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5 speed to 6 speed evil
Topic Started: Apr 17 2010, 08:17 PM (1,002 Views)
The Parrot


ok why has noone posted a damn guide yet grrrrrrr.
the gearbox mounts are not easy to modify has anyone got any advice im obvioulsy modifying the 5 speed as you cant do the 6 speed as the mount is on the car rather than on the box why did toyo do this seriously why i am at a loss.

any advice.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Are you saying there is a difference on the shells between the 2 cars? If so, that seems strange.
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The Parrot


the gearbox brackets are wayyyy diffrent. basicly the bracket on the 6 is bolted to the frame were the 5 bracket is weld to the body instead of being bolted and the bushes is then bolted to the box if that makes any sense to you
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Levin BZR
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The Parrot
Apr 18 2010, 08:22 AM
the gearbox brackets are wayyyy diffrent. basicly the bracket on the 6 is bolted to the frame were the 5 bracket is weld to the body instead of being bolted and the bushes is then bolted to the box if that makes any sense to you
You are right. You have to buy a mount for a 6 speed gearbox
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The Parrot


the 6 speed bracket would be useless and i have one. the only way is to modify the 5 speed for my car. if i was going the other way round it would be a diffrent story
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The Parrot


how the hell!!!!!!!!!!! this is damn impossible
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TRUENOSAM
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Stage 6
It sounds like you will have to do some fabrication to the body to allow the new mount to fit. I cannot recall anybody converting to a 6 speed so you maybe wont get all the help you require with the task
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The Parrot


tell me about it i made the mount match up to the 6 speed box but oh hell dont the front engine mount just dont want to line up its pulling the engine about 5-10 mm to the right. this was ment to be a quick in out job ha. i love how people who havent done this just assume its an easy job to do. ill let you all know how it goes.
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Levin BZR
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A mechanic fit on my brother's trueno a 6 speed gearbox. (The car was 5 speed). My brother has the left gearbox mount of the 6 speed gearbox though. And yes, it is a straight fit. You make something wrong buddy
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The Parrot


i guess you have never looked under the hood buddy. a 6 speed engine m ount bolts to the chassie the 5 speed bolts to the box with a fixed point welded to the chassis. if you want to come over here and do it as a straight fit you more than welcome. save me the heart ache.
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Levin BZR
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How do you explain the fact that my brother's car had a six speed gearbox (c160) on his car, with no modifications, no welding etc? :P And because the 6 speed gearbox broke, he switched back to the 5 speed again.. The only thing change, was the left mount. Do you fix it to the correct place? Something wrong buddy. I'm sure 100% that my brother's car had a straight fit of the C160 gearbox..

Oh, btw my bro's car is an AE111 XZ, with a blacktop engine.. But I think the chassis of all AE111 is the same. The mechanic just remove the mount of the 5 speed and fit the six speed mount on..

Also, on my car, I had a six speed gearbox. When it broke, I switched to a 5 speed. For this conversion, I had to modified my passengers mount as I haven't got a 5 speed mount. But this is the opposite of what you want.. :thumbsup:

Edited by Levin BZR, Apr 19 2010, 12:36 PM.
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TRUENOSAM
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Stage 6
Come on Parrot, Levin BZR is only trying to help you. No need to be like that. Maybe you should have checked things like this before taking it apart :idk:
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Levin BZR
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TRUENOSAM
Apr 19 2010, 05:33 PM
Come on Parrot, Levin BZR is only trying to help you. No need to be like that. Maybe you should have checked things like this before taking it apart :idk:
+1.. That's why I replied to this threat buddy..

I will contact my mechanic tomorrow for this conversion and I will inform you for sure
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The Parrot


sorry about being a little sharpe just not a good weekend. i was just expecting it to be easier as no one had every mentioned any issue. its just a night mare right now. going to take wednesday off so i can finish it off.
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hogan1
Stage 4
i had to get the left sided gearbox mount welded on, the car is quite jumpy when changing gears so i want to fix this problem sometime in the future, let me know if you find a solution to it.
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The Parrot


im preety sure the worst case scerino will be getting an adaptor plate made so you can bolt the 5 speed engine mount to the 6 speed box. it looks like it requires lots of bolt holes being moved but ill let you all know when were done.
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The Parrot


im close to giving up i need my car on the road this is getting so frustrating
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robcam
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96BZR

