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6 Speed gearbox Discussion
Topic Started: Apr 25 2009, 02:34 PM (1,502 Views)
Z33kdud3
Stage 6
ok guys we all know that the 6 speed gearbox is weak and it is not suitable for drag but my question is what can we change inside it to make it strong and can take abuse? i know it migt be costy but what exactly makes it weak? can something be rebuild with a stronger material?
the synchros are weak as well especilly 3rd so is there anything like upgraded synchros? les discuss lets rebuild a 6 speed box :wub:
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AceSniper
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you have no options with synchros sadly.

The "weak" part is the crown and pinion, The 2zzge 6speed is the same box but with a 2z housing... whats interesting is it runs a 3sge diff... so larger diff and larger axles.

6speed 2zz box has same rations (dont know if gears are the same or stronger) with a 3sge diff.. so I guess larger/stronger crown and pinion... if you could put your 4age bellhousing in place of the 2zz one you will have a stronger box but then you may have an issue as the diff bearings run inside the bell housing so may/maynot work maybe possible to swap the bearing runners over but then you would also have to run larger shafts.


Or if you find a aftermarket crown/pinion for the 6speed it could hold up better than the stock unit.
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frax
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Stage 6
if this thread continues i think we should sticky it. many bzg and bzr drivers will be interested in this.
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
AceSniper
Apr 25 2009, 11:11 PM
you have no options with synchros sadly.

The "weak" part is the crown and pinion, The 2zzge 6speed is the same box but with a 2z housing... whats interesting is it runs a 3sge diff... so larger diff and larger axles.

6speed 2zz box has same rations (dont know if gears are the same or stronger) with a 3sge diff.. so I guess larger/stronger crown and pinion... if you could put your 4age bellhousing in place of the 2zz one you will have a stronger box but then you may have an issue as the diff bearings run inside the bell housing so may/maynot work maybe possible to swap the bearing runners over but then you would also have to run larger shafts.


Or if you find a aftermarket crown/pinion for the 6speed it could hold up better than the stock unit.
do you have a picture of the crown and pinion? what material is it made from? and for the synchros i was told a time ago that you can use upgraded synchros in the 6 speed box does any one know about this?
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
and i also heard from a machenic a time ago that someone rebuild their ae111 6speed box so that the can drag race it and he said when he shift the gears you could stay from miles hearing the gears selecting because it was fully metal so you was hearing a noise like (click, click ,clang, clang) but i never got to ask him how he actually did it but i heard it was quite expensive.
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AceSniper
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you can get gears custom made thats big money

crown and pinion is the gear on the diff head and the gear on the end of the output shaft (its machined on so to replace all gears have to be pressed off)

Beefing up the crown and pinion may work, but the gears are also narrower than the c56 I dont know but you may then move onto stripping your gears.... so it gets more and more expensive...

Would be good to see the inside of a 2zz box with the gears side by side a blacktop one, also the 2zz bellhousing vs the 4age one
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
AceSniper
Apr 27 2009, 05:47 AM
you can get gears custom made thats big money

crown and pinion is the gear on the diff head and the gear on the end of the output shaft (its machined on so to replace all gears have to be pressed off)

Beefing up the crown and pinion may work, but the gears are also narrower than the c56 I dont know but you may then move onto stripping your gears.... so it gets more and more expensive...

Would be good to see the inside of a 2zz box with the gears side by side a blacktop one, also the 2zz bellhousing vs the 4age one
ok cool, wel understood, so tell me is there anyone that had ever tried this? how much money they spent? 1000euro? 1500? 2000? higher?
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mike ae111
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new ae111 coming soon
im ditching the 6speed box out of my bzg and replaceing it with a 5speed box with the 6speed diff i think this would be a cheaper and more reliable option
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
pwr hngry
Apr 30 2009, 12:56 PM
im ditching the 6speed box out of my bzg and replaceing it with a 5speed box with the 6speed diff i think this would be a cheaper and more reliable option
Will the diff from the 6 speed fit into the 5 speed box?
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mike ae111
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new ae111 coming soon
ive been told that it will as long as i use the crwown and pinion from the 6speed other wise the gearbox goes BOOM!!!!!
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AceSniper
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pwr hngry
Apr 30 2009, 06:11 PM
ive been told that it will as long as i use the crwown and pinion from the 6speed other wise the gearbox goes BOOM!!!!!
may want to edit ;)
you want to put the 5speed crown wheel off the 5speed open diff onto the 6speed diff (bolts on) then you have a lsd that fits right into your 5speed with no other work
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mike ae111
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new ae111 coming soon
that sounds easier alrite thanks ace :cheers:
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

A little off topic (but without starting a new thread..)

