM Post #146
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	lol 75% off sales, and if the presents were about the three wise men, whats santa claus have to do with it? as you can see. christmas used to be a christian exclusive holiday, but since the idea was so wonderful, the grinch stole christmas and gave it to everyone, hurray!



DragonLegend	Aug 10 2009, 06:30 PM Post #147
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Jam, I'm not saying Christmas presents are a representation of Christianity. Like I said, Christmas is a Christian holiday, and without it, there wouldn't be any Christmas presents. Analogy time: Let's assume America is Christianity, and American culture is Christmas. If America never existed, there wouldn't be an American culture. And my whole point was, it's hypocritical to want to ban Christian songs on radio (something you don't like) while being A-OK with Christmas presents (something you like). Edited by DragonLegend, Aug 10 2009, 06:30 PM.



Incog	Aug 10 2009, 06:36 PM Post #148
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	The radio is a public service, your xmas tree isn't for the neighbourhood.
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


DragonLegend	Aug 10 2009, 06:57 PM Post #149
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	You know, if people don't like a certain song on the radio, they can just turn it off. I don't see the point of doing something as drastic as repressing (call it whatever you want) religion just to please a tiny minority. I know plenty of Atheists, Agnostics and other irreligious people who aren't obsessed with banning religion from Western culture. You people need to get a life and start worrying about things that actually matter, like socialized medicine, cap-n-trade, national security or Middle-Eastern wars instead of fretting about the national motto or Christmas.



Big Richard	Aug 10 2009, 09:49 PM Post #150
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	yes because first its the radio then its school then its everywhere, you have to draw the line somewhere. I respect their holidays because only the people who do celebrate christmas do it, whereas on radio its public and not everyone who listens to radio is christian so they dont want to hear that shit, now everyone who's not christian has to either listen to that horrible crap or turn off the radio? How bout keep that shit to yourself and others like you and dont spread it everywhere



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