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Remove rev limiter
Topic Started: Jul 7 2010, 09:00 AM (1,495 Views)
9,10,levin
Stage 4
I am getting sick of the petrol cutting out or what ever happens
wen I hit 8000rpm so my question is how do I remove this rev limiter ? Is there a kit like the HKS-SLD that I can install
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mike ae111
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new ae111 coming soon
bee rev limiter does it i think
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Kaiser
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Stage 5
9,10,levin
Jul 7 2010, 09:00 AM
I am getting sick of the petrol cutting out or what ever happens
wen I hit 8000rpm so my question is how do I remove this rev limiter ? Is there a kit like the HKS-SLD that I can install
The rev limiter is there to stop you damaging the engine
Edited by Kaiser, Jul 7 2010, 10:11 AM.
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robcam
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96BZR

CHANGE GEAR !!!!!!!!

Removing it is just stupid on a stock/ near stock engine hence why they don't make modules purely to do so.
You will need a new ecu to do it.
Neither the sld or bee-r will do it.
Bee-r is to make backfires / launch control via ignition cut.
SLD removes speed cut.
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
I know it's there to stop me damaging the engine but as you know this engine can be pushed alot harder than 8000rpm
9000rpm is all I am looking to push to that extra bit gives me me more power
Koz when I change gear the revs drop and changing from 3rd to fourth loses me the race everytime and it's nothing to do with my gear change as I have a v.fast change.
So would a new ecu be the only option ?
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irishgerard
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Stage 6
you wont get any benifits really as the engine doesnt really gain that much power after it goes off VVT
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bigshark
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Stage 6
doesnt power peak at 7800ish (or even less??) rpm anyway?
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
Well what otherway am I going to gain more power ?
I have cusco headers, hi-flow cat, trd spark cables, huge k&n pod biggest you can buy, that's about it ATM
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robcam
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96BZR

Stop street racing.... Take your car to a race track with corners...
Top of third on the 6spd must be like 160kph..? Doing this next to another car on the road is just stupidity.

Turbo.

Cams.

Ecu.

Make the car lighter.

Stock air-box, pod filter is more than likely losing you power. Leads don't really increase hp.

But if all you want to do is a drag race go buy something else.

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ned
Stage 2
robcam
Jul 7 2010, 12:31 PM

Top of third on the 6spd must be like 160kph..?

top of 3rd hits about 140kph if i remember correctly.
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BZR4AGE
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JDM TODA
all i can say is....good luck with conrods
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

Also aren't the ECU's only mapped to 8,000rpm anyway?


Yeah top of 3rd is about 130 or 140
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robcam
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96BZR

1t1. Yea I don't think it would be mapped much past 8000, maybe 8200rpm as thats about the revs if you hit the limiter.

Na do it. We all wan't to see how long it lasts. Make sure you post lots of images when it fails.
Edited by robcam, Jul 7 2010, 08:45 PM.
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

robcam
Jul 7 2010, 08:42 PM
Na do it. We all wan't to see how long it lasts. Make sure you post lots of images when it fails.
Haha brutal!
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chilli
Stage 4
imo I think the engine would last a while as long as it doesnt see 9k rpm too often.

Also I would change the oil every 3000 to make sure its clean (and also lower the chance of driving while having an engine with low oil)
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
@ robcam
Firstly I never said I street raced, I drag race against Type R's, preludes, pulsar SSS, ect..
And secondly how would the pod be losing me power ? Huge surface area = more air
Also it is on top of the bottom of the box so it still get cool air from there.
And finally my car maxes 180kpm in fourth with 7800rpm so 2 gears left :)

P.s no need to be a smart arse
Edited by DreadAngel, Jul 11 2010, 03:31 PM.
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

It's pretty hot in Sydney right? Exposed pod filter in hot engine bay isn't ideal. If you could place the filter in the inner guard or in a sealed box that is fed air from the outside this would be a start.

