incog

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incog
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 13 2011, 02:59 AM (3,644 Views)
_Saladin_	Aug 16 2011, 11:51 PM Post #91
Major Bullshit Posts: 2,763 Group: A414A Member Member #28 Joined: January 1, 2008	Incog Aug 16 2011, 05:50 PM _Saladin_ Aug 16 2011, 04:48 PM Double post. Delete. i couldn't bring myself to delete one of sal's post, so i'm just going to quote it. This needs to be quoted for emphasis.



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 01:21 AM Post #92
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	_Saladin_ Aug 16 2011, 04:45 PM That's bs. He's stated dozens of times that he knows there might be consequences, but it's obvious that the benefits far outweigh the risk. That's what he's saying. I know he has. But he keeps saying I oppose legalization because I pointed out there are both benefits and consequences... Edited by DragonLegend, Aug 17 2011, 01:22 AM.



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 01:36 AM Post #93
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Redemption Aug 16 2011, 05:57 PM DragonLegend Aug 16 2011, 03:29 AM I've said about a dozen times that drugs should be legalized... It sounds like you think only two possible things can happen: it's legalized and nothing bad happens, or it's kept illegal and the country remains a Hell on Earth. Then what the hell are you worrying about? No government policy is infallible. Everything will have positive and negative consequences. Worrying about legalization with the line of thinking of "Oh crap, think of what could go wrong" is a major cop-out. I already gave you several specific reasons why I'm worried about legalization. Analyzing the advantages and disadvantages of a major change in US law and policy is logical and the right thing to do, not a cop-out. You can't go around implementing radical policies without taking into account the consequences of that action. Yes, it might reduce organized crime, but dangerous criminals in prison for marijuana crimes might be released. Yes it might increase freedom in the country, but it could damage society. etc. I already said that I think it should be legalized, yet you keep saying I oppose it.



Big Richard	Aug 17 2011, 07:24 AM Post #94
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MmwrBt5dg&feature=related this reminds me of incog



Incog	Aug 17 2011, 09:01 AM Post #95
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Big Richard Aug 17 2011, 07:24 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MmwrBt5dg&feature=related this reminds me of incog didn't watch it but the title pleases me WE ARE ALL EVIL but ofc if everyone is evil then no one is really evil, since it's a relative thing. dmanit
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 17 2011, 09:07 AM Post #96
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	men even the bible admits we're sinful creatures omg it all adds up now
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Aug 17 2011, 09:49 AM Post #97
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 17 2011, 09:58 AM Post #98
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	those girls are hot
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Incog	Aug 17 2011, 10:18 AM Post #99
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	yeh they are smoking hot
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 17 2011, 11:03 AM Post #100
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Jam	Aug 17 2011, 02:51 PM Post #101
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	I'd take a hit of that.
	Long live Carolus


Vondongo	Aug 17 2011, 06:02 PM Post #102
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 17 2011, 01:36 AM Redemption Aug 16 2011, 05:57 PM DragonLegend Aug 16 2011, 03:29 AM I've said about a dozen times that drugs should be legalized... It sounds like you think only two possible things can happen: it's legalized and nothing bad happens, or it's kept illegal and the country remains a Hell on Earth. Then what the hell are you worrying about? No government policy is infallible. Everything will have positive and negative consequences. Worrying about legalization with the line of thinking of "Oh crap, think of what could go wrong" is a major cop-out. I already gave you several specific reasons why I'm worried about legalization. Analyzing the advantages and disadvantages of a major change in US law and policy is logical and the right thing to do, not a cop-out. You can't go around implementing radical policies without taking into account the consequences of that action. Yes, it might reduce organized crime, but dangerous criminals in prison for marijuana crimes might be released. Yes it might increase freedom in the country, but it could damage society. etc. I already said that I think it should be legalized, yet you keep saying I oppose it. Yes I am, because you don't sound like you support the legalization aspect of it at all. I mean, you say you do, but you say nothing to back it up, only of the negative ramnifications. You mention having specific reasons? Here is what you said earlier, and I quote: Quote: I don't know. That's the thing about unintended consequences. You never know everything that could happen. Legalizing pot brings with it regulation and taxation. Who knows what that could cause? Also, a lot of dangerous criminals are in prison because of marijuana-related crimes. The authorities couldn't convict them for their serious crimes, but were able to convict them for violating the marijuana ban. Plus, a lot of people (e.g., witnesses) cooperate with the authorities because they're threatened with prosecution for marijuana crimes. Who knows what else? You're being so vague. The issues of taxation and regulation? The "Violation" of rights "beyond belief"? What, that people can't smoke in close proximity to non-smokers? Smoking's not something like gay marriage or firearms. If you smoke in close proximity to someone else, you're passing on the fumes and toxins via second-hand smoke. That smoke is a public health hazard, however minor it may be. I don't agree with the breadth of the restrictions, but it's not like the equally-reviled gun control. Having a loaded gun in public doesn't hurt anyone (unless you shoot it with the intention of injuring someone). Having a lit cigarette in an enclosed space can damage the health of someone else, especially if they have a respiratory condition such as asthma. You don't have to have any intention other than to smoke it, but that alone endangers the health of other people. A lot of dangerous criminals, you say. Like what, guys who sell harder drugs? Or gangbangers and gunmen who fight over what...drugs? If that shit wasn't illegal, they wouldn't be able to fight over it nearly as much because big business would be spewing it out of factories so cheap that the illegal trade in it would wither (again, see prohibition). I understand you have your reasons, but they're not very deep and you seem to be worrying a lot based on them.



