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- Since Musket decided to invade History in the Making
| Since Musket decided to invade History in the Making | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2010, 10:38 AM (4,396 Views) | |
| Big Richard | Jun 22 2011, 09:33 PM Post #151 |
Gay People Read This.
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by the way dragon, this isn't a Fox opinion show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3LEhQIhtN0 more shit on fox news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cclH-0m5dLo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWJF1tXyt38&feature=related <-- pretty funny hahaha "do you not believe in freedom?!" what? they are leftists so thats a legitimate 'fair and balanced' question? loved the response he got too "most trusted media" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9jHWjLklzE&feature=related watch this video to see how Fox "news" (not opinion show) clearly reports this news in a biased way. ignore the hot, annoying bitch that keeps popping up btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWCpXkfNYk&feature=related I can find more and more but I'm bored Edited by Big Richard, Jun 22 2011, 09:51 PM.
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 01:19 PM Post #152 |
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Field Marshal
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Jesus, Richard, don't throw 500 million videos and posts at me and expect me to respond to them all. At least wait for me to respond to a post before making a new one.  GS, I capitalized it to make it clear I was referring to a political ideology. You know, like how you capitalize Communism. I wasn't saying that right-wing political ideologies are divine... |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 01:47 PM Post #153 |
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Field Marshal
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*Sigh* Rawstory is talking about Newscorp (which is not Fox News, but its parent company), Hannity (whose show is an opinion show), and Fox & Friends, which is a morning talk show. But alright, I'll grant you that F&F didn't show Obama's full statement, although it's hardly a secret that he opposes tax cuts for the rich, regardless of the deficit.
The point is, he didn't say the side he was referring to was the right-wing side. He said MSNBC is biased to the Left, and Fox isn't and tries to present the other side of the story (i.e. they don't show only one side of the story). The only reason you'd believe he meant the right-wing side and only the right-wing side is if you were biased against Fox and automatically assume the worst about them. And what does it matter what Wallace has to say about Fox? O'Reilly claims Fox is center-right. Give me a statement by Ailes saying Fox News has a right-wing agenda and I'll believe you.
If you agree that all they care about is the ratings, then why do you keep saying they have a political agenda?
It's clear from your words that you're biased against the Right and favor the Left. "I don't support either side, but the Left is super and the Right is terrible!" says it all. I'm not new to leftists feigning centrism or independence. It's 'cool' to be independent, not to mention it gives one credibility among nonpolitical people. Edited by DragonLegend, Jun 23 2011, 01:48 PM.
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| MaxJ | Jun 23 2011, 02:09 PM Post #154 |
Wij van A414A adviseren A414A
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Mostly maybe but by far not the whole vid. A comparisation of the Netherlands vs the USA is more fair since it reflects two countries and not a city and a country. Amsterdam has a high crime rate compared to the rest of the country but there are no real sources that tell me it is more criminal than other cities. Plus, where most other major cities account for a whole region(with rich and poor districts) is the city of Amsterdam only very small. All the richer and safer suburban towns are not counted as Amsterdam. But it's still pretty simple. In Amsterdam you might see somebody using drugs(human traficking is completely underground and is not related to Dutch civilians). But in New York or Chicago you might get a bullet in your head. What do you prefer? |
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Jouw wereld, jouw A414A forum. | |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 02:19 PM Post #155 |
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Field Marshal
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Gah! I can't stand Ron Bergundy.  Anyway, nowhere in that excruciatingly long video do I see any Fox News bias. It's simply about the claim that CNN didn't cover a certain protest.
Morning talk show discussing Christmas and Festivus. What am I supposed to see here?
He's trying to interview them, dude... He didn't say anything about his political beliefs.
What do you want me to see here? It's just a group of vulgar bastards.