As even though the filter is sitting on top of the air box lower half with the ducting to behind the head light it's still sucking all that hot air from radiator and heat coming off exhaust manifold etc.... Ofcourse i may have miss read your previous posts and be completely wrong
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robcam
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96BZR

Pod will be losing power because its just sucking in hot air.
Here is an image if the stock intake system. Air is not forced into it, it relies on the air being sucked through. So in the case of a pod sitting in the bottom half as there is no seal there is no suction.
Posted Image

Heres the easy way to make it go faster. :wall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5lHdZ8gF6E
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
Funny vid but I won't be doing that back seats can be useful from time to time :P
So u think that the pod was a waste of money ? The box will be better ?
Or what about that ARC magic thing ?
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1i1
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NZ Toyota Parts Guy

9,10,levin
Jul 8 2010, 03:54 AM
So u think that the pod was a waste of money ?
Sitting open in the engine bay, yes
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BZR4AGE
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JDM TODA
ARC is the same..sucks in all the hot air unless you make a heat shield. and that air chamber thing, despite many people calling it a cold intake, IT IS NOT! it is simply an air reservior!
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Kaiser
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Stage 5
LOL at this thread :rotfl:
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n2o
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mechanical n00b
boys, i don't mind a good discussion, just don't let it turn into a mud slinging match
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
Fair enough I will stay away from the arc
But one more thing
what about the 4 pod filters instead of trumpets ?
Or will they suck in hot air aswell ?
Maybe I should just thermo wrap my manifold ?
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irishgerard
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Stage 6
if you have no vent or a very good cold feed to them..... i wouldnt recomend it as they will suffer big time to get cold air into them...
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
okay so would imec trumpets inside the stock intake be worth while ?
if so what size should i be looking at for greatest gains ?

also is there any cold intake systems worth getting out there ?
Edited by 9,10,levin, Jul 8 2010, 10:31 AM.
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irishgerard
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Stage 6
I would say yes as they are kept away from too much heat although im not running trumpets as yet maybe someone could shed more light

I made my own Intake system using some stainless piping and hose couplers
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Levin BZR
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Make a CAI filter with Imec trumpets buddy. Go to my profile to get an idea of it
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frax
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Stage 6
Deff keep the stock plenum. the arc intake chamber is good if you've removed the air res from behind the front bar to run a cold air feed.
Like robcam said get out on the track with corners. straight line racing dont mean #$%^ all. and please please change gear before you hit the limiter. one of the main reasons you are probably loosing is because you taking it way beyond peak power. after that the power band curves back down.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Is your car 6 speed? Maybe the lag your thinking about when changing gears is the fact that Toyota make the 6 speed ECU have a slight delay to help stop ruining the gearbox by being too harsh on the synchro. If you were to fit a 5 speed ECU you'd notice the revs pick up sooner in the next gear.
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
@frax what i said to start the thread was a scenario i think i have hit the limiter maybe 3 times from not paying enough attention but still i have looked on other levin, ae111 ect... forums and one said that reving to 9000rpm is better and i know my neighbour has a integra type R and he can rev his to 10,000rpm and it picks up power as it goes, maybe he has a aftermarket ECU i dont know but man does it fly,
does the ae111 have something wired in like the V-TEC ?

@Escy yes my car is a 6speed so that could be why i have also seen that dropping the clutch is a bad idea (lucky i dont do it :) )
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
@robcam

Today i spoke to a local modifying company and he believes that regardless of the pod sucking in hot air it gets a larger flow of air to the engine as the stock box is very restrictive and their is no way that the stock box has better gains compared to the pod, he also said that a cold air induction pipe could help gain a little more power but nothing significant :D
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Kaiser
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Stage 5
9,10,levin
Jul 9 2010, 11:32 AM
@robcam

Today i spoke to a local modifying company and he believes that regardless of the pod sucking in hot air it gets a larger flow of air to the engine as the stock box is very restrictive and their is no way that the stock box has better gains compared to the pod, he also said that a cold air induction pipe could help gain a little more power but nothing significant :D
Was he the guy who sold you the pod?

The stock box is not particularly restrictive, most posters found that their power improved after changing from an open pod to the stock airbox
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irishgerard
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Stage 6
9,10,levin
Jul 9 2010, 11:23 AM
@frax what i said to start the thread was a scenario i think i have hit the limiter maybe 3 times from not paying enough attention but still i have looked on other levin, ae111 ect... forums and one said that reving to 9000rpm is better and i know my neighbour has a integra type R and he can rev his to 10,000rpm and it picks up power as it goes, maybe he has a aftermarket ECU i dont know but man does it fly,
does the ae111 have something wired in like the V-TEC ?

