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Trumpets/Ram Pipes/Velocity Stacks
Topic Started: Jan 7 2008, 09:52 AM (3,121 Views)
LevinItUp
Stage 4
Hey guys,

I've been talking to a fabricator here, and I can get ramtubes made (sweet!) for my car, for a good price.

Has anyone had this done?

I'm looking at getting ramtubes inside the stock plenum, to replace those stock awful horns.

If anyone had the dimensions / diagram for the ramtubes it would be much appreciated (makes getting them fabricated easier).

Other than that, anyone who has had them done, have you noticed any improvement? (obviously... there are going to be other mods done too.. even to the intake... just looking at doing ramtubes as one of my first mods because I can get them fabricated locally).

Thanks
Glen
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

Wolftown,Jan 7 2008
10:16 AM
McNamara Motorsport in Ireland do an all in kit for ~€500 which includes the stacks, necassary sensors, installation of these parts and also installation of a direct cold air feed running from the front bumper straight to the ITB's.

A full kit is what I'm looking for at the moment, do you know what kind of gains you would looking to achieve with the McNamara kit?

I'd definitely look into that set-up as most of the full kits I've found have not been based in Europe. Maybe we could even sort a group buy...

Wolftown,Jan 7 2008
10:31 AM
To be perfectly honest I have no idea what exact power gains to expect, but the noise is supposed top be unreal! I have been planning on getting this done for a while, I just really want to see and experience them first hand before commiting to them..

That's kind of why I'm holding out. I've seen the videos etc. on youtube of them fitted to the 4A-GE though and they do sound absolutely amazing but it's hard committing 500euro's to the kit without any first hand experience...
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LevinItUp
Stage 4
That kit looks kinda cool,

But I dont think I see that kind of moneys worth...

I've been quoted approximately 120 AUD to have my ramtubes made...

I was looking at just putting them in the stock air box... with an ARC air box, ARC super intake chamber (basically... it is a large box after the air box that improves response due to larger intake volume), and then plumbing my own piping to the air box.

Atleast... over here the cops don't like exposed pod filters in your engine bay.


then again... don't ask the price of those two ARC parts.... about 600 AUD


Well thats cheaper...

720 AUD is less than 500 Euros.

(500 Euro's is about 850 AUD)

My biggest objection to the pod style filters is heatsoak... they tend to always get hot, and stay hot, especially being so far back in your engine bay (Then again.. I'm also talking about 30 - 40 Degree days... Celcius)
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

That sounds like it'd be a pretty good set-up too.

I've seen a few people make a cold air feed up through where the old air filter box sits, aimed directly at the throttles. Could be one way to help feed them cooler air and avoid the heatsoak...
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smithy
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Stage 4
Wolftown,Jan 7 2008
10:06 AM
Is it the same setup as this one has:

If so, I've heard good things about it but have no first hand experience. It's an idea i've been toying with for a while now..

Ive the same setup as this! The noise that it makes is absouletely SENSATIONAL!!! B)
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

Stop it you're making the temptation too much! :lol:

Must.save.money. :lol:
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bz-r
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Stage 4
so it aint worth it no?
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smithy
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Gar_DTD
Jan 9 2008, 07:49 PM
the car i have at the moment had these on it with an apexi power fc and when it was all set up and done it wasnt really doing much for the car...there was a massive flat spot through the revs and it was running lean and eveything...they were removed in palce of the standard airbox and an apexi panel filter and the car made the only 4bhp less and 2 f/lb of torque less...and no flat spot...

i wouldnt bother with these unless you had cams and the head work done...and i would be looking at the greddy e-manage to look after it all when its done...and whatever you do if you do it dont raise the bonnet...because all that does is causes a vacum in the engine bay and will actully just suck the air stright out instead of into the intake...

Whatever about the cams hes right about the e-manage! If your gonna go down this route then be prepared to have to pay for it :( ! Its not just something you can buy and see instant gains, theres alot of fiddling around to do to get it right. I havent had mine dyno'ed yet but i prob will in the near future so il let ye know how it goes!
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LevinItUp
Stage 4
Hey guys,

I was looking at running them inside the standard plenum, but I was looking at doing it atleast at the same time as a Greddy Emanage Ultimate and Cams.

Before doing this I was going to fit an ARC air box and either bigger piping from the air box to the plenum, or an ARC intake chamber... and cold air intake to the bottom of the ARC air box.

Thanks for the advice

I want to do a few things to the car before I go and get the emanage, or be able to do a few things at once, so its cheaper to get it properly tuned.