Anyone with a stock 6speed gear lever able to measure the "throw" - the distance between 1st gear and 2nd gear?

Hell, if someone with a shortshifered one could do the same??
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Levin BZR
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1i1
Jul 22 2009, 08:44 PM
A little off topic (but without starting a new thread..)

Anyone with a stock 6speed gear lever able to measure the "throw" - the distance between 1st gear and 2nd gear?

Hell, if someone with a shortshifered one could do the same??
I had a six speed gearbox. It died a month ago.. Crown and pinion gone. I bought a C56 gearbox, a 5 speed shifter and a C's quick shifter. I can say that it's ok.. The first to second gear is a little out of powerband, but with the help of my Mine's Ecu (revs 8500rpm) it feels ok..

@1i1 : With the short shifter the distance is a little shorter. Not too much though.. About 1cm-1.5cm
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
is there any turbocharge bz-r that still using the 6 speed gearbox healthy today?
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Levin BZR
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Z33kdud3
Jul 23 2009, 06:04 PM
is there any turbocharge bz-r that still using the 6 speed gearbox healthy today?
For a couple of months will be ok.. Then it will have the same problem..
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AceSniper
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Global Moderator

depends on driving style... could give way first drive
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
AceSniper
Jul 26 2009, 07:50 AM
depends on driving style... could give way first drive
ight cool i got another question, ive heard if you upgrade your clutch and pressure plate that sometimes it can put a strain on your gearbox is that true? let's say i was to purchase a ACT stage 3 metal clutch what would that do in terms of health?
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robcam
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96BZR

The gearbox being as it is. Putting a uprated clutch will put more stress on the gearbox.
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
robcam
Aug 7 2009, 11:49 AM
The gearbox being as it is. Putting a uprated clutch will put more stress on the gearbox.
damn i need a 5 speed :o
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
what kinda clutch you guys are using in your 6 speed?
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raymon_2
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Stage 1
I purchased a JDM Blacktop motor and 6spd for my AW11 and my question is.......How can I tell if my 6SPD is an LSD without openning it up? NOTE: the trans, is still on the bench.
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TRUENOSAM
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Stage 6
raymon_2
Aug 8 2009, 08:22 AM
I purchased a JDM Blacktop motor and 6spd for my AW11 and my question is.......How can I tell if my 6SPD is an LSD without openning it up? NOTE: the trans, is still on the bench.
All 6 speed had LSD i think. What is the transmission number?
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Levin BZR
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Z33kdud3
Aug 7 2009, 01:50 PM
what kinda clutch you guys are using in your 6 speed?
I used to have a TRD clutch disc and cover. In a year, my gearbox gone... :whistle:

Stay with your standard clutch buddy if you want your gearbox.. :@
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
Levin BZR
Aug 8 2009, 09:28 AM
Z33kdud3
Aug 7 2009, 01:50 PM
what kinda clutch you guys are using in your 6 speed?
I used to have a TRD clutch disc and cover. In a year, my gearbox gone... :whistle:

Stay with your standard clutch buddy if you want your gearbox.. :@
lol on really? ight cool
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AceSniper
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h/d cover and a std disc should last and hold abit more than stock.

Not all 6speed lsd... the corolla gt's and caribs dont always have them... look at the LSD pics pined in the gbox section
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

AceSniper
Aug 8 2009, 08:48 PM
h/d cover and a std disc should last and hold abit more than stock.

Not all 6speed lsd... the corolla gt's and caribs dont always have them... look at the LSD pics pined in the gbox section
Can confirm this, my Corolla has 6speed and no LSD :wall:
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jim20
Stage 2
I use an ACT heavy duty pressure plate with the round TRD upgrade organic clutch disc (not the 3 pointed metal one). The 6 speed box has a Cusco LSD and I use Redline MT-90 gear oil. Been racing with it over 3 years now with no gearbox issues whatsoever.
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thaik
Stage 3
Damn, is 6 Speed gear box that weak?
After reading all these post, I feel as if it will break the moment you start pushing a little bit. =O
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
^^^

Its more due to **** drivers lol

In all seriousness... Our C160 was always going to be weaker than the C56 5 Speed because the C160 uses the C56's casing... So the gears and associated parts are smaller/weaker...

In all honesty, the 6 Speed is fine if you know how to treat/drive it. If you expect it to be your average gearbox that you can thrash then go find a 5 speed.
Edited by DreadAngel, Sep 27 2009, 12:50 AM.
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AceSniper
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its hard to know if or when it will brake. but hard take offs and hooking traction hard(skids) can strip the c/p gear, there is nothing wrong with the gearset its all crown and pinion failure
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thaik
Stage 3
DreadAngel
Sep 27 2009, 12:47 AM
^^^

Its more due to **** drivers lol

In all seriousness... Our C160 was always going to be weaker than the C56 5 Speed because the C160 uses the C56's casing... So the gears and associated parts are smaller/weaker...