Where's the bias? They're talking about a show by atheists, who seem rather militant and fringe. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 02:48 PM Post #156 |
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Field Marshal
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I don't think the O'Reilly show said anything about America. That's what I meant by straw man. The maker of the video made it seem as if the O'Reilly segment was about how America was better than the Netherlands when it comes to drug and prostitution crime, when the truth is that it was about how Amsterdam (and briefly the Netherlands) was bad when it comes to drugs and prostitution related crime. What's the homicide rate in Amsterdam? You can't compare America to the Netherlands, or America to Amsterdam. If you want to do it city by city, fine, but you have to tell me what Amsterdam's, not the Netherlands', murder rate actually is... NYC and Chicago aren't representative of America, but here are their crime rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago See the right side for the statistics. |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Jun 23 2011, 03:41 PM Post #157 |
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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The intention is to criticise O'Reilly's denigration of Amsterdam; since Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands, ill-feeling towards Amsterdam is very nearly identical to ill-feeling towards the Netherlands; and declare that he has no authority to do so when there are cities in the United States that are very much worse. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 04:46 PM Post #158 |
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Field Marshal
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I am pretty sure most American conservatives despise Washington D.C. If you think Amsterdam is a cesspool of crime and corruption, D.C. makes it look like a paradise. |
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| MaxJ | Jun 23 2011, 04:52 PM Post #159 |
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Wij van A414A adviseren A414A
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I don't see why it would not be possible to compare the USA to the Netherlands. And I really hope you don't think Amsterdam is representative of the Netherlands. But to give you an idea, in 2010 there were 170 homicides in the country of which 16 were in Amsterdam(rate of 2,05 against 15,6 for Chicago and 6,3 for New York). |
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Jouw wereld, jouw A414A forum. | |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 05:22 PM Post #160 |
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Field Marshal
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Because America isn't a single entity, and wasn't meant to be. Each state is sovereign and the federal government's role is supposed to be mostly limited to international and inter-state matters. It's comparable to a continent. The situation in each state is amazingly different. Illinois isn't Alaska. Boise isn't Los Angeles. It's a mind-bogglingly diverse country, and no one place is the same as another. The difference between most individual US states is akin to the difference between individual European nations. You can compare Idaho to England, for instance, but you can't compare America to the Netherlands. That would be like comparing Europe to a single US state. Where did you get the murder rate for Amsterdam, by the way? I looked everywhere and all I found was the crime rate for Amsterdam in New York.  Anyway, here are several large US cities with murder rates lower than or the same as Amsterdam's.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate What's the point, though? "A is worse than B, therefore B isn't bad" is nonsensical. All O'Reilly and those two women talked about is the drug and prostitution related crime. And they were generally right. |
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| Big Richard | Jun 23 2011, 05:54 PM Post #161 |
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Gay People Read This.
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"The troublesome record of spin by conservative television station Fox News has long been a cause for concern to many Americans, who frequently allege that the nation's most viewed "news" network has the effect of dumbing down voters. Turns out, they were right. A University of Maryland study (PDF) published earlier this month found that people in the survey who had the most exposure to Fox News were more likely to believe falsehoods and rumors about national and world affairs when compared to those who paid attention to other news outlets. In a summary carried by Alternet, the following falsehoods were most relayed by Fox News viewers: 91 percent believed the stimulus legislation lost jobs; 72 percent believed the health reform law will increase the deficit; 72 percent believed the economy is getting worse; 60 percent believed climate change is not occurring; 49 percent believed income taxes have gone up; 63 percent believed the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts; 56 percent believed Obama initiated the GM/Chrysler bailout; 38 percent believed that most Republicans opposed TARP; 63 percent believed Obama was not born in the U.S. (or that it is unclear). The poll's findings seem to sync with those of an NBC News survey (PDF) taken during the height of America's health care reform debate, where Fox News viewers were found to be most likely to have believed wildly inaccurate interpretations of the legislation. While Fox News and parent company News Corporation have long been criticized cheerleading Republican causes and conservative-allied business interests, it has been under more intense criticism of late over high profile donations to Republicans, deceptive video editing on multiple programs and even on-air GOP fundraisers" "Though the station claims to run "news" programming during the daytime, liberal watchdog group MediaMatters recently revealed a leaked email that shows one of the network's top editors ordering anchors to use terminology favored by conservatives." how the fuck did you miss all that? Are you seriously trying to tell me they're talking ONLY ABOUT NEWSCORP which is mentioned ONCE in the entire article and they don't even single it out. The second quote also talks about the 'NEWS" they run CLEARLY being biased. How are you honestly going to try and dismiss all this?! hannity and fox and friends aren't even mentioned in the raw story article, wtf are you talking about. Even the surveys they linked don't show any relation to hannity or fox and friends. "Alright I'll grant you that F&F manipulated Obama's statement to portray him differently, but........"  No. He said MSNBC shows the left side and they show THE OTHER. I don't understand how you're trying to complicate this simple concept. He didn't say "we show the left AND the other side" he said "they show the left, we show the other side". The only reason you'd believe he meant otherwise is because you are in denial. You're the one making assumptions clearly, not me. It matters because Wallace isn't a "personality", O'Reilly is. You don't have to believe me, you can stay delusional all you want. Ratings are based on their viewers, yes? Who are their viewers? The vast majority of whom are right-wingers so obviously they are keen to saying what their viewers want to hear. What they want to hear is anything against Obama such as deathbeds and claiming he was born in Kenya. That's not what I said. I said I don't support either but I have noticed those on the Left to be more logical and reasonable as opposed to the Right which is much more religious and illogical (such as being "pro-marriage* which of course means they are against marriage between homosexuals...which is illogical) but don't take my word for it, see it for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAl-riYzsgw I gain no credibility by saying I'm an independent so idk what you're yappin about. The left is bad with its ridiculous paternalism but the right is worse because it poses a moral high ground and are also ridiculous in their convictions, that doesn't mean I'm favoring the left, its a justifiable statement. "Lesser of two evils" would be the correct phrase here. I'm sorry if I'm breaking your perceptions of my political ideology, you are just so clearly on the Right so that whenever I make fun of you, you assume I'm championing the opposite.  |
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| Big Richard | Jun 23 2011, 06:21 PM Post #162 |
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Gay People Read This.