@Escy yes my car is a 6speed so that could be why i have also seen that dropping the clutch is a bad idea (lucky i dont do it :) )
Its because VTEC goes from 5800rpm all the way up to 8000rpm where as our VVT kicks in at around 4k and lasts to 6800rpm(correct me if im wrong)

If he revs it all the way to 10k he has had a re map to make it do that but since our power band dies earlier than the typeR's there wont be much gain
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Kaiser
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Stage 5
From another thread:

from 1700rpm and below 15% throttle to 6400rpm and below 35% throttle - VVT off
above 6400 rpm regardless of throttle % always off

With any other condition above 1700rpm and 15% throttle and UP TO 6400rpm and above 35% throttle - vvt on
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
Kaiser
Jul 9 2010, 11:56 AM
9,10,levin
Jul 9 2010, 11:32 AM
@robcam

Today i spoke to a local modifying company and he believes that regardless of the pod sucking in hot air it gets a larger flow of air to the engine as the stock box is very restrictive and their is no way that the stock box has better gains compared to the pod, he also said that a cold air induction pipe could help gain a little more power but nothing significant :D
Was he the guy who sold you the pod?

The stock box is not particularly restrictive, most posters found that their power improved after changing from an open pod to the stock airbox
well if you look at the size of the pipe it kinda is restrictive not very wide at all,
and no i did not buy the pod off that same guy i bought it of my own free will, but i was looking at this

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RC-5052AL

any negatives with this system ?
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
You're thinking Turbo cars man... And so is that company of yours... Your car is only 1.6L engine, you don't need so much air... Stock air box is restrictive with that smallish mouth leading to the resonator BUT the piping leading to the intake plenum is spot on otherwise ARC would've changed it...

NA cars, you have to be a lot more careful with the intake system, simply stuffing a pod on the end of the stock rubber arm = power + torque loss... Sounds faster BUT its all psychological.

You have SRI (Short Ram Intake) which has heat soak from the pod being exposed to engine bay therefore loss of power but response is better than CAI due to the arm length.

CAI (Cold Air Intake) which stucks cold air directly from outside BUT the intake arm itself is LONG don't expect your engine response to be as good as before (loss in low and a bit in midrange) but power out top is better. Hydrolock is also an issue...

Depending on your engine's condition (AE111s coming to Australia generally in average shape) it can last a while at above 8000rpm. Your mate with the DC2R, unless its a fully rebuilt B18C + tuned for ultra high RPM, I highly doubt it can rev 10,000RPM. Stock JDM B18C redline is @ 8600RPM, AUDM is about the same from memory.

To answer your original question, HKS SLD won't do **** for you except remove your 180km/h speed muzzel... Get something like the Apexi RSM which I think removes the limiter? Bee*R doesn't raise the limiter or remove, it only lowers it...

What the hell are you doing up there anyway? Stock AE111 cams aren't aggressive enough beyond 8000RPM, they're already running out of puff before 7500rpm anyway...

Keep the BS hero race stories to the thread, if you're referring to legal drag racing, that means you can do it only at one place...
Edited by DreadAngel, Jul 10 2010, 02:07 PM.
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
F*** calm down mate no need to get female on me

And if I do legal or illegal races
So what ?
Most ppl smoke you probably smoke and that kills
What I do with my car is up to me
And I think if you believe nobody with a jdm car races illegally then I duno what BS world you live in!

All I wanted to find out was if I could remove the rev limiter
not to have botching sessions with fellow owners
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robcam
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96BZR

9,10,levin
Jul 10 2010, 11:59 PM
F*** calm down mate no need to get female on me

And if I do legal or illegal races
So what ?
Most ppl smoke you probably smoke and that kills
What I do with my car is up to me
And I think if you believe nobody with a jdm car races illegally then I duno what BS world you live in!

