Whats become of everyone?

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Whats become of everyone?; Curiosity and Nostalgia
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 14 2011, 08:47 PM (2,624 Views)
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 20 2011, 03:56 PM Post #91
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	They didn't have magic back then.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Ali Skahir	Aug 20 2011, 04:09 PM Post #92
Corporal Posts: 28 Group: Member Member #242 Joined: August 14, 2011	Ultra-Musketeer Aug 20 2011, 03:56 PM They didn't have magic back then. I'm sure there were all sorts of conjurers and illusionists in those times. I saw a documentary on the history channel, and Jesus's entire life was prophecized, how he would first appear, the things he would do and say. It wouldn't have been hard to read the prophecy, and then go out and do the things yourself if you happened to be born at the right time. If someone made a prophecy that said "whoever rode an albino elephant to New York, and claimed some stuff about X,y and Z would be the true [_______________] " and then someone read it and decided to do it, it doesnt mean the prophecy is true, it just means someone read it and acted it out. Jesus probably did exist, but he was no son of god, he was a guy born at the right time, who acted out a prophecy. A lot of the super-natural claims about jesus, and a lot of the miracles he performed were written many many years after the fact... So you probably got a lot of distorted stories and greatly exaggerated ones. Also Nazareth isn't even a real town, the Catholic church bought an already existing town sometime in the 1600's i think, and they renamed it Nazareth. (as to enforce the story that Jesus was real) So wherever Jesus was from, it wasn't really Nazareth. Edited by Ali Skahir, Aug 20 2011, 08:08 PM.



Incog	Aug 20 2011, 05:39 PM Post #93
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	yeah I think something like that is more probable.
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


DragonLegend	Aug 21 2011, 11:13 AM Post #94
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Jamerson Aug 20 2011, 05:34 AM DragonLegend Aug 20 2011, 04:21 AM That is in direct contradiction to your avowed actions in this thread. You had a sexual relationship with a woman for purely selfish reasons, then dumped her as if she was a mere sex object. That is because the view that being 'good' (what is 'good'? Isn't morality subjective to non-spiritual, irreligious people?) simply because it's the right thing to do is nonsensical if there's no objective standard of morality. And why should your or any religion get to decide the "objective standard of morality"? I didn't tell the full story because I shouldn't have to explain my personal life to an internet stranger to prove my morality, but in any case I didn't know she was cheating on her boyfriend to be with me at the time. I believed she had ended it officially. I said it was a life goal, because when I look at it in retrospect, its something that in high school I always thought about: being with the cool chick that the popular rocker guy gets to date. So for me this was a chance to say I did that. Its not as if I purposefully stalked a rocker guy, found out if he had a girlfriend, maliciously seduced her, brought her to my house, banged her, had her make me a sammich, and then kicked her out... That's not what I got from your post. You edited it, so it's gone now. I don't remember the exact words, but I remember what I felt when I read it. The height of immorality, Jamerson. You acted as if the world and everything in it exists for you. It's shameful, and I'm more sad than angry, because it's probably not your fault you're like this, but if you were good and strong enough, you could leave that immoral insanity behind you and make up for your actions. I have to apologize. I didn't mean to seem hostile to you on your first day. I don't know enough about you to judge whether you're a good person or not. All my statements about you in this thread are based on what you've said for everyone to hear.



DragonLegend	Aug 21 2011, 11:18 AM Post #95
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Incog Aug 20 2011, 06:49 AM Quote: For Heaven's sakes, I said that insignificant minority beliefs don't shape society (as in, their beliefs don't become the norm, or widespread), not that people with fringe beliefs are incapable of murdering members of society. I thought I misunderstood that. Ok, what about Jesus and his cronies before Christianity was wide-spread? That doesn't change anything. When Christians were a small minority, their beliefs weren't the norm. I don't see atheism becoming a majority or even large minority view any time soon.



Incog	Aug 21 2011, 11:29 AM Post #96
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 11:18 AM Incog Aug 20 2011, 06:49 AM Quote: For Heaven's sakes, I said that insignificant minority beliefs don't shape society (as in, their beliefs don't become the norm, or widespread), not that people with fringe beliefs are incapable of murdering members of society. I thought I misunderstood that. Ok, what about Jesus and his cronies before Christianity was wide-spread? That doesn't change anything. When Christians were a small minority, their beliefs weren't the norm. I don't see atheism becoming a majority or even large minority view any time soon. For Hell's sake, my point is that an insignificant minority will shape society given the time. It happened with Christianity, their beliefs became a norm, even if Christians were a minority. As for atheism... well believe it or not most people here in France don't give a fuck about religion. I know one person (a Muslim) who actively prays and talks about religion and he's an Arabic who came into France to do his studies, he's not staying here permanently. I dislike him btw, if only because he's talked rather nastily to my ladyfriend. Before he did that though, I didn't really have a problem with him. Even though he was being a pretentious asshole about some things, like me eating pork in our room (we were room mates). That said, my point is that no one cares about religion. I know a few people who believe in a higher being but were bored and disliked going to Church when they were forced to. Most people are here are atheists, or at very least deists. I don't know where you live, but atheism is very strong here and nothing like a minority. Also note that the people I know have no problem with religious people either, so we're not the immoral assholes you describe us as.
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


