Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9
yrope; erections
Topic Started: Apr 30 2014, 06:39 AM (3,457 Views)
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom
Member Avatar
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
just send your kids to an expensive private school in Massachusetts.
Edited by The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom, Aug 11 2014, 03:20 PM.
Jam
 
It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

they aren't?
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
gs
Aug 11 2014, 01:49 PM
yeah it's totally understandable for you to want to preserve their innocence (good luck with that). we were joking for the record..

btw, how are you approaching the whole "teaching them logical/analytical thinking" since the schools in the US are clearly not big on that
I don’t think I am going to have to worry about my son being logical/analytical. He is very much like me that he wants a reason “why” for everything. If he doesn’t understand something, he wants answers. He understands that everything is a certain way because of a reason. He hasn’t said the whole, “Because god made it that way” reason yet, although I see it coming as his grandma (both my side and my wife’s side) use that reason…. A lot. My wife and I have discussed how I will handle this situation. I will most likely just not respond. Eventually the kids will ask me about my faith, at which point they should be old enough for me to explain that I don’t believe that god exists. I have agreed that I will not try to convince them to not be Christian, which I agree with. I want them to be non-Christian, but I want them to come to that conclusion on their own reasoning. If they choose to be Christian, I will love them no less than if they follow my way of thinking.
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
Incog
Aug 12 2014, 05:47 PM
they aren't?
No they aren’t. With math, for example, they teach what is called common core. Some teachers are against it and some are for it. Many advocates for it say that the curriculum says both are taught but common core is another method. This is not the case. Per state and national assessments, they are required to use the common core method. I understand the concept behind common core but don’t think people should be required to learn this way. It is a very abstract way of looking it. For some it would work but for others it wouldn’t. do some research on it and you will see what I mean. Look at several articles and not just the pro ones. There are good arguments against it as well. The fact is that students are doing worse on test than they used to. When they started it and actually allowed them to practice both methods, test scores went up. This was because students used what made sense to them. Since they have all but eradicated the old way of teaching math test scores have dropped below the original scores. The abstract way of thinking works for only a small percentage of people and leaving the majority that understood the old way out of luck.
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

Trying to teach math abstractly is what France does and you get huge discrepancies between those that are good at math and those who aren't.
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
Their logic behind pushing it is just retarded. They think that since the scores went up when they taught both that it was the new math method that was increasing scores. What it really did was give those that didn't understand the traditional way of thinking of it a chance to understand it. That means more kids could get math in their own way, of which I am all for. What I am against is that they thought it was ONLY because of common core that math was scores went up so they took the old curriculum completely out. This screwed all the logical thinkers and process driven thinkers. Math scores have since plummeted. They keep saying it is a learning curb we just have to get over. Its bullshit.
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
looking at math abstractly is the only way to look at math. you can't say "for some it works for others it doesn't", that just means "some people are good at math and others aren't". teaching math by repeating the same thing 1000 times then asking that exact thing on the test is no good at all, sure it might get your students a passing grade but will they ever in real life be in a situation where they will use this technique? no, beause they don't understand why they learned it, they just learned it. it's useless and a huge waste of time for the teacher to teach math that way, better would be to give students the choice of taking math or at the very least (imo the best option) have different levels of it like we do here.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
Teaching students that 10-8=2 is the old way (the way I learned it and I can explain math just fine).

Teaching students that to figure out 10-8 you have to say 8+2=10 so 10-8=2. This method only works once you learn addition the same way they don't want you to learn subtraction.
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/373840/ten-dumbest-common-core-problems-alec-torres
above are questions FROM THE COMMON CORE STANDARDIZED ASSESSMENT
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
here is how common core requires you to answer 32-12... and mind you if you do it the old way, you get it wrong...
http://www.tpnn.com/2014/05/13/the-insanity-of-common-core-math-revealed-in-under-two-minutes/
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

gs
Aug 14 2014, 09:51 AM
looking at math abstractly is the only way to look at math. you can't say "for some it works for others it doesn't", that just means "some people are good at math and others aren't". teaching math by repeating the same thing 1000 times then asking that exact thing on the test is no good at all, sure it might get your students a passing grade but will they ever in real life be in a situation where they will use this technique? no, beause they don't understand why they learned it, they just learned it. it's useless and a huge waste of time for the teacher to teach math that way, better would be to give students the choice of taking math or at the very least (imo the best option) have different levels of it like we do here.
Math will an irl context is much easier to understand. You can count apples and you can understand what subtraction is when you eat the apple. It's easier to understand to understand functions ( y = a*x + a - b ) if you're looking at revenue or something.
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ryker
Member Avatar
General
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxJ4nbqx8CY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZEGijN_8R0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Ubjg_o8vg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x2ZyXWHeMw
my name is ryker
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
Incog
Aug 14 2014, 10:25 AM
gs
Aug 14 2014, 09:51 AM
looking at math abstractly is the only way to look at math. you can't say "for some it works for others it doesn't", that just means "some people are good at math and others aren't". teaching math by repeating the same thing 1000 times then asking that exact thing on the test is no good at all, sure it might get your students a passing grade but will they ever in real life be in a situation where they will use this technique? no, beause they don't understand why they learned it, they just learned it. it's useless and a huge waste of time for the teacher to teach math that way, better would be to give students the choice of taking math or at the very least (imo the best option) have different levels of it like we do here.
Math will an irl context is much easier to understand. You can count apples and you can understand what subtraction is when you eat the apple. It's easier to understand to understand functions ( y = a*x + a - b ) if you're looking at revenue or something.
yes, that's how math should be taught. real life examples to teach you why you're using a certain formula or why you're adding this number to that instead of just teaching how to and repeating that a million times, which seems to be the current strategy of choice.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom
Member Avatar
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
Quote:
 
teaching math by repeating the same thing 1000 times then asking that exact thing on the test is no good at all, sure it might get your students a passing grade but will they ever in real life be in a situation where they will use this technique?


