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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 28 2014, 12:09 AM (1,415 Views) | |
| Incog | Mar 6 2014, 11:56 AM Post #61 |
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CHEERIO!
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indeed, laying off people in the public sector would lead to even more unemployment. you're right in pointing this out, I was incomplete in my first analysis. fuck, i have a lot of shit to do and not a lot of time to argue. however, i'll go through with this as at least it'll help pinpoint where the real problems are. so, why lay off people in the public sector? why lay off traffic controllers? train drivers? etc? the idea is that instead of employing a LOT of people to do a little work each, you employ way less people and have them work harder/longer. they also get a higher salary to compensate that, of course. take my example of 10 ticket controllers where only 5 are needed. that sort of thing. the extra people, who are now jobless, should be put to work somewhere else. this is a stupid analogy, but in sc2 you don't take both gas geysers right after throwing down your pool. the new jobless people should be put to work producing wealth in a more profitable sector. the government should spend money to give them the infrastructure needed to be able to produce wealth. new sector? what could that be? could be anything. we could start by bringing automobile production back in france, for example. the government could twiddle the numbers a bit so that automobile constructers can make a profit having actual french people make their cars. etc. i'll get back to you guys on this with fresh ideas. ! gtg now though |
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Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great. | |
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| Incog | Mar 6 2014, 11:59 AM Post #62 |
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CHEERIO!
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i'm not mad or anythiung and ifyou think about it, this discussion can only lead to the truth iff everyone remaisn calm/rational. so it's a good thing |
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Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great. | |
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| Incog | Mar 6 2014, 11:59 AM Post #63 |
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CHEERIO!
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no one should be pig headed about such things |
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Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great. | |
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| Ichigo1uk | Mar 6 2014, 02:34 PM Post #64 |
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Huh?
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We should all move to Germany, get paid more, work less, be happy. |
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| ryker | Mar 6 2014, 03:44 PM Post #65 |
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General
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I agree with Incog here. I cant remember who said it but someone said it would take more money to find the people abusing the system than it would take to just let them continue to abuse the system. I dont eccisarily agree with that. If each person looking for people found just 1 person a WEEK they would MORE THAN pay for their position. I am sorry GS but you are wrong on this issue. Normally my opinion is that you think VERY logically and I agree with almost all that you say but we may have to agree to disagree on this one. This article talks about how in some areas of America, you make MORE to not work than if you did. http://watchdog.org/102295/in-many-states-welfare-can-pay-better-than-an-honest-days-work/ http://www.welfareinfo.org/payments/ -a basic average guideline for the food stamp program will show that an average family of 4 can expect an amount up to $500 per month for food stamps. -A single person household will show an expected average of up to $200 per month. -an average expectation can be placed on a family of 4 receiving up to $900 for their TANF allowance. A single person household can expect an average of up to $300. -These allowance benefits would be separate from any additional welfare benefits received such as child care, medical or utility assistance. Then the site says this (and remember this one is a GOVERNMENT site) -Even as you look at these welfare amounts, it is not surprising that the current allowance benefits seldom if ever make ends meet for the recipient. (I call bullshit on this) The institutionalized program was set up to be an offset measure for those in need, not a complete replacement of income and benefits. (this is how it is SUPPOSED to be) The downside to this is that as the economy continues to take a nosedive, so does the available means for those living with minimal income. (because our government is incompetent) A family of 4 cannot live on $900 a month. (true but a family of 4 is NOT living on 900 dollars a month as stated above. The get 900/month in spending money, 500/month in food stamps, and this doesn't include other programs such as WIC of which is not even mentioned in this their summary, and welfare benefits such as assisted child care, free health care, utility expenses, and other things not mentioned such as housing assistance, free breakfast/lunch for kids at school, etc.) Additionally, criminal activities meant to defraud the SRS program greatly limit the available funds for those who truly need and make the regulations stricter, in some cases too strict, eliminating the benefits for those who truly need it. (so they admit that there are a SIGNIFICANT number of people abusing the system). Take these figures and I will post sources at the end of this post. For a family of 4 900 dollars in spending money 500 dollars in food stamps 102 for free school food 130.5 43.50/person, only moms/children are used in figures for how much they get free medical insurance 200(I used my cost where I worked as a baseline) this is 1832 average/month and STILL does not include if they live in low income housing/have housing assistance, utility assistance, receive unemployment checks, child care assistance etc. This figure could easily be well up into 2500-3000 no tax deducted free money to not work. That is crap. That is not just getting by. It shouldn't get more from assistance to NOT work than you would if you got a job. http://www.fns.usda.gov/pd/25wifyavgfd$.htm http://www.cobbk12.org/centraloffice/foodservices/mealPrices.htm http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pss/tables/table_15.asp |
| my name is ryker | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 6 2014, 04:31 PM Post #66 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Raise the minimum wage and give unions more to power to bargain for better contracts and improved pay packages. |
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| ryker | Mar 6 2014, 04:43 PM Post #67 |