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 07:26 PM Post #103
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Redemption Aug 17 2011, 06:02 PM Yes I am, because you don't sound like you support the legalization aspect of it at all. I mean, you say you do, but you say nothing to back it up, only of the negative ramnifications. So... I'm lying? For what reason, exactly? Do tell. Quote: You're being so vague. The issues of taxation and regulation? Yes. Drugs are bad. It's possible the nanny state will impose insane regulations to discourage it. Users could get fed up with it and a black market emerges [again]. You don't know. You act as if it would definitely be all rainbows and lollipops after legalization, with nothing not going as desired. Quote: The "Violation" of rights "beyond belief"? What, that people can't smoke in close proximity to non-smokers? Smoking's not something like gay marriage or firearms. If you smoke in close proximity to someone else, you're passing on the fumes and toxins via second-hand smoke. That smoke is a public health hazard, however minor it may be. I don't agree with the breadth of the restrictions, but it's not like the equally-reviled gun control. Having a loaded gun in public doesn't hurt anyone (unless you shoot it with the intention of injuring someone). Having a lit cigarette in an enclosed space can damage the health of someone else, especially if they have a respiratory condition such as asthma. You don't have to have any intention other than to smoke it, but that alone endangers the health of other people. What about insane taxes? Disgusting labels on cigarette packs? Or this? Or this? Or this? If you don't like smoke (and I can't stand it), go somewhere else. If you don't like the sound of speeding cars, stay away from the road. If you don't like the rap music kids listen to outside while playing, stay inside. You have no right not to be inconvenienced. Quote: A lot of dangerous criminals, you say. Like what, guys who sell harder drugs? Or gangbangers and gunmen who fight over what...drugs? If that shit wasn't illegal, they wouldn't be able to fight over it nearly as much because big business would be spewing it out of factories so cheap that the illegal trade in it would wither (again, see prohibition). Did you read my posts? I specified who I was referring to and there's no need to repeat it over and over. Quote: I understand you have your reasons, but they're not very deep and you seem to be worrying a lot based on them. I'm worried because legalizing drugs, while the right thing to do from a liberty perspective, could have many terrible consequences. Perhaps an analogy would be appropriate: you support going to war, but you're also aware of the unimaginable suffering it causes.



