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5spd to 6sd conversion
Topic Started: Jan 26 2009, 08:20 AM (476 Views)
runty89
Stage 2
iv gt a 16v 1.6 xz i think... 4AFE engine it been worked up a bit so keeps up with silver top 20v nd not bad against bzr but i want to put a bzr 6spd box in mine... how hard is it to do will it make mine go any faster with the gear ratios closer together? what else would i need to change to get it to bolt in? would my lsd bolt strate on or would i hav to get a bzr lsd to go on






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jetshin
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Stage 5
6speeds are weaker than 5speeds and also sell for a lot more. What have you done to your 4afe out of curiosity?
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
i really would like to know what he have done as well but speaking of that, here where i live they have a xz as well keeping up with some of the bzr's and all he did to it was dropped the exhaust and gave the engine a good training on the drag track ;), but yea the 6th speed is weaker dude, wanna exchange? ;)
Edited by Z33kdud3, Jan 26 2009, 10:55 AM.
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Levin BZR
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Z33kdud3
Jan 26 2009, 10:51 AM
i really would like to know what he have done as well but speaking of that, here where i live they have a xz as well keeping up with some of the bzr's and all he did to it was dropped the exhaust and gave the engine a good training on the drag track ;), but yea the 6th speed is weaker dude, wanna exchange? ;)
the 6 speed gearbox maybe is weaker than a 5 speed, but when my brother changed from 5 to 6 speed gearbox,his ae111 is a LOT quicker than before
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
Levin BZR
Jan 26 2009, 03:51 PM
Z33kdud3
Jan 26 2009, 10:51 AM
i really would like to know what he have done as well but speaking of that, here where i live they have a xz as well keeping up with some of the bzr's and all he did to it was dropped the exhaust and gave the engine a good training on the drag track ;), but yea the 6th speed is weaker dude, wanna exchange? ;)
the 6 speed gearbox maybe is weaker than a 5 speed, but when my brother changed from 5 to 6 speed gearbox,his ae111 is a LOT quicker than before
yea because of the gear ratios
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
I always thought 5 speeds were quicker in a straight line, no?
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
Wolftown
Jan 26 2009, 06:46 PM
I always thought 5 speeds were quicker in a straight line, no?
no the 6 speed ratio is shorter so the rpm goes up quicker, it's better for sprint or drag
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
question? does the bzg and the xz uses the same gearbox? and can a turbo starlet gearbox work on a blacktop?
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jetshin
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Stage 5
I think the BZG's and XZ/FZ have different ratios - where the hell is acesniper?
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Levin BZR
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jetshin
Jan 27 2009, 12:19 AM
I think the BZG's and XZ/FZ have different ratios - where the hell is acesniper?
Ace??? :P
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Crampy
Stage 2
Since when is a 6 speed Levin faster than a 5 speed one at the drag strip?
Stock for stock, the 5 speed wins.
It's been proven many times here in NZ.
Ace will be able to shed some light on the subject.
I think he's even going to use his normal C56 over his close ratio gearbox for dragging. (from what I remember anyway).
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Levin BZR
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Crampy
Jan 27 2009, 04:41 AM
Since when is a 6 speed Levin faster than a 5 speed one at the drag strip?
Stock for stock, the 5 speed wins.
It's been proven many times here in NZ.
Ace will be able to shed some light on the subject.
I think he's even going to use his normal C56 over his close ratio gearbox for dragging. (from what I remember anyway).
As you said, stock to stock buddy. It depends on your mods I think
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Wolftown
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Crampy
Jan 27 2009, 04:41 AM
Since when is a 6 speed Levin faster than a 5 speed one at the drag strip?
Stock for stock, the 5 speed wins.
It's been proven many times here in NZ.
Ace will be able to shed some light on the subject.
I think he's even going to use his normal C56 over his close ratio gearbox for dragging. (from what I remember anyway).
Good man, knew the 5 speed was quicker
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
my name is zeekdude and i don't aprove of this message ^o)
i still think the 6 speed is quicker, other than that where the hell is ace? lol and i thought that ace is not into drag????????
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Levin BZR
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Guys, my car has a six speed gearbox. My brother's ae111 has a 5 speed gearbox. We have the same mods (exactly) and my car WAS a lot quicker. Now,after he changed his gearbox,the cars ARE the same!!!
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
Levin BZR
Jan 27 2009, 05:10 PM
Guys, my car has a six speed gearbox. My brother's ae111 has a 5 speed gearbox. We have the same mods (exactly) and my car WAS a lot quicker. Now,after he changed his gearbox,the cars ARE the same!!!
that tells it all :D
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
Z33kdud3
Jan 27 2009, 01:58 PM
my name is zeekdude and i don't aprove of this message ^o)
i still think the 6 speed is quicker, other than that where the hell is ace? lol and i thought that ace is not into drag????????
'depends what your doing with your car... c56 will be quicker in drag racing... and hold upto the clutch drops better,
c160 will prolly be better on the track as you can keep in your powerband better on corners... an wont be put under the kinda stress that will brake it