That's kinda the problem; so long as tests remain the primary method of assessment, and both students and schools are ranked according to test performance, there will always be a strong incentive to drill students in the same techniques repetitively until they score we'll in the exam.

Maths drills aren't all that bad. I find it hard to remember Maths concepts unless I practice using them many times, so it's a useful way to help students remember the things they learn. I also found that I understood things better after going over them repeatedly as we'll.
Jam
 
It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
there's nothing wrong with repetition when learning but it is wrong when that's the only thing you're doing

and it depends on the test, you can design it so that it inspires students to think creatively about how to use math to solve a certain problem instead of presenting a problem that can be solved by a simple algorithm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom
Member Avatar
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
gs
Aug 14 2014, 05:32 PM
there's nothing wrong with repetition when learning but it is wrong when that's the only thing you're doing

and it depends on the test, you can design it so that it inspires students to think creatively about how to use math to solve a certain problem instead of presenting a problem that can be solved by a simple algorithm.
In the UK The types of question that appear in the Maths exams are very predictable; exam boards use this as a technique to attract customers, since as usual the focus is on making things as straightforward and accessible for students as possible, in an effort to boost exam performance and hence give the impression that progress is being made in education.
Jam
 
It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
yes, that's the problem. trying their absolute hardest to teach children is sadly not the best way for schools to look good

example of a good test question (although not high school level) http://s15.zetaboards.com/A414A_clan/topic/479327/1/?x=0#post70496
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom
Member Avatar
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
Not sure what equation I would have to use for that.
Jam
 
It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
solution (with walking speed 6 instead of 5)
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

The problem with using such problems in education is that it requires critical thinking to solve. If you aren't good at critical thinking, or if your education didn't develop that, getting such a problem in a math test will torpedo you. It's unfortunate.

Critical thinking should be taught in education, for sure. however, it's not something easy to teach.
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
yeah you should scale the level of abstractness with how good the student is at it
Quote:
 
better would be to give students the choice of taking math or at the very least (imo the best option) have different levels of it like we do here.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jam
Member Avatar
Fruit Based Jam
ryker
Aug 14 2014, 10:11 AM
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/373840/ten-dumbest-common-core-problems-alec-torres
above are questions FROM THE COMMON CORE STANDARDIZED ASSESSMENT
Number 1 is part of how I do mental math. I wasn't taught to do it that way though, it's just intuitive. Kids need to memorize single digit additions and times tables though, because it makes math much easier. We have a similar thing in some parts of Canada, but it's being reversed now because it's not working. Lots of kids going to university have to take remedial math courses because they can't do basic math.

I'm not exposed to the American education system, but here is my take on it. The problem isn't that what being taught is wrong, it's how these concepts are being taught. Instead of these concepts being logical tools that can be used to solve the problem, they are taught like arbitrary equations. Math is intuitive (within reason), and kids are going to solve problems using the bits of logic that they understand in a way that makes sense to them. With common core, if the kid answers a question in a perfectly correct and simple way, it is wrong because they didn't follow the prescribed, convoluted method that they may not understand. The poor kid is left confused as to why the method that makes sense to them is wrong and the method they don't understand is right. Kids that do understand it are bored and frustrated because they have to do excess steps and draw unnecessary diagrams to solve simple problems.
Long live Carolus
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
i missed those links

that test is all over the place. holy crap
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The_Fry_Cook_of_Doom
Member Avatar
:OOOOOOOOOOOOMAAANN
Incog
Aug 14 2014, 07:58 PM
The problem with using such problems in education is that it requires critical thinking to solve. If you aren't good at critical thinking, or if your education didn't develop that, getting such a problem in a math test will torpedo you. It's unfortunate.

Critical thinking should be taught in education, for sure. however, it's not something easy to teach.
Critical Thinking is considered a trash subject if you take it at A Level. I think people expect critical thinking skills to be developed through studying your core subjects, so there's no need to have a separate subject for critical thinking alone.
Jam
 
It's okay to be mad at your fiends sometimes
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/2f2gjx/why_does_calculus_matter/

first comment thread explains nicely what the problem with math education is
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

what is calculus ? and algebra?

sorry, my math vocabulary is all french
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gs
Member Avatar
Slow down
google

unrelated:
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20143008-26095.html
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Incog
Member Avatar
CHEERIO!

I don't care enough to google that.

oh well
Black tulip

Tribute to the the greatest of the great.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jack the IV
Member Avatar
The Gent's Club
Algebra is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to maths. With calculus you can do just about anything. My brain damn near exploded taking calculus 2 and I chose to no longer pursue physics after that.
In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains,
On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows,
In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame,
The good deeds a man has done before defend him.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ichigo1uk
Member Avatar
Huh?
I could do physics, but math just didn't mesh.
Incog
Jan 19 2012, 05:34 PM
I think unicorns have a higher chance of existing than gods do. I mean, if a mare fell into the ocean and a narwhal raped it, then the mare might just give birth to a unicorn.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General chat · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 9

Skinning by GS, Logo and bottom by Incog.