Vondongo	Aug 17 2011, 07:44 PM Post #104
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	I'm not saying you're lying, but you sound so unenthusiastic about it. As if you, yourself, aren't really convinced. Okay yeah, there will be some regulations, if we want to be realistic about things, but they're not going to cripple the sale of the drugs via legitimate companies. As long as they keep the prices of the "legal" equivalents of the drugs at a price equal to or lesser than what the dealers and cartels make it, the dealers and cartels will lose, because most people will prefer to buy from a legal dealer if available (that's why I mentioned that licensing practice). If the "legal" versions are cheaper and more convenient, very few people will end up buying illegally compared to the number that do now. The problem with the "If you don't like it, then go away" is that the smoking is a health hazard, as I previously mentioned. The gun and the gay marriage are NOT health hazards. You shouldn't have to leave a place because someone else introduced something toxic to your personal space. That's infringing on a person's own right to life, the most basic and sacred of the three Lockean rights. You mention the following as criminals: Quote: I am talking about people who commit serious crimes but get imprisoned for marijuana-related crimes, either by accident (meaning, you commit a murder, never get caught, but then you get caught dealing pot) or intentionally (meaning, the police know you committed murder, but for some reason can't convict you, so they decide to prosecute you for a drug law violation). How do you think they got Al Capone? Tax evasion. Even though everyone knew his list of crimes was far longer and more serious than that. You know how Capone got so powerful? Contraband alcohol. If that wasn't an issue, he would've had a much tougher time getting where he was. I mean, you aren't going to eradicate crime altogether by legalizing drugs, but so much of the violent crime and organized crime is related to drugs nowadays. Where did you say you live? Bahrain? Come to Baltimore, or better yet, the neighborhood of West Baltimore, and see how long you can drive through the city without seeing a drug deal going on. It wouldn't take half an hour, including the traffic lights. Maybe not even fifteen minutes. And do you know how bad our violent crime is? It's among the worst in the country. And we have some of the worst rates of drug abuse. Do you think these two things are unrelated?



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 08:09 PM Post #105
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Redemption Aug 17 2011, 07:44 PM I'm not saying you're lying, but you sound so unenthusiastic about it. As if you, yourself, aren't really convinced. Okay yeah, there will be some regulations, if we want to be realistic about things, but they're not going to cripple the sale of the drugs via legitimate companies. As long as they keep the prices of the "legal" equivalents of the drugs at a price equal to or lesser than what the dealers and cartels make it, the dealers and cartels will lose, because most people will prefer to buy from a legal dealer if available (that's why I mentioned that licensing practice). If the "legal" versions are cheaper and more convenient, very few people will end up buying illegally compared to the number that do now. I'm unenthusiastic because those drugs are bad and I'm not happy about them being legal, but I can't force my views on others, so I have no right to support keeping drugs illegal. What if legal drugs aren't cheaper and more convenient? That's what I'm saying. That could happen. It's a possibility. Quote: The problem with the "If you don't like it, then go away" is that the smoking is a health hazard, as I previously mentioned. The gun and the gay marriage are NOT health hazards. You shouldn't have to leave a place because someone else introduced something toxic to your personal space. That's infringing on a person's own right to life, the most basic and sacred of the three Lockean rights. So ban cars? Or anything that causes noise [pollution]? How far are you willing to go? The Lockean right to life is about life, not convenience. Quote: You know how Capone got so powerful? Contraband alcohol. If that wasn't an issue, he would've had a much tougher time getting where he was. I mean, you aren't going to eradicate crime altogether by legalizing drugs, but so much of the violent crime and organized crime is related to drugs nowadays. Where did you say you live? Bahrain? Come to Baltimore, or better yet, the neighborhood of West Baltimore, and see how long you can drive through the city without seeing a drug deal going on. It wouldn't take half an hour, including the traffic lights. Maybe not even fifteen minutes. And do you know how bad our violent crime is? It's among the worst in the country. And we have some of the worst rates of drug abuse. Do you think these two things are unrelated? I'm aware of the crime in Baltimore, but nothing in that paragraph is at all relevant to what you quoted.



Vondongo	Aug 17 2011, 08:29 PM Post #106
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Cars are different because they're a necessary means of transportation with no other developed alternatives in this country. Railways aren't developed enough and bicycles are too slow and unable to carry so much weight. I'm not a fan of cars, honestly (I've said it before on this board but I much prefer rails) but they provide so much service to people that they're a necessary evil. Without cars, society in this country would collapse, at least temporarily, because our infrastructure isn't designed for anything else. Smoking is a vice that someone does on their own time because they can't keep the urge down, and they can VERY easily do it in a place that doesn't impede on other people. I don't expect people to tolerate me masturbating in their faces in public places. I just go home, shut the door to my bedroom or bathroom and do my business. Why should smokers have it any better? People committing serious/violent crimes and organized crime his not at all relevant to a drug problem. Right.