DragonLegend	Aug 21 2011, 11:45 AM Post #97
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	I know atheism/agnosticism/irreligion is common in Europe, and is or is expected to be a majority/near-majority view in many Western countries. But I was talking about America. Although, if you want to talk about the world, then theists far outnumber atheists, and always will as far as we know, since their birth rates (think third world) are far higher than those of atheists/agnostics. I know not all irreligious people are immoral bastards who live to make life as intolerable as possible for religious people. That goes without saying...



Incog	Aug 21 2011, 11:55 AM Post #98
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	Well obviously there are more theists in the USA. When I lived there people were shocked and appalled at my atheism. They were scared, they were. All the more fun. I don't mind them, they're far away. But theism as a majority won't last long, not in my opinion. Give it a few generations. And yes obviously world-wide theism dominates. I'd go as far as saying the more a country is developed, the more atheists you'll find, but you wouldn't agree to that, now would you? Edited by Incog, Aug 21 2011, 11:56 AM.
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


Incog	Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM Post #99
CHEERIO! Posts: 21,769 Group: French Member #6 Joined: December 13, 2007	And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why.
	Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great.


DragonLegend	Aug 21 2011, 12:04 PM Post #100
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Maybe. But what are the odds of the third world becoming developed? Not very promising. Even having a free, developed, liberal society isn't guaranteed to destroy spirituality. Take America, for example:



DragonLegend	Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM Post #101
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	Incog Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why. As I said, it has little to do with atheism or religion. I called him immoral because of his actions (the girl). The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality.



gs	Aug 21 2011, 12:40 PM Post #102
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 11:13 AM Jamerson Aug 20 2011, 05:34 AM DragonLegend Aug 20 2011, 04:21 AM That is in direct contradiction to your avowed actions in this thread. You had a sexual relationship with a woman for purely selfish reasons, then dumped her as if she was a mere sex object. That is because the view that being 'good' (what is 'good'? Isn't morality subjective to non-spiritual, irreligious people?) simply because it's the right thing to do is nonsensical if there's no objective standard of morality. And why should your or any religion get to decide the "objective standard of morality"? I didn't tell the full story because I shouldn't have to explain my personal life to an internet stranger to prove my morality, but in any case I didn't know she was cheating on her boyfriend to be with me at the time. I believed she had ended it officially. I said it was a life goal, because when I look at it in retrospect, its something that in high school I always thought about: being with the cool chick that the popular rocker guy gets to date. So for me this was a chance to say I did that. Its not as if I purposefully stalked a rocker guy, found out if he had a girlfriend, maliciously seduced her, brought her to my house, banged her, had her make me a sammich, and then kicked her out... That's not what I got from your post. You edited it, so it's gone now. I don't remember the exact words, but I remember what I felt when I read it. The height of immorality, Jamerson. You acted as if the world and everything in it exists for you. It's shameful, and I'm more sad than angry, because it's probably not your fault you're like this, but if you were good and strong enough, you could leave that immoral insanity behind you and make up for your actions. taking it a little far bro



_Saladin_	Aug 21 2011, 01:02 PM Post #103
Major Bullshit Posts: 2,763 Group: A414A Member Member #28 Joined: January 1, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM Incog Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why. As I said, it has little to do with atheism or religion. I called him immoral because of his actions (the girl). The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality. Why does morality have to be objective? Why can't you have a reasoned, thought out morality? Hint: you can. In fact, that's why morals have been changing since the beginning of the human race. How would you even know what this all knowing being wants you to do? It certainly isn't from Christianity or Islam, because there are quite a few things I disagree with in regards to morality coming from them. But I'll bite. Let's say that god exists. How do you plan on knowing his morality? A religion? How do you know that religion is actually god's word? Say it is god's word, how do you know that it's holy book wasn't altered or tampered with? Say it wasn't tampered with, how do you know god wasn't lying to you? Maybe gods morality includes lying and he was just messing with us? Assumptions on top of assumptions. You know how many assumptions I need to arrive at a practical morality? None. Just discuss it and think it through with your fellow man.