just use the 5speed?
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nzbzg
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stick with the 5 spd man there stronger!
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The Parrot


i dont want to have swap them back ha
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The Parrot


ok hopefully getting an adaptor plate made up in the morning.
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The Parrot


ok another weekend without the car ha. joy of joys.
my guy did his best but just dosnt have the hours in the day.
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The Parrot


finally got it on.
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nismoe
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Levin-headed
how? do tell, and maybe a guide so no one has to go through what you obviously did :P <- Only messin with ya, sounds like you went through hell
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The Parrot


i really did. had to make am plate up. from scratch and i dont have a welder or a drill press with good bits. all in all it cost about 100 euro.
the plate one end is 110mm long with the bend. and 65mm for the other with the bolt hole.
and then a spacer for the main drilled hole.
ill get really pics in a few weeks once i inspect it again.
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The Parrot


we are on the road again and holy hell that is a qucik engine ha. and the 6 speeds is smooth.
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Do you prefer it?
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The Parrot


not sure yet. i think i do id prefer 2nd gear to be more like the 5 speed. a bit longer so your changing at 105km if you really want but apart from that seems good so far. maybe a little less throw
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ozzy
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The Parrot
Apr 29 2010, 09:15 PM
not sure yet. i think i do id prefer 2nd gear to be more like the 5 speed. a bit longer so your changing at 105km if you really want but apart from that seems good so far. maybe a little less throw
Got any pics of this? Im attempting a 6 speed swap in a week. Was it just the mount on the chassis leg you had to modify or did you have to modify the front and back one aswell?
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wsmracing
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very easy job! ill post a pic of my mount tomorrow.
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ozzy
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wsmracing
Feb 14 2011, 02:35 AM
very easy job! ill post a pic of my mount tomorrow.
Thaks very much i really appreciate it :cheers:
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wsmracing
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ozzy
Feb 14 2011, 02:53 AM
wsmracing
Feb 14 2011, 02:35 AM
very easy job! ill post a pic of my mount tomorrow.
Thaks very much i really appreciate it :cheers:
I didnt get down yet my car is in a mates garage getting the inside painted, but ill be going to mine in the morning and will take a pic.

I modified the left gearbox mount, to the 6 speed, but also got the selectors/cables, 6 speed shafts and clutch set, but you dont have to.

The clutch will fit and the slave cylinder will bolt back on fine.

Pic's up tomorrow night
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ozzy
Stage 4
I have everything sorted i just need to know the handiest way to sort out the problem with the mount. Thanks for getting the pics man looking forward to them
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wsmracing
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hey again here is mine its kinda crude but does the job fine. will be putting the engine in again weeks in a few weeks and will be taking a few pics then too but for now.....
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The Parrot


that is fairly crude lol/tual got a plate made up need to modify it a bit but . it bolts on to the 6 speed box then bolts up to the 5 speed engine mount very simalr to the original one just with extended maounting holes
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ozzy
Stage 4
The Parrot
Feb 23 2011, 09:38 PM
that is fairly crude lol/tual got a plate made up need to modify it a bit but . it bolts on to the 6 speed box then bolts up to the 5 speed engine mount very simalr to the original one just with extended maounting holes
Anychance of a picture of yours parrot? I need this box in the car for the trackday on monday
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The Parrot


