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Trumpets; what's it like?
Topic Started: Jan 30 2008, 09:12 AM (901 Views)
Shawn
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// トレノ君 //

Do runnin horns make a hardcore noise difference? just wondering....any one runnin horns now?
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

Check out the videos on YouTube dude, they sound epic! B)
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Peter
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Stage 6
horns?? trumpets?? stacks?? etc??
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AceSniper
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Global Moderator

run them open and you just lose power unless there real long... all sound no go :/
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Shawn
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// トレノ君 //

only Red and Gold Star guys on this post for some reason :lol:
i heard about the power loss!! ill dig more for info.
thanks

sounds insane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3HblUpQtWk
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AceSniper
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Global Moderator

Iv run mine open for awhile on a stock engine, didnt help performance at all, if there longish and get heaps of cold air it maybe another story, but the plenum seams to help with torque alot, just like adding a ARC box does
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

AceSniper
Jan 31 2008, 06:38 AM
just like adding a ARC box does

That's the route I'm going to be taking. :)
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zerofighter
Stage 1
Didnt want to start a new thread and trying to learn as much about this as possible. Getting the trumpets and fitting them without the plenum will cost you power unless long...and getting slightly longer than stock ones and keeping the plenum helps that problem.

The question i have is in relation to Blacktop 20V. I know its MAP based but i want to keep the plenum as i live in the Caribbean and it gets quite hot and dont want to hinder performance badly. So i was wondering whats the largest or rather longest trumpets recommended to stay within the stock plenum. Going with TODA trumpets with the 50mm inside but which trumpet can i actually use within the plenum as there are 3 options; 33mm, 63mm & 88mm. Assistance please guys and will upgrading to any within the plenum help me see gains? even the bare minimum?
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Ae111blast
Stage 5
You will want the small ones in the original box as the tall ones will be too close to the plenium wall.
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zerofighter
Stage 1
So the 33mm would be good basically...what about the 63mm?
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

Whats been done to the engine? Have you changed cams / programable ecu etc?
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Levin BZR
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Go for 33mm inside the plenum with a CAI filter mate. This is what I have on my car, and what most member are using.

By the way, I have a set of Imec trumpets (33mm) made in Japan if you want them. Pm me if interested.
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viper33
Stage 4
I know this topic has been discussed a lot, but im wondering what the best size for trumpets would be if your planning on running them open/with an ITG filter or similar.

I've got a piggyback so i can change a/f ratio + timing, ive got access to a dyno so im not gonna be tuning according to a bum dyno.
And if i feel that the trumpets aren't getting enough cold air, i have no problems getting a scoop fitted by cutting a hole in the bonnet.

So all im really after is if anyone has any idea as to what trumpets i should try to get max power out of without sacrifising torque significantly.
I know its a buy and try thing but id like to avoid buying 10 different sizes if i can, dont have that kind of money.
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GNeve
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The flying Dutchman
dont run them open. Toyota didnt put the airbox on the engine if it wouldny help the performance ;-)
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Ae111blast
Stage 5
I had the small 30mm imec ones open on mine with an itg filter and they sound awesome! wouldnt say i lost power either, according to the dyno i gained more, heat is definatley a problem though. Im not sure how good a scoop would be as i have been told that the itb's dont really like air rammed at them, apparently its better to fit a reverse scoop and suck the hot air out but dunno really.
If i had a dyno and could adjust a/f i would definatley look at opening them up again :-)
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Luke111
Stage 4
50mm diameter x 70-80mm long with rolled bell shaped lip should be about right. im running 50mm di x 100mm long. and in my opinion they are too long and only improve on very high rpms.

Heat is a huge factor tho and I am looking at going back to running a plenum again.
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Levin BZR
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Luke111
Jul 23 2012, 02:02 AM
50mm diameter x 70-80mm long with rolled bell shaped lip should be about right. im running 50mm di x 100mm long. and in my opinion they are too long and only improve on very high rpms.

Heat is a huge factor tho and I am looking at going back to running a plenum again.
Something is wrong here..

Longer trumpets will improve low rpms.

Shorter trumpets will improve high rpms.
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viper33
Stage 4
Levin BZR
Jul 23 2012, 09:08 AM
Luke111
Jul 23 2012, 02:02 AM
50mm diameter x 70-80mm long with rolled bell shaped lip should be about right. im running 50mm di x 100mm long. and in my opinion they are too long and only improve on very high rpms.

Heat is a huge factor tho and I am looking at going back to running a plenum again.
Something is wrong here..

Longer trumpets will improve low rpms.

Shorter trumpets will improve high rpms.
Lol theres a guy at my work who swears that 110mm trumpets are best for power
Theres also a guy who makes trumpets down here who recommended 110 mm for power
And then theres people who say long trumpets for torque/low rpm and short trumepts for power/high rpm

But yeah a bonnet scoop is just an idea, havent looked into it but might consider a vented bonnet too

I do have access to a dyno and I do think that the biggest gains to be had are from running them open
Toyota did a lot of things to this car, doesn't mean that they are all right and can't be improved on
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Luke111
Stage 4
Levin BZR
Jul 23 2012, 09:08 AM
Luke111
Jul 23 2012, 02:02 AM
50mm diameter x 70-80mm long with rolled bell shaped lip should be about right. im running 50mm di x 100mm long. and in my opinion they are too long and only improve on very high rpms.