on the street... depends what you like'

An old quote from the mighty Ace you've been dying to hear from. It appears he too feels the 5 speed is quicker for drag racing ie a straight line.
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Levin BZR
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Crowbzr's car has also the six speed gearbox with a 210 wheels horse power!! And the car is just PERFECT
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AceSniper
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jetshin
Jan 27 2009, 12:19 AM
I think the BZG's and XZ/FZ have different ratios - where the hell is acesniper?
*honk honk*

:)
the Fe series engines run same ratios but a taller diff so things are a bit slower you may save fuel? :P

A starlet gearbox also uses the "fe" final drive.
Starlet gearbox with a factory LSD has a different diff housing so 4age bell housing probably wouldn't bolt on. would if it was not LSD but... you will just end up with a 4afe box.

5speed do seam quicker on the drag strip since they can avoid a extra gear change.

its the crown and pinion (final drive) that lets go on the 6speed, they are made thinner to so everything can fit in, making the teeth a bit to weaker and can strip/let go
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AceSniper
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don't want to be a bad sport or anything but I still question Crowbzr power due to the cam size and work been carried out... but could have a little dragon inside that engine of his who knows.

As said above I have a aftermarket gear kited 5speed and Its nice on corners always keeping in the power, but on the drag strip it means shifting into 4th gear (4in tops at 180 in this box)

While a c56 Its possible for me to hit 180km's in 3rd gear and my wide power band has no problem pulling in each gear, where having this box on some tight bends would suck since 2nd gear peeks 140km? and anything below 100km is out of power.
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
210hp @ the wheels with those cams and mods I really don't think its possible unless the dyno was overly happy OR the dyno tuner played around and made sure it read good.

Its already proven you pretty much need close to 300deg camshafts with some lift to get past 200hp @ the flywheel.

Need to know exactly what mods and parts he's got otherwise...
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Crampy
Stage 2
And there he is. Cheers for coming on board Ace.

Two cars or exactly the same mods, yet you still think the one that needs to change one more gear will win??? The powerband of a Blacktop is not that small that you need the extra cog. Maybe the mods you have done are making the motor even more peaky than it is to start with, who knows. Also, it comes down to the driver and not just the car.

I'm putting in my C56 and won't be looking back. There is no reason for me to want or need a 6 speed in my car.

Each to their own though, the 6 speed might suit some people, but not me.
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
If the driver is a good, he can get the most out of the 6 speed... They're close ratio for a reason.

Basically for the 6 speeder, what it has to offset is the less shifts required and the longer ratio'd 5 speed. While the 5 speed would be holding onto say close to the top of 2nd, the 6 speed would be 3rd/4th somewhere lol...

To offset that means perfect shifts which rarely happens. In theory close but in reality you'll see the 5spd being easier to go faster with than the 6spd...
Edited by DreadAngel, Jan 28 2009, 10:24 AM.
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
Crampy
Jan 28 2009, 09:29 AM
And there he is. Cheers for coming on board Ace.