ill try but i dont have much time right now.
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irietuning
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What I have realised in my time playing with ae111's is that the mounts are different for facelift/pre facelift. The mounts come apart and you can use the bits that you need from a corolla
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ozzy
Stage 4
I dont think im going to put the 6 speed i have in now. Ill leave the 5 speed in and do a few trackdays and hen im going to put a 190bhp vvtli celica engine and gearbox into her. The car handles very well but i had to work very hard to stick with integra type r's. B16 hondas were all passed with no problem though :-)
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Bryan BZ-R
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I not a fan of them celica engines there not that quick for what they claim :/
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ozzy
Stage 4
Bryan BZ-R
Mar 2 2011, 06:11 PM
I not a fan of them celica engines there not that quick for what they claim :/
There alot heavier than a levin. Should give me an extra 30bhp atleast. And one that nick in couture auto tuned made 197bhp with a set of cams and a powe fc. A b20 integra made the exact same power figure. There dyno reads pretty low so it would probably be up around 220bhp in westward. Id be more than happy with that much!
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Bryan BZ-R
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ozzy
Mar 2 2011, 06:44 PM
Bryan BZ-R
Mar 2 2011, 06:11 PM
I not a fan of them celica engines there not that quick for what they claim :/
There alot heavier than a levin. Should give me an extra 30bhp atleast. And one that nick in couture auto tuned made 197bhp with a set of cams and a powe fc. A b20 integra made the exact same power figure. There dyno reads pretty low so it would probably be up around 220bhp in westward. Id be more than happy with that much!
Not a bad result do you plan on doing time attack?
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ozzy
Stage 4
Bryan BZ-R
Mar 2 2011, 07:32 PM
ozzy
Mar 2 2011, 06:44 PM
Bryan BZ-R
Mar 2 2011, 06:11 PM
I not a fan of them celica engines there not that quick for what they claim :/
There alot heavier than a levin. Should give me an extra 30bhp atleast. And one that nick in couture auto tuned made 197bhp with a set of cams and a powe fc. A b20 integra made the exact same power figure. There dyno reads pretty low so it would probably be up around 220bhp in westward. Id be more than happy with that much!
Not a bad result do you plan on doing time attack?
I might do a round for the craic. Irish touring car championship is where i want to be really though
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Bryan BZ-R
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Ah yea then a conversion is a good idea
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supernova-dw


For the hassle of this conversion and the result I honestly wouldn't bother! The 6 speed is a fragile gearbox and imo genuinely not as good as the 5 speed. As for the Celica engine conversion then get a thread up, sounds very interesting!
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ozzy
Stage 4
6 speed box will be going into the car in the next 2 weeks as i sold my 5 speed lastnight!
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supernova-dw


Sorry mate but be prepared for problems! Correct me if I'm wrong in regards to the 6 speed in the AE111 but the usual reason why many many 6 speed gearboxes fail is because they use the same casing as a 5 speed variant and ram in another gear so everything is slightly miniaturised. I drove a 6 speed Levin and honestly found the 5 speed better too, the throw is pretty much the same imo but the ratios in the 5 speed are a nicer spread, I have a 5 speed with LSD and cannot fault it!
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TRUENOSAM
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supernova-dw
Apr 6 2011, 03:41 PM
Sorry mate but be prepared for problems! Correct me if I'm wrong in regards to the 6 speed in the AE111 but the usual reason why many many 6 speed gearboxes fail is because they use the same casing as a 5 speed variant and ram in another gear so everything is slightly miniaturised. I drove a 6 speed Levin and honestly found the 5 speed better too, the throw is pretty much the same imo but the ratios in the 5 speed are a nicer spread, I have a 5 speed with LSD and cannot fault it!
I agree.

There is a thread on here with some pictures showing the weak spots and some extensive damage. I woul have used the 5 gear LSD box as it's lighter and more realiable than the 6 gear not to mention lower ratio
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ozzy
Stage 4
TRUENOSAM
Apr 6 2011, 05:44 PM
supernova-dw
Apr 6 2011, 03:41 PM
Sorry mate but be prepared for problems! Correct me if I'm wrong in regards to the 6 speed in the AE111 but the usual reason why many many 6 speed gearboxes fail is because they use the same casing as a 5 speed variant and ram in another gear so everything is slightly miniaturised. I drove a 6 speed Levin and honestly found the 5 speed better too, the throw is pretty much the same imo but the ratios in the 5 speed are a nicer spread, I have a 5 speed with LSD and cannot fault it!
I agree.

There is a thread on here with some pictures showing the weak spots and some extensive damage. I woul have used the 5 gear LSD box as it's lighter and more realiable than the 6 gear not to mention lower ratio
Trust me lads i know what im doing ive had about 10 levins. The 5 speed around a track is no good at all the ratios are to long and you drop out of the power band on some corners. The 6 speed is an amazing box on track, keeps the engine up in the high revs all the time with the closer raios and is perfectly reliable once your kind to it. In a straight line the gearboxes are pretty much the same but i know a guy who put a 6 speed into his levin ae92 track car and gained 4 seconds a lap around mondello park.
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TRUENOSAM
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Fair enough mate. Just don't moan when it drops to bits....... Just kidding :P

I hope it gives you some decent lap times with it :thumbsup:
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Levin BZR
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Posted Image