gs	Aug 21 2011, 01:13 PM Post #104
Slow down Posts: 16,297 Group: Animals Member #1 Joined: December 12, 2007	_Saladin_ Aug 21 2011, 01:02 PM DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM Incog Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why. As I said, it has little to do with atheism or religion. I called him immoral because of his actions (the girl). The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality. Why does morality have to be objective? Why can't you have a reasoned, thought out morality? Hint: you can. In fact, that's why morals have been changing since the beginning of the human race. How would you even know what this all knowing being wants you to do? It certainly isn't from Christianity or Islam, because there are quite a few things I disagree with in regards to morality coming from them. But I'll bite. Let's say that god exists. How do you plan on knowing his morality? A religion? How do you know that religion is actually god's word? Say it is god's word, how do you know that it's holy book wasn't altered or tampered with? Say it wasn't tampered with, how do you know god wasn't lying to you? Maybe gods morality includes lying and he was just messing with us? Assumptions on top of assumptions. You know how many assumptions I need to arrive at a practical morality? None. Just discuss it and think it through with your fellow man. i've asked these questions in another thread and never got an acceptable answer. it's amusing how dragon calls people immoral and insists you need an objective morality so that you can have boundaries, but fails to realise that his 'objective' morality is based entirely on assumptions. edit: http://s15.zetaboards.com/A414A_clan/topic/7058491/4/



_Saladin_	Aug 21 2011, 01:39 PM Post #105
Major Bullshit Posts: 2,763 Group: A414A Member Member #28 Joined: January 1, 2008	The classic mistake is that he automatically assumes he's right.



Ichigo1uk	Aug 21 2011, 03:15 PM Post #106
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	People's mentality is fragile, they'll always be people believing in a higher power. This is because then there's a chance of "living" after death. All animals strive to survive, Religion is just another example of clinging onto life.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


Jam	Aug 21 2011, 03:57 PM Post #107
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdgCxK4VUA Btw, the definition of moral objectivity is that what is moral is the same for everyone, independent of culture, religion, race, etc. What you are describing seems to be Divine Command Theory which is actually a subjective form of morality. You should read the criticisms section. Quote: This is because then there's a chance of "living" after death. All animals strive to survive, Religion is just another example of clinging onto life. There is a lot more to religion than that, to say that the only appeal is denial of death is ignorant.
	Long live Carolus


Big Richard	Aug 21 2011, 07:10 PM Post #108
Gay People Read This. Posts: 5,323 Group: World's Finest Member #113 Joined: July 26, 2008	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:04 PM Maybe. But what are the odds of the third world becoming developed? Not very promising. Even having a free, developed, liberal society isn't guaranteed to destroy spirituality. Take America, for example: why is that poll taken at the oddest of times, I mean it lacks no real order other than seemingly random dates. also as for your "god's" objective morality, if you follow such a morality it is not truly moral because in many religions doing the right or wrong things leads to different consequences or rewards. If you choose not to lie because you'll go to heaven, thats not a truly moral decision because you're acting based on a reward. If you choose not to lie because if you do you'll go to hell, that's also not a truly moral decision because you're only doing so to avoid punishment.



Ichigo1uk	Aug 21 2011, 07:31 PM Post #109
Huh? Posts: 9,838 Group: A414A Member Member #10 Joined: December 14, 2007	Hyperactive Jam Aug 21 2011, 03:57 PM Quote: This is because then there's a chance of "living" after death. All animals strive to survive, Religion is just another example of clinging onto life. There is a lot more to religion than that, to say that the only appeal is denial of death is ignorant. Yet it is a common similarity in most large religions.
	Incog Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.


The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 21 2011, 07:41 PM Post #110
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Ambulation distances oneself from inertia.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


Ali Skahir	Aug 21 2011, 07:52 PM Post #111
Corporal Posts: 28 Group: Member Member #242 Joined: August 14, 2011	DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM Incog Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why. As I said, it has little to do with atheism or religion. I called him immoral because of his actions (the girl). The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality. The first time I wrote the post, I said it like this: "The girl I had been seeing had been coming to my house after school for 3 weeks, and then I finished with her ass, and she wanted remain 'lol friends' I dont even talk to her anymore, hahaha" something along those lines, I wrote it like that because the memory still makes me bitter, but after i read it, I didn't like how it came across. That has nothing to do with morality, its just a sour memory, and that makes me write about it impulsively without thinking about how it sounds