Two cars or exactly the same mods, yet you still think the one that needs to change one more gear will win??? The powerband of a Blacktop is not that small that you need the extra cog. Maybe the mods you have done are making the motor even more peaky than it is to start with, who knows. Also, it comes down to the driver and not just the car.

I'm putting in my C56 and won't be looking back. There is no reason for me to want or need a 6 speed in my car.

Each to their own though, the 6 speed might suit some people, but not me.
Thats it, its personal preference really.
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runty89
Stage 2
jetshin
Jan 26 2009, 08:46 AM
6speeds are weaker than 5speeds and also sell for a lot more. What have you done to your 4afe out of curiosity?
um full through 3" exhaust with big bore on end larger injectors and aftermarket headers. computer had a lil tickle up as well just to get a bit more out of it
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AceSniper
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what injectors? lol a tickle up of the ecu... sounds like ur tuning a Honda.
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
ummm ^o) ok i have the 6 speed box and i duno about you guys but my 4th gear actually calls like when am close to the end of the track like any other 5 speed box. why is that? i duno probably someone messed with my gear ratio but my gears are quite long i must say and to say my clutch is upgraded it would make the rpm go up quicker but i finish in 4th gear just like any other 5 speed box on the drag.
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runty89
Stage 2
AceSniper
Jan 29 2009, 12:32 AM
what injectors? lol a tickle up of the ecu... sounds like ur tuning a Honda.
ummmm not to sure id have to have a look at thm ae cost a grand tho and it goes way better now with thm. what about getting flywheel lightened??? it worth it or nt?
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AceSniper
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std flywheel is already 5.9kg.... to get 3-4kg best you go aftermarket unit.
what colour is the plastic tops of your injectors? and what were they meant to have done to the ecu?
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runty89
Stage 2
AceSniper
Jan 29 2009, 08:20 AM
std flywheel is already 5.9kg.... to get 3-4kg best you go aftermarket unit.
what colour is the plastic tops of your injectors? and what were they meant to have done to the ecu?
red man. ummmm just changed fuel programme and air intake. ohhh yea wt u rkn bowt wrapping exhaust? iv been told it stops heat from extractors heaps ae. still trying to get cold air to get strate to engine without getting to hot by the time it get there
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Levin BZR
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Guys, can someone with the 6 speed gearbox give me his km per gear? (3rd and 4tg gears)

Here's mine:
3rd --->145km/h
4th--->More than 180km/h (Let's say 185km/h)
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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
the 6spd box has extra gear to change therefore extra gear shift if you're on a drag strip or going for high speed... unless you have done something to the engine, the gears on the 6spd would mean you would have to up shift a gear on a 1/4 mile which means a bit of time delay... since nearing the end of the 1/4 mile you'll be hitting the limiter or bouncing on it to finish the end of the 400m...
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jetshin
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dnbeQLZYgM
if you watch this video the 0-100 time is pretty poor because he hits 3rd just before reaching 100km/h. Maybe he's a crap driver but I've gotten a second faster than that in my 5spd and that's using an RSM which reads actual speed (the speedometer on the dash is optimistic and reads 100km/h while the RSM reads ~96km/h
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
I got a 6.9 in my 5 speed on the RSM. Should be quicker now though because I have since put in a decat pipe, removed a/c pump, rad and piping, and completely stripped the rear. Should shave off 0.1...maybe more..
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Wolftown
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jetshin
Feb 6 2009, 05:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dnbeQLZYgM
if you watch this video the 0-100 time is pretty poor because he hits 3rd just before reaching 100km/h. Maybe he's a crap driver but I've gotten a second faster than that in my 5spd and that's using an RSM which reads actual speed (the speedometer on the dash is optimistic and reads 100km/h while the RSM reads ~96km/h
I also noticed the factory speedo is a little optimistic...it seems to get worse the higher up the clock you go..I think my RSM reads around ~168 when the clock shows 180. Nice to know your true speed all the same
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jetshin
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true. 6.9 is damn good for a 1.6l if you watch all those 0-100km vids.
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