All I wanted to find out was if I could remove the rev limiter
not to have botching sessions with fellow owners
With a POV like that maybe your on the wrong forum.
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n2o
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mechanical n00b
this thread will now be under constant obeservation by the moderation team and possibly closed.

9.10.levin - i suggest you watch your tone when speaking to an admin, the moderation team is here to help. He has answered all your questions and he has every right to tell you stop posting your illegal activites. Our forum doesn't need the attention from the authorities

if you wish to discuss this further, keep it to PMs

take heed all posters
Edited by n2o, Jul 11 2010, 12:45 AM.
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
I agree that he answered all my questions
BUT
The last comment there was no need for !
I never once said I raced illegally
I never spoke of any illegal activity apart the pod filter I put on
I just don't see why someone who is supposed to help needs to make a comment like that ?
I have never spoken to the guy.
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Ikenty
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BZ Touring Carib
Hi guys. I have driven both the six speed and five speed and also one Hybrid. What I realized is that the 6 Speed makes you feel like you are accelerating faster because of the faster gear changes and the five speed feels slower but it is not. When we converted the BZR to five speed C52 there was still the same delay that the 6 speed box had. Guess its the ECU. The ECU in the BZR does rev a lot higher than mines in the Carib. My revs stop at 8250rpm while the BZR goes down to 9000rpm. Both have the same part number on them so how is this possible.
1998 Levin BZR (6 Speed LSD now converted to 5 Speed (C52) LSD)
1998 Carib BZ-T (6 Speed no LSD)
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
Learn to read the disclaimer after your suspension...

Its posted in the disclaimer mate, anything that staff suspect is remotely close to illegal racing will be punished by staff discretion if member decides to ignore our warnings.

I spoke to you in that way because you attacked other members of the community saying you didn't race illegally and your word choice being highly aggressive/abusive.

You drag raced other "Japanese" cars. You can't even say where you drag race? There is only one place in NSW you can do it legally. Where is the timeslip if you don't mind me asking?

Why get so defensive if others are wrong eh?
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irishgerard
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Stage 6
tbqh i think this thread needs locking before any more insults get thrown around...
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BZR4AGE
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JDM TODA
9,10,levin
Jul 11 2010, 02:17 AM
I agree that he answered all my questions
BUT
The last comment there was no need for !
I never once said I raced illegally
I never spoke of any illegal activity apart the pod filter I put on
I just don't see why someone who is supposed to help needs to make a comment like that ?
I have never spoken to the guy.
Mate, at the end of the day, we all are trying to help you. But like you said, it is your car, and you have every right to do what ever you want with it.

If you read through all the information available on this forum, or even just the 'stickys' in each section (i.e. Engine, Intake, Exhaust) etc etc, you will actually learn a lot. And these are put up as sticky as they are proven information regarding each of the relevant topics.

Yes a mechanic or performance may tell you otherwise, but unless they have a AE111 with 4AGE 20V as their company car or demo car, I wouldn't really listen to them. Different cars are tuned and produced differently. In otherwords, is words of members whos spent thousands of hours tuning our engine VS a performance shop guy who probably work with a mixture of cars, and probably only 100 hours on a 4AGE 20V.

Regarding rev limit, in my honest opinion I don't think you should raise it as it is not very safe. Have a look at the conrod section and you will see bent rods and why they fail.

If you are hoping to beat a ITR by just rasing the rev limit, it simply won't work, you need more mods to be able to to it. Look at different people's build log and get some ideas.

In NZ, a healthy ITR I've seen can get 125kw at the wheel, I have seen a lightly modified ITR producing 130kw atw. I myself spent heaps of effort and money to get 131kw atw on the 20V. A stock 20V gets about 100ish kw atw. So you see if you are still pretty stock, I don't think even raising the rev limit you will increase your power to beat a 125kw car on a staright line. (maybe on a track, but definately not a drag race).

At the end of the day, the choice is yours, and try to respect other members. If you feel others are not repecting you, then just tone your attitude down a bit etc, and just keep in mind those guys are only there to save you from blowing up your engine.
Edited by BZR4AGE, Jul 11 2010, 11:02 PM.
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AceSniper
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Global Moderator

As above...
I see stock blacktops dyno all over the 80kw range and itr's in the 115-125kw range on the same dyno.