Ali Skahir	Aug 21 2011, 08:01 PM Post #112
Corporal Posts: 28 Group: Member Member #242 Joined: August 14, 2011	Also, Morality is not an entirely objective matter. That is a lie that only people that live comfortably in the first world can truly believe. You've probably never had to make a life and death choice where everything wasn't so black and white, and clear-cut. When push comes to shove morality is highly subjective... Suppose 2 families were stuck on an island, and there was only enough food for 1 family to live on, if both families tried to share the food, they would all slowly starve to death. Is it right for one family to kill the other in order to survive? Or do they just all watch each other slowly starve? When I lived in Nicaragua, I had a maid. Once I caught her stealing. she was only stealing useless toys and gadgets my family didn't really need, she was going to sell them probably to buy food and clothing for her 4 kids. This woman was very poor. When we caught her stealing we fired her. Oh sure, you can say we should have given her another chance, maybe raised her pay so she wouldn't have to steal. But she wasn't going to stop stealing after getting caught once, she would have just gotten cleverer at stealing... Did we do the right thing? Was she right or wrong to steal? Wheres your objective morality here? Edited by Ali Skahir, Aug 21 2011, 08:09 PM.



Adams	Aug 21 2011, 11:44 PM Post #113
The Real Posts: 6,405 Group: A414A Member Member #2 Joined: December 12, 2007	See this is what I mean, I dont want to talk about this shit. I mean I could join in for the sake of it but fuck that



Jam	Aug 22 2011, 12:10 AM Post #114
Fruit Based Jam Posts: 7,945 Group: A414A Member Member #98 Joined: July 11, 2008	Yeah fuck that shit, it's cool to be anti-intellectual, shit yeah you know what I'm talkin' bout homies.
	Long live Carolus


Vondongo	Aug 22 2011, 12:47 AM Post #115
Moo. Posts: 5,434 Group: Member Member #130 Joined: October 15, 2008	Adams Aug 21 2011, 11:44 PM See this is what I mean, I dont want to talk about this shit. I mean I could join in for the sake of it but fuck that Make some threads then.



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 22 2011, 07:08 AM Post #116
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Hyperactive Jam Aug 22 2011, 12:10 AM Yeah fuck that shit, it's cool to be anti-intellectual, shit yeah you know what I'm talkin' bout homies.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


DragonLegend	Aug 22 2011, 05:56 PM Post #117
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	_Saladin_ Aug 21 2011, 01:02 PM DragonLegend Aug 21 2011, 12:14 PM Incog Aug 21 2011, 11:59 AM And I don't see how Jamerson is an immoral bastard. And I see even less how it's linked to atheism. Can you explain to me Dragon, how a religious person somehow knows what is moral and what isn't, and how an atheist wouldn't know? I'm ignorant as to why. As I said, it has little to do with atheism or religion. I called him immoral because of his actions (the girl). The only morality is objective morality. That requires an all-knowing being who can tell you what is or isn't undeniably right/wrong. So I wouldn't say nonspiritual people are immoral per se. They did grow up in a moral, spiritual society, so they generally know the difference between right and wrong (even if they don't admit it), but it's for the wrong reasons. Since they don't exactly believe in the source/s of their morality, the basis of their morality is very weak, and they could easily (and sometimes do) descend into immorality. Why does morality have to be objective? Why can't you have a reasoned, thought out morality? Hint: you can. In fact, that's why morals have been changing since the beginning of the human race. How would you even know what this all knowing being wants you to do? It certainly isn't from Christianity or Islam, because there are quite a few things I disagree with in regards to morality coming from them. But I'll bite. Let's say that god exists. How do you plan on knowing his morality? A religion? How do you know that religion is actually god's word? Say it is god's word, how do you know that it's holy book wasn't altered or tampered with? Say it wasn't tampered with, how do you know god wasn't lying to you? Maybe gods morality includes lying and he was just messing with us? Assumptions on top of assumptions. You know how many assumptions I need to arrive at a practical morality? None. Just discuss it and think it through with your fellow man. The reason human morality isn't objective (and therefore correct) is precisely because it's changed throughout the years. Which human being gets to decide what's right and what's wrong? You think incest is wrong. Other people don't. Who's right? Only an all-knowing being can know for certain whether something is true (moral) or not. Your argument is, "how do you know what the divine being's [correct] morality is?", not "how do you know the divine being's morality is correct?" That's irrelevant to this particular discussion, but the answer is divine revelation and faith.



DragonLegend	Aug 22 2011, 06:00 PM Post #118
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008	I guess I'll reply to everyone else tomorrow. Except Richard.



The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom	Aug 22 2011, 06:02 PM Post #119
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN Posts: 18,587 Group: A414A Member Member #35 Joined: January 11, 2008	Dragon. Tonight... you.
	Jam It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes


DragonLegend	Aug 22 2011, 06:18 PM Post #120
Field Marshal Posts: 15,575 Group: Member Member #40 Joined: January 19, 2008



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