In all honesty, the 6 Speed is fine if you know how to treat/drive it. If you expect it to be your average gearbox that you can thrash then go find a 5 speed.
Sorry, I'm gonna go off topic for a little bit.. umm, is it possible or should I say.. Easy to change your 6 gear box to a 5 speed gear box?
Someone already told me that we gotta change the left mount and it'll fit
but I need to know if someone already did it.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/AE111_Forum/topic/6717880/1/#post8049052
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D3N0
Stage 1
Z33kdud3
Apr 25 2009, 02:34 PM
ok guys we all know that the 6 speed gearbox is weak and it is not suitable for drag but my question is what can we change inside it to make it strong and can take abuse? i know it migt be costy but what exactly makes it weak? can something be rebuild with a stronger material?
the synchros are weak as well especilly 3rd so is there anything like upgraded synchros? les discuss lets rebuild a 6 speed box :wub:
Its a shame you can't multi-quote on this forum, but anways back to the original topic at hand.

I do more reading and research than posting and have been looking into recently the 6 speed gearbox. This box is obviously favoured over the 5 speed due to the ratios and driveability, the only thing holding use back is that they are rather week.Although the machining process is the same also the material the same, it is only week due to having thinner gears than the 5 speed. So looking into upgrades for the 6 speed box, its noticable than the c160 box share the same ratios and gears as the c60 boxs, therefore interchangable.

The c60 box is featured in the celica, mr2 roadster, corrolla and similarities are also seen in the Lotus elise and exige. There are a few gearbox upgrades for the c60 from brands such as PPG, Kaaz, Jubu; this includes gearset replacements for much stronger ones (including helical gears). However for the guys like myself that want an uprated gearbox for turbo applications; a very good option would be MWR Dog Gear Kit. This kits replaces all transmission components including complete gears, final drive and aluminum billet selector folk. The gearbox will then be rated at 450bhp and 300ft/lb torque, though it has been used on a 2zz 650bhp drag car in the US.

I hope this helps abit.
Refer to www.monkeywrenchracing.com
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Deleted User
Deleted User

I've been looking at the Jubu kit, it replaces 3rd and 4th which are apparently the weak point of the gearbox. Is this true with our box?

How sure are you than those gearsets for a c60 will be the same in a c160

I reckon I could get something like the Jubu gears made up (I noticed their replacement gears are straight cut rather than helical)
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
D3N0
Jul 24 2010, 10:14 AM
Z33kdud3
Apr 25 2009, 02:34 PM
ok guys we all know that the 6 speed gearbox is weak and it is not suitable for drag but my question is what can we change inside it to make it strong and can take abuse? i know it migt be costy but what exactly makes it weak? can something be rebuild with a stronger material?
the synchros are weak as well especilly 3rd so is there anything like upgraded synchros? les discuss lets rebuild a 6 speed box :wub:
Its a shame you can't multi-quote on this forum, but anways back to the original topic at hand.

I do more reading and research than posting and have been looking into recently the 6 speed gearbox. This box is obviously favoured over the 5 speed due to the ratios and driveability, the only thing holding use back is that they are rather week.Although the machining process is the same also the material the same, it is only week due to having thinner gears than the 5 speed. So looking into upgrades for the 6 speed box, its noticable than the c160 box share the same ratios and gears as the c60 boxs, therefore interchangable.

The c60 box is featured in the celica, mr2 roadster, corrolla and similarities are also seen in the Lotus elise and exige. There are a few gearbox upgrades for the c60 from brands such as PPG, Kaaz, Jubu; this includes gearset replacements for much stronger ones (including helical gears). However for the guys like myself that want an uprated gearbox for turbo applications; a very good option would be MWR Dog Gear Kit. This kits replaces all transmission components including complete gears, final drive and aluminum billet selector folk. The gearbox will then be rated at 450bhp and 300ft/lb torque, though it has been used on a 2zz 650bhp drag car in the US.

I hope this helps abit.
Refer to www.monkeywrenchracing.com
so this really works? how expensive are we talking about?
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Deleted User
Deleted User

D3NO provided a link with gearsets...
http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php?cPath=25_181
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
Escy
Jul 26 2010, 04:27 PM
errrm ^o) , think am just gona stick with my weak c160. and if it damages to the near future i'll just look abut a c56 lol :whistle:
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Ikenty
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BZ Touring Carib
Z33kdud3 I agree with you on that. I already order C56 from Trinidad just incase something happen one of these days.
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