To get what you want you will have to build it with cams or build it for boost there is no cheap power on the 20v as all the cheap easy tricks that mite make you power on ya average engine are all done to a higher level than the backyard thrasher.


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20vees
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Stage 4
good read ,good info and good old fashion getting banned lol
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PeterAE111
Stage 4
Yeah got some useful info here guys. Thinking about reverting back to stock intake from apexi induction kit at least until I can get the manifold heat wrapped and build a heat shield for the filter with cold air feed, I read somewhere probably here that this setup could produce gains. Plenty of food for thought though.

With regards to increasing the rev limit yeah as so many people have already said con rods will be an issue. Can't find the link but I remember reading about a guy whose con rods went and blew a relatively stock engine with some moderate track work.

Peak power according to factory figures is 7800 varying with temperatures the particular engine etc, Mine peaked just under 8k on a dyno. But to go beyond it is pointless as the power drops off so steeply.
Edited by PeterAE111, Jul 14 2010, 10:55 AM.
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meg_omen
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Stage 5
you would only want to increase the rev limit if you've high duration cams like 272 onwards. still need to built the engine bottom end to support the high revving like ACL bearings etc.

rev limit on stock ecu:-
Auto ecu = 7800rpm
5spd ecu = 8000rpm
6spd ecu = 8200rpm

the best is to use a standalone ecu to increase the rev limit.
or you need somebody good with the ecu to modify them.
there's somebody in Malaysia can do it, increase another 1000rpm from stock limit... but I'm still not justify whether to do it coz the torque normally decrease after 7000rpm...

i attached the latest dyno run... :whistle:
April2010 - still using stock Auto ecu, rev limit 7800
July2010 - using 6spd manual ecu, rev limit 8200
Attached to this post:
Attachments: 20v_April2010.jpg (105.87 KB)
Attachments: 20v_July2010.jpg (99.79 KB)
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9,10,levin
Stage 4
Thanks or all the info people :)
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SileightY
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... It's so cool ! ...
Excursion to WSID anyone?
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Z33kdud3
Stage 6
meg_omen
Jul 16 2010, 07:30 AM
you would only want to increase the rev limit if you've high duration cams like 272 onwards. still need to built the engine bottom end to support the high revving like ACL bearings etc.

rev limit on stock ecu:-
Auto ecu = 7800rpm
5spd ecu = 8000rpm
6spd ecu = 8200rpm

the best is to use a standalone ecu to increase the rev limit.
or you need somebody good with the ecu to modify them.
there's somebody in Malaysia can do it, increase another 1000rpm from stock limit... but I'm still not justify whether to do it coz the torque normally decrease after 7000rpm...

i attached the latest dyno run... :whistle:
April2010 - still using stock Auto ecu, rev limit 7800
July2010 - using 6spd manual ecu, rev limit 8200
manual 6speed max out at 8200rpm? then that makes me think ive got in an auto ecu then. i have over revved a few times and wen looking at thr rpm gauge the limiter clicks in exactly on 8000rpm.

but for wuts goin on in the thread earlier up, no need to remove limiter on stock blacktop ecu and internals, you will not gain any more power beyond that peak which is 8000rpm, thats why the builders redlined it there, thats wen cams have reach their final destinations. :cheers:
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chiksluvit
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[OO\_____/OO]
haven't come here for a while and look at what i've missed out....
yes the BT runs out of efficiency over 8000rpm

on a honda it feels like you can't go further when you reach about say 6000rpm, caus the engine sounds like its about to explode. But you can caus thats what vtec sound like when the high profile cams switch over

On an AE111 its so smooth it feels like you can go further when you reach 8000 rpm but you can't, since it doesn't rely on VTEC-like mechanism
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Ikenty
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BZ Touring Carib
Well this makes sense. I was going to use the ECU from my friends levin BZR that revs to 9000rpm but since my engine is stock the blacktop stock ECU should be fine.
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AceSniper
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Global Moderator

stock rods = stock limiter... don't piss around unless you have easy access to more engines.

there's two crystals in the ecu one is speed limiter one is rpm limiter
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