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General
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raising the minimum wage does nothing but give people making more than minimum wage a decrease in relative pay. Giving unions more power only increases labor costs. The best way as incog and I have both said is to bring manufacturing jobs back from 3rd world countries. You do this by making it so expensive to sell foreign made goods through taxation at customs that it is actually cheaper to pay a higher wage here than pay shipping and tax cost to manufacture it out of country and ship here. Don't give me that BS about 3rd world countries needing jobs too. They are forced into legal slavery. The ammount they pay them is worse (even accounting for cost of living) than minimum wage here. They cant make a living on what those jobs give them there. Most of their help comes from non 3rd world countries anyway and not the jobs there. So wouldn't it make sense to bring the jobs back here, strengthen the economy again, so we can help 3rd world countries more being better of financially? |
| my name is ryker | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 6 2014, 04:53 PM Post #68 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Protectionist tarrifs had disastrous consequences for global trade following the Great Depression, and were introduced by many countries precisely in order to protect their manufacturing industries. Besides, your solution still leads to increased labour costs, but this time at the expense of foreign trade relations. How are you going to export your manufactured goods? Who'd be willing to pay for something made in America that could be bought more cheaply from Indonesia? |
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| Ichigo1uk | Mar 6 2014, 06:01 PM Post #69 |
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Huh?
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Yer but mma just killed 75 probes and 2 Nexus's with just nuke harass. Wasn't even any big fights so far. |
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| ryker | Mar 6 2014, 07:44 PM Post #70 |
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General
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Ultra, this is as you would put it being an ass and selfish but America is still, at the moment, the biggest consumer of manufactured goods. We do MUCH more importing than exporting and most of what we import already has US manufactures producing the same thing only higher quality and a higher price tag to go with it. Those businesses would flourish and grow. Their higher quality product was more expensive so therefore less bought. Their higher quality product would then become cheaper than the lower quality product imported from another country and business would boom. More money would be pumped back into corporations that keep business in house. This would almost certainly result in increased manufacturing need, therefore more space. This would give more work to contract builders to build onto and add facilities. Once built, more workers would be needed to work in those buildings. Higher paid employees would result in a middle class so much more stable compared to now that it would be no comparison. Also coincidentally, less low income houses would be seen as it would no longer be financially beneficial to not work. You would make more to work than to stay at home and do nothing. This would lower the amount going out to government assistance. More people would have more money to spend on the goods produced in America and the money would circulate within. To counter your argument though you could then tax only those companies that use cheap labor. You can import without a tax as long as the manufacturing site you export from follow (at a minimum) equivalent OSHA and minimum wage rules as the country you are exporting to. That would make it more expensive to ship jobs to third world countries just to ship them back without a penalty (tax) that would be more extensive than if you just followed the rules. Quality of ALL product would more than likely increase as people who are happier with their jobs do better work (proven fact). Some companies would feel the price to move operations back to America were worth it, others would not. Some jobs would be brought back to America, some new jobs would be introduced in America (as more companies start operations in America/never send out) and the quality of work in third world countries would increase. Not because we forced some country to abide by our rules but just a company that manufactures within that country. The country itself could do what it wanted. This would be the more “humane and world helping” way for ALL developed worlds (Not just America), to go. There are already examples of the above reference. Inject-able drugs for instance. Regulatory agencies such as the EMA, FDA, TGA, Health Canada, Japan Government, etc etc etc continually audit drug manufacturing facilities to ensure they are operating within country guidelines for consumer safety as opposed to financial reasons/worker safety. That method would not cause any sour feelings in another governments mouth as they aren't telling them how to regulate the products in their country. They are only regulating products exported to the host country. This is why pharmaceuticals is one of the FEW manufacturing industries that has been MOSTLY unaffected by low labor cost in third world countries. With lower labor cost, typically comes lower quality, which is NOT OK in Pharma. It is actually cheaper to produce in non third world countries where quality is higher and therefore less throwing away of expensive stuff. There are two viable options that the government(s) of America or the world refuse to look at. One would be EXTREMELY beneficial to America and expeditedley drive America to once again be the richest country in the world in the fast lane with no speed limit to the final destination but unfortunately completely screw over third world countries. The other would strengthen the American economy as well as other developed countries also. It would also help the poverty class of the third world countries by giving them more pay (instead of slave wages) better working conditions, as well as a stronger economy without taking over their government by force or forcing our system onto them by force. The problem is that NONE of this will EVER happen. This is because too many government officials are greedy. They are paid under the table by corporations to push things beneficial to them. Not sure how it is in other countries, but in America, Congress is the only entity that is allowed to trade stocks through insider secrets. Not even wall street is allowed to do insider trading and many have been fined millions of dollars for it and arrested/served prison time for it. But it is OK for our government officials to do it? How is that not a recipe for disaster that encourages them to be legally corrupt? Edited by ryker, Mar 6 2014, 07:51 PM.