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I'm not highlighting bias, I'm showing you how FOX NEWS not any personality, lied. And here you are denying clear proof that they lied, I don't know why I continue trying to reason with you. I linked that video to show how often they lie or exaggerate to scare viewers. Because the beginning of this discussion was with me saying anything and everything on Fox is a bunch of shit, not just the news. They're not valid questions, in fact "do you not believe in freedom?!" is a ridiculous question to ask and you can see after he got mad his "professional" attitude switched off and he yelled what he really wanted to ask them. Asking outright if they believe in freedom is such a stupid question and is far from balanced or fair. It's not about the interviewer its about how he tries to portray the interviewees. I'm showing how there a lot of liberals who know Fox to be a bunch of shit just like you pointed out fox is "most trusted" amongst republicans and conservatives. Showing how pointless that claim was for you. "will they have a big audience? and of course NO. because the atheist population is 3-7% so they'll be preaching to a very small choir." "well now Christians argue that science has limits because it can't answer the elementary questions of a child like "who am I? and what is the purpose of my existence?" and saying science can't talk about morals." <- what purpose did that statement have in reporting about an atheist radio talk show other than to spark resistance or to create a divide? "and one of the reasons you can point to ..er.e.rderp derp... that atheists occupy very elitist positions" sounds like a pretty biased way to begin a claim. "but are they expecting they're actually going to draw an audience with a show like this?" "With a show like this?" if you can't detect the condescending tone in his voice you should get your ears checked. and a big "GODLESS RADIO" as a headline. wow. Godless, lol what a ridiculous way to label an atheist. and how at all are they militant? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(radio_network) of course you would get that idea after watching the biased video. |
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| Big Richard | Jun 23 2011, 06:23 PM Post #163 |
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Gay People Read This.
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im done with the discussion btw I don't need to convince you that Fox news and all of their associates are bunch of dipshits and crazy people, just remember "tide goes in, tide goes out, never a miscommunication. Can't explain it." --Proof of God by Bill O'Reilly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BCipg71LbI |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Jun 23 2011, 06:28 PM Post #164 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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The proportions of this argument are breathtaking. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 06:55 PM Post #165 |
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Field Marshal
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Rawstory's examples of Fox News editing clips, fundraising for the GOP, etc. were all about Newscorp and opinion shows, not Fox News itself. Rawstory is a leftist rag; I couldn't care less what they have to say about Fox. I was responding to their 'evidence' of Fox's bias. Wallace doesn't run Fox. He's a TV personality. Give me a statement by Ailes admitting Fox's right-wing agenda. None of the 'lies' you mentioned were ever spread on Fox News. "Deathbeds"? I think you mean death panels, and I don't remember Fox spreading that 'lie.' I'm not aware of any Birther nonsense, either. You are so clearly leftist it's astonishing how you keep denying it. You have nothing but praise for the Left and nothing but disdain for the Right. You say you have a problem with bias, yet, coincidentally, the most biased in your opinion are the Right. You even defended CNN and MSNBC. Let me ask you something. Have you ever watched Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, or read the New York Times, LA Times, TIME, Newsweek, or any of the other media? And to what extent? What makes you qualified to outright claim Fox News is the worst? |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 07:03 PM Post #166 |
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Field Marshal
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Speak of the Devil. Here's a flat-out lie in the NYT today (note: this is news, not an op-ed):
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/us/politics/22costs.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&pagewanted=all Even the liberal Ezra Klein says the NYT is wrong. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-past-present-and-future-of-the-deficit/2011/05/19/AF2GsB7G_blog.html What do you have to say about this, Richard? |
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| gs | Jun 23 2011, 07:06 PM Post #167 |
Slow down
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what about baltimore 
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| MaxJ | Jun 23 2011, 07:15 PM Post #168 |
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Wij van A414A adviseren A414A
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Google "aantal moorden in Amsterdam". First result: http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/4/AMSTERDAM/article/detail/1365815/2010/12/28/Aantal-moorden-in-Amsterdam-gehalveerd.dhtml. Good for you that some provincial cities have a lower murder rate than a world city like Amsterdam. I guess that's a good comparisation O'Reilly makes it seem like that. He doesn't make a fair statement but makes the crime look bad(altough all crime is bad, even the most simple theft) while it is not that bad looking to his own country. Next to this did he make a few big lies. |
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Jouw wereld, jouw A414A forum. | |
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| gs | Jun 23 2011, 07:24 PM Post #169 |
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Slow down
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16 murders in amsterdam means 2 per 100.000 inhabitants, which is lower than both dragon's examples. and in washington it's 23. yes, amsterdam stands out to the rest of the country when it comes to crime which is only logical, but if you compare it to US large cities it's gonna seem like a very peaceful place ;/ |
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| Big Richard | Jun 23 2011, 07:28 PM Post #170 |
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Gay People Read This.