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 08:52 PM Post #107
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	You said that smoking should be banned in public because it violates the right to life. Now you're saying easy transportation is a perfectly good reason to violate people's right to life? Maybe I don't like the pollution cars create. It violates my right to life, it hurts my health, therefore I have every right to ban cars in public. That's your argument here. I'm not a troll, but you're in love with that straw man. Please tell me how every violent crime is related to drugs.



Vondongo	Aug 17 2011, 09:00 PM Post #108
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Never said anything about how smoking should or shouldn't be banned in public. I pointed out that I can understand action taken against it, and lo and behold, action has been taken against cars, too (see: emissions standards), due to the inherent dangers that they cause. You accuse me of using a straw man. Yet you say that me doubting your statement that me talking about drugs and violent crime is in a context where "nothing in that paragraph is at all relevant" and now want me to defend the position of "how every violent crime is related to drugs." lolwut?



DragonLegend	Aug 17 2011, 09:10 PM Post #109
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Cars aren't banned in public. Smoking is (in some places). Regardless of whether you support it, that's what we're discussing here. I said there are violent criminals out there who don't get caught and prosecuted for their violent crimes, but get prosecuted and imprisoned for other (related or unrelated), drug crimes. If drugs were legalized, should rapists who are in prison for violating drug laws be released? That's one of the examples I mentioned. Your response was, "People sell drugs in Baltimore", "violent crime and drugs are related", drug abuse rates, and a Capone history lesson. How is that at all related to what I said? :\|



Vondongo	Aug 17 2011, 09:19 PM Post #110
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	As I said, cars don't have any kind of alternative that rival them in range, speed, and cost efficiency that average people can access. Smoking is just done to for the sake of instant gratification, just like masturbation. You can also go and smoke somewhere else, like your house, rather than in public. You can't drive a car to get from point A to point B within the confines of your house. Automobiles and smoking are both health hazards, but it's so easy for someone who's smoking to go do it away from the public to fulfill their addiction. It's not so simple to do the same with driving a car, unless you want to ride a bike, and in the US, this simply isn't practical. You're talking about drugs, violent crime, violent criminals, and Al Capone. All four of those things were addressed. How many definite rapists are out there who are imprisoned for drug crimes? How much of a segment are they of the prison population, or even just among rapists? Sure, some people will slip through the cracks over drug convictions being overturned, but so many of these people are criminals in violence or in trafficking in the process of dealing with drugs, anyway. If drugs weren't illegal, people like those would have a much smaller outlet with which to commit cirmes.



DragonLegend	Aug 19 2011, 08:43 AM Post #111
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	There's nothing I can say about that that I haven't said already. Look, Red, all I said is that legalizing drugs has both positive and negative consequences. You agreed. So I don't know what we're discussing. I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing.



gs	Aug 19 2011, 09:39 AM Post #112
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	dragon it's a bit easy to bring up tons of arguments why drug legalization is a bad idea then say you're not against it just to get out of replying. clearly you're against it, i haven't read a single post by you that was positive about it.



DragonLegend	Aug 19 2011, 10:41 AM Post #113
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	... Then why did I say I support it?



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 19 2011, 04:46 PM Post #114
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	You're looking to deceive us, oh you perfidious crook you.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


gs	Aug 19 2011, 05:23 PM Post #115
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	what does everyone think about legalizing all drugs btw?



Jack the IV	Aug 19 2011, 06:01 PM Post #116
The Gent's Club Posts: 7,869 Group: Mr. Pink Member #43 Joined: February 19, 2008	Not heroin, coke, and meth shit. That shit fucks you up.
	In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains, On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows, In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame, The good deeds a man has done before defend him.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 19 2011, 06:10 PM Post #117
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	gs Aug 19 2011, 05:23 PM what does everyone think about legalizing all drugs btw? I'm pretty sure this post was something different a little earlier <__<
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


gs	Aug 19 2011, 06:36 PM Post #118
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	yeah turned out i cba i think everything should be legal except heroin and anything they use in medicine so we don't build up immunity



Incog	Aug 19 2011, 06:38 PM Post #119
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Ultra-Musketeer Aug 19 2011, 04:46 PM You're looking to deceive us, oh you perfidious crook you. oh i love these sort of words and expressions. :D
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


Jam	Aug 19 2011, 07:00 PM Post #120
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	Flowers.
	Long live Carolus


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