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| my name is ryker | |
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| gs | Mar 6 2014, 11:24 PM Post #71 |
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Slow down
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nice which tourny is that no spoilers |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 7 2014, 04:38 AM Post #72 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Which is one of the serious weaknesses in your economy at the moment. If you relocate factories to the United States they'll need raw materials, most of which will have to be imported from abroad. The foreign currency for these imports ought to be balanced by exports, or else you risk increasing the already huge trade deficit. There are other issues as well. Relocation isn't necessarily going to result in profitable manufacturing. Most likely, at least in the short-term, it's going to result in a bunch of shaky, inefficient industries desperately propped up by excessive government subsidies, competing globally against transnational companies benefiting from all the perks that come with being transnational. I honestly can't imagine your tax ideas doing anything other than restricting trade and driving up inflation. |
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| Jam | Mar 7 2014, 03:30 PM Post #73 |
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Fruit Based Jam
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They can get the raw materials from Canada which will be good for us. |
| Long live Carolus | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 7 2014, 03:42 PM Post #74 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Possibly, although many things would have to come from somewhere else. |
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| ryker | Mar 7 2014, 07:07 PM Post #75 |
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General
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did you not read the second part? Only tax if certain codes aren't met. Fair minimum wage, OSHA regulation, etc. As I said, a form of this is already being done in the pharma world in regards to regulation/quality. This alone is one of the main reasons most pharma operations haven't been outsourced to 3rd world countries. The money they gain doesn't make it worth throwing the stuff away because the quality/compliance wasn't good rough.... no reason it can't be done with all industries. |
| my name is ryker | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 8 2014, 05:23 AM Post #76 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Yes, and pharmaceuticals in the US are just SO affordable right now. Once again I don't see how forcibly increasing the costs of production won't lead to inflation. |
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| Jam | Mar 8 2014, 05:44 AM Post #77 |
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Fruit Based Jam
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That has more to do with the extreme difficulty of developing a new drug that has low toxicity and is better than a placebo and proving such to the FDA than it has to do with the location of the labour. Drugs are expensive because you're paying for all the failed attempts and decade long approval process. |
| Long live Carolus | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 8 2014, 06:43 AM Post #78 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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True, but that doesn't explain why drugs in the USA are exceptionally expensive in relation to their price in other developed countries. |
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| Adams | Mar 8 2014, 11:31 PM Post #79 |
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The Real
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Lay off the weed bro... |
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| gs | Mar 9 2014, 12:22 AM Post #80 |
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Slow down
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why? i don't even see a single reason to |
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| Adams | Mar 9 2014, 01:00 AM Post #81 |
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The Real
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I smoked for a the first time a month or so back. Such a great feeling. Can't believe I've been without it for so long. |
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| Jam | Mar 9 2014, 01:40 AM Post #82 |
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Fruit Based Jam
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First comes pot, next comes meth, then comes coma, then comes death. |
| Long live Carolus | |
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| Adams | Mar 9 2014, 04:52 PM Post #83 |
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The Real
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I tried meth before pot. |
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| gs | Mar 9 2014, 06:58 PM Post #84 |
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Slow down
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those are some pretty huge steps |
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| Incog | Mar 9 2014, 08:04 PM Post #85 |
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CHEERIO!
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only half of it ryhmes though |
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Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great. | |
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| Incog | Mar 9 2014, 08:04 PM Post #86 |
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CHEERIO!
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maybe it's because death and poetry don't god damn mix |
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Black tulip Tribute to the the greatest of the great. | |
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| Adams | Mar 9 2014, 09:54 PM Post #87 |
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The Real
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQBVneC30o |
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| Jam | Mar 9 2014, 09:55 PM Post #88 |
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Fruit Based Jam
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I'd rather do meth than rhyme about death. Oops, how careless of me.
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| Long live Carolus | |
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| The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom | Mar 10 2014, 11:14 AM Post #89 |
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:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
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Let's start a meth business. Jam knows chemistry, right? |
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| Jam | Mar 10 2014, 06:53 PM Post #90 |
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Fruit Based Jam
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Ryker can get us access to equipment and materials, and you can handle the economics. |
| Long live Carolus | |
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