Heat is a huge factor tho and I am looking at going back to running a plenum again.
Something is wrong here..

Longer trumpets will improve low rpms.

Shorter trumpets will improve high rpms.
long is best for power and torque work at a higher rpm and sacrifice bottom end torque
short is for better throttle response

I've run both 50mm long and 100mm
and with the 100mm I can barely move until i hit 3500-4000 rpm.

It takes far too long to pull the air in at lower rpms and as a result its gutless.
With 50mm trumpets throttle response was much better and much more streetable. (unfortunately I was only borrowing the 50mm or I would have kept them on)

I believe if you go somewhere in the middle you should achieve a more rounded setup.

As I've said I'm currently running 100mm and I'm going back to running the stock rubber stacks inside the plenum. Its just too hard to drive as a daily when you have to pile on about 3000 rpm to take off from traffic lights...
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viper33
Stage 4
^ Thats the sort of the replies i was looking for, people speaking from their own experience
Thanks a lot for that

Did you by any chance happen to dyno the car with either the 50mm trumpets or the 100mm?
Also were they both tested with a stock ecu or aftermarket and also did you get a tune done to suit?

Thanks
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Levin BZR
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My 30mm Imec trumpets increase response after 4500rpm till the limiter.
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Luke111
Stage 4
Didn't compare on the dyno unfortunately.
Both were while I was running an adaptronic standalone ecu.

My tuner just lent me the 50mm for a day to compare the difference when driving, and yes it was tuned to suit.

Levin BZR are you running imec trumpets open? or within the plenum?
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Levin BZR
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Luke111
Jul 24 2012, 10:14 PM
Didn't compare on the dyno unfortunately.
Both were while I was running an adaptronic standalone ecu.

My tuner just lent me the 50mm for a day to compare the difference when driving, and yes it was tuned to suit.

Levin BZR are you running imec trumpets open? or within the plenum?
Within the plenum. With open plenum, the car struggle to accelerate fast, and you notice a difference after 5500-6000 rpm!
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viper33
Stage 4
Luke111
Jul 24 2012, 10:14 PM
Didn't compare on the dyno unfortunately.
Both were while I was running an adaptronic standalone ecu.

My tuner just lent me the 50mm for a day to compare the difference when driving, and yes it was tuned to suit.

Levin BZR are you running imec trumpets open? or within the plenum?
Ah fair enough, thanks for the advice
But yeah im not considering 110mm anymore, theres a place in vic which makes trumpets for 4ags, they've got 50 and 70mm so im probably gonna decide between the 2

Leving bzr, i've heard good stuff about running imec trumpets in the plenum but im not planning on running with the plenum on and i think the imecs will be too short to run open
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Luke111
Stage 4
Yea 70mm would probably be a good option that's the length Yoey suggested to me. I just couldn't find any :)

Either way you go it will certainly sound awesome :D
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viper33
Stage 4
http://s-86.com/s-parts-velocitystacks.html
Thats the guy who makes them if you were still interested
Sweet, yeah yoey knows his stuff and i'll probably get them to start off with and see how i go
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Kaiser
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Stage 5
viper33
Jul 23 2012, 12:27 PM
I do have access to a dyno and I do think that the biggest gains to be had are from running them open
Toyota did a lot of things to this car, doesn't mean that they are all right and can't be improved on
I'd be interested in before and after dyno readings, especially torque curves. What you shouldn't be interested in people saying that trumpets definitely increase this or definitely increase that. Someone did a dyno with open trumpets already on this site and lost power.
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viper33
Stage 4
Yeah open trumpets without a tune and sucking in hot air will lose power

But if the right sized trumpets are used in a car with a proper tune and a bonnet scoop or vents to ensure that they're sucking in cold air should definitely be making more power, not too sure about torque
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Sam_Q
Sam_Q
Luke111
Jul 23 2012, 10:57 PM
long is best for power and torque work at a higher rpm and sacrifice bottom end torque
short is for better throttle response

I've run both 50mm long and 100mm
and with the 100mm I can barely move until i hit 3500-4000 rpm.

It takes far too long to pull the air in at lower rpms and as a result its gutless.
With 50mm trumpets throttle response was much better and much more streetable. (unfortunately I was only borrowing the 50mm or I would have kept them on)

I believe if you go somewhere in the middle you should achieve a more rounded setup.

As I've said I'm currently running 100mm and I'm going back to running the stock rubber stacks inside the plenum. Its just too hard to drive as a daily when you have to pile on about 3000 rpm to take off from traffic lights...
I disagree with you here. Longer stacks should not affect your bottom end pickup and if it is I question if your tune is being thrown out. Did you use a standard ECU? How much clearance to the firewall did you have?

I have had customers lose power no where going from 70mm to 110mm and instead they picked mid and top end.

As for anyone who says shorter is for top end well it's just wrong. In theory it's correct but on the dyno it's the oppersite for all 4AGE engines with stock cams and same for 3SGE BEAMS engines
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