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lol dismiss anything against fox as leftist or targeting an opinion show then he goes on to talk about something not even related. lmfao. such a clown, dragon. |
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| gs | Jun 23 2011, 07:32 PM Post #171 |
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Slow down
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate multiply everything by 100 and you have stats per 100.000 inhabitants. amsterdam homicide rate is 2. 90% of the cities listed there have more, mostly way more. |
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| Jack the IV | Jun 23 2011, 07:55 PM Post #172 |
The Gent's Club
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Because we have mexicans and black people |
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In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains, On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows, In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame, The good deeds a man has done before defend him. | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Jun 23 2011, 08:42 PM Post #173 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Yeah the niggers they be stabbing us in our sleep. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 08:51 PM Post #174 |
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Field Marshal
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Plano, El Paso, Honolulu, Lincoln, Anaheim, Austin, Portland, Raleigh and others aren't tiny, irrelevant cities... Why do you have a problem with comparing Amsterdam to "provincial cities" (I don't know what that means ), but are okay with comparing a gigantic, diverse nation like America to a small, homogenous country like the Netherlands? You know I'm not a fan of O'Reilly. I've made quite a few threads about him and said I didn't like him. But all he said is that Amsterdam/Netherlands has a lot of drug/prostitution-related crime. And the Wikipedia articles I quoted above seem to agree. Regardless of how much crime there is in America, that doesn't change the facts about crime in other countries. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 08:53 PM Post #175 |
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Field Marshal
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Whatever, Richard. I really need to stop making the mistake of getting into arguments with you. 
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| gs | Jun 23 2011, 10:14 PM Post #176 |
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Slow down
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it's not about what he literally says it's about the picture he paints. if you say a certain city or country has high crime rates people will obviously assume you meant it has a higher crime rate than usual, that it's abnormal. why else would you mention it, especially on national TV... but it's not abnormal. for a city with nearly a million inhabitants the crime rates are relatively LOW even. at least when compared to american cities with the same population. saying it has a high crime rate paints the wrong picture because it suggests the crime rate is higher than usual which it is not. if you were talking about baltimore, then you could say it has a high drug related crime rate. not amsterdam. |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 10:43 PM Post #177 |
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Field Marshal
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They said there's a lot of drug and prostitution related crime. That's it. They didn't say anything about America. |
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| Jam | Jun 23 2011, 11:07 PM Post #178 |
Fruit Based Jam
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"It's absolutely run out of control, completely run amok..." "Amsterdam is a mess..." "Amsterdam is a cesspool of corruption, crime, everything is out of control, it's anarchy." It's called sensationalism. |
| Long live Carolus | |
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| DragonLegend | Jun 23 2011, 11:24 PM Post #179 |
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Field Marshal
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Or, exaggeration to make a point. |
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| gs | Jun 23 2011, 11:43 PM Post #180 |
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Slow down
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no they said a lot more than that but even if they hadn't (and i made this exact point in my last post), if you say something like "the crime rate is high" you're suggesting it's higher than usual which it is not. if i say you're a bad person, you will interpret that as me saying you're a worse person than is normal. the crime rate in amsterdam is completely normal for a big, central city. it's nothing out of the ordinary. them calling it a complete mess is suggesting otherwise. it paints a picture of amsterdam that is completely inaccurate. |
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