Good luck.. I had 3 AE111, with 6 speed gearbox. Yes, it is good in a track, BUT I always had this problem. You can't push it. :whistle: :whistle:
Edited by Levin BZR, Apr 7 2011, 08:54 PM.
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supernova-dw


Yeh they're very problematic! Fair enough they may be good ratio wise but to be honest I'd get sick of it keep breaking!
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ozzy
Stage 4
Ive had loads of them and pushed them hard on track and on the road. Never had a problem. If you broke 3 of them you obviously arent treating them right...
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thegame-01
Stage 3
any pic of the mount on the car?
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Levin BZR
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ozzy
Apr 10 2011, 05:42 PM
Ive had loads of them and pushed them hard on track and on the road. Never had a problem. If you broke 3 of them you obviously arent treating them right...
I don't think that 7 to 10 people aren't treating them right.. It's common problem buddy, as C160 gearboxes are weak. Good luck with it.

ps: I had aftermarket racing clutch on them. With the oem setup, I didn't have any problem.
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ozzy
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thegame-01
Apr 12 2011, 01:57 AM
any pic of the mount on the car?
Thats why you broke them. Aftermarket clutch with a 6 speed is a big no no
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Levin BZR
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ozzy
Apr 13 2011, 11:41 AM
thegame-01
Apr 12 2011, 01:57 AM
any pic of the mount on the car?
Thats why you broke them. Aftermarket clutch with a 6 speed is a big no no
Yes, but a 20V in a circuit with no racing clutch+lighweight flywheel= 1.5 second slower per lap (for lap around 62 seconds with a Levin BZR).
1.5 second is A LOT! Now with my 5 speed gearbox I can do the same lap as the 6 speed on that track and a few better. Depends on the weather.
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ozzy
Stage 4
I highly doubt a clutch and flywheel will give you 1.5 seconds per lap but anyways this setup will only be ran for a few months. When the car is racing it will have a 2zz ge with a d&d intake manifold and piper cams tuned on a power fc, should be around 240bhp
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thegame-01
Stage 3
ozzy
Apr 13 2011, 11:41 AM
thegame-01
Apr 12 2011, 01:57 AM
any pic of the mount on the car?
Thats why you broke them. Aftermarket clutch with a 6 speed is a big no no

ha? i have a stock clutch but just wanted to see how it fitted on the car.
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Levin BZR
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ozzy
Apr 13 2011, 10:44 PM
I highly doubt a clutch and flywheel will give you 1.5 seconds per lap but anyways this setup will only be ran for a few months. When the car is racing it will have a 2zz ge with a d&d intake manifold and piper cams tuned on a power fc, should be around 240bhp
Better gear change + getting RPM faster + better response of car = 1.5 second in that circuit :whistle:
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ozzy
Stage 4
Levin BZR
Apr 14 2011, 11:02 AM
ozzy
Apr 13 2011, 10:44 PM
I highly doubt a clutch and flywheel will give you 1.5 seconds per lap but anyways this setup will only be ran for a few months. When the car is racing it will have a 2zz ge with a d&d intake manifold and piper cams tuned on a power fc, should be around 240bhp
Better gear change + getting RPM faster + better response of car = 1.5 second in that circuit :whistle:
What do you mean by better gear change and getting rpm faster? The car might feel a bit more responsive when changing gear but theres no way in the world you would get 1.5 seconds over a 60 second lap from an uprated clutch unless your old one was slipping or something. I come from a family that builds and races saloon cars im going from experience here.
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Levin BZR
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In a slow circuit with lots of bends, a racing clutch set will made this difference. Believe it or not. It has been checked not only with an AE111, but with several cars. You only use 3rd gear once in this circuit. I am talking for this example that I am sure about it. In a different circuit with different shape and weather conditions, the results may not be the same. A racing clutch set (I am talking about the TRD disc+ clutch cover and flywheel) will not give any hp, but better gearing.

From TRD website:
■Designed and developed to raise the bar across the practical speed range from low to high.
■Made 24 to 50% lighter than factory flywheels (varies by model). This reduces its inertial moment by 22 to 50%, and delivers outstanding engine response and sharp ??power transfer rise??. (Material: Chromium molybdenum steel)
■Together with the TRD clutch cover & disc set, the TRD Lightweight Flywheel gives you reliable clutch work and losslessly transfers the engine power to the drive system.
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