You don't happen to have the dimensions of your ramtubes do you? The fabricator I have spoken to is after measurements (I'm not sure whether to make them as long as will fit in the standard plenum, or to make them shorter.)
I'm under the impression that about 5 cm long with a large ammount of bellmouthing should give both good horsepower and torque
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Peter
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Stage 6
size matters with these, long or short tubes can make a big difference, toyota put a bit of research into the stock ones, but adjusting the size can make it rev faster and bring your torque on lower in the revs, they're not just for making power, but more adjusting where it comes into play.
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AceSniper
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Ideal length for torque at certin rpm also changes with vvt, the stock trumpits are around that length, so same length but not twisted an a nice bell out be good.
about 200NZD here for 4xalloy ones

Im runing Imec ones (red plastic jap) there very short but seam to be good
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Wolftown
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Stage 5
Gar_DTD
Jan 9 2008, 07:49 PM
the car i have at the moment had these on it with an apexi power fc and when it was all set up and done it wasnt really doing much for the car...there was a massive flat spot through the revs and it was running lean and eveything...they were removed in palce of the standard airbox and an apexi panel filter and the car made the only 4bhp less and 2 f/lb of torque less...and no flat spot...

i wouldnt bother with these unless you had cams and the head work done...and i would be looking at the greddy e-manage to look after it all when its done...and whatever you do if you do it dont raise the bonnet...because all that does is causes a vacum in the engine bay and will actully just suck the air stright out instead of into the intake...

Thats exactly what i needed to hear to hold off on these. Would like to see it setup right all the same..
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20sideways
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20sideways
b real interested 2c this setup 2, does ne1 have pictures???
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one11
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Stage 4
how much did the quad filter cost?
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Francis
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Chasing the Touge

DazaBzr
Jan 15 2008, 02:22 AM
Wolftown
Jan 7 2008, 10:06 AM
Is it the same setup as this one has: http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?f...ar&carID=838869

If so, I've heard good things about it but have no first hand experience. It's an idea i've been toying with for a while now..

Thats my car. Surprised to see a link to it!!

Well it's a great looking car man! :o

Get it up in the showroom. ;)
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LevinItUp
Stage 4
I've bought a set of ramtubes from Japan...
They werent cheap... sourced them off import monster (but i figured better to get some that were designed for the motor... than my attempt at getting the measurements right)

I'm looking at implementing something like this in the plenum after i install the tubes

Posted Image

Supposedly improves airflow into the tubes, which is what we are after. have to make an air guide as well.

I'm considering a new approach with the car... of doing smaller things, like, swaybars, braces, intake, exhaust, the cheaper modifications that have a greater effect and less effect on driveability and longevity. I'll probably throw that out the window, but Its my current thought.

Oh, and those aren't my ramtubes

mine are like this Posted Image

I've also got a pair of these coming...
Posted Image

importmonster.com.au.... expensive unless you find the stuff for sale quite cheap
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nickae111
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Stage 4
Hi people, ive met a guy through yahoo auctions japan and hes got access to a crap load of parts, he mentioned hes got 4 sets of trumpets, they're the high power/short kind i think theyre "imec"?? anyway heres a picture,

Posted Image

i could arrange to get the 4 sets delivered together for cheaper if anyone else is interested? Im currently getting him to find me a set of new fog lights :D
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Billy
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Stage 4
Any chance he has th velocity stacks instead(you knw the ones with da mesh, they are supposed ta be better)
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Mikey Jay
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What price though?
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20sideways
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20sideways
get a price anyway interested 2!!!!
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nickae111
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Stage 4
Just waiting on a reply from him, ill let you know asap!!

if you look on levinoc.com you'll see that with these trumpets alone, a guy got 164bhp (20bhp increase) on a standard blacktop!!! i think you'll agree that is really good without any managament

looking forward to trying them out WITH managment!!

:D
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20sideways
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20sideways
AceSniper
Feb 8 2008, 11:46 PM
yea there imec, and yea im using a set :)

if its good enuf 4 ace its good enuf for me!!!! :D is ther much of an issue with dirt gettin in2 them??? the roads in ireland aint like down under!!!
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nickae111
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damn right!!! ive been running open stacks for months now, no problem!!

if your feeling guilty having no filters then get a pipercross 600 series backplate and filter!!

im happy without them as i change my oil every 2 months!!!

ill get prices asap!!
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20sideways
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20sideways
great, wil it be a problem getin them 2 me??? wat kinda money are u expectin them 2 b??? roughly like!!!
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AceSniper
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im using them inside airbox, found to much torque was lost using them open, that was with stock blacktop tho
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20sideways
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20sideways
i have a hks induction kit on mine, wil i be better off with these inside the box???
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AceSniper
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yep, there better than the stock rubber things
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20sideways
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20sideways
will it make a noticeable power difference??? sent u pm on somethin ther ace!!
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AceSniper
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in the mid to higher rpm you should feel it abit
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20sideways
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20sideways
cool, il give them a go then, do u have any idea wat they cost new ace??
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AceSniper
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no idea,bit costly tho I think they dont make them anymore, Iv seen them on ebay for stupid money, picked mine up for $80nz (im good at finding cheap shit :D)

to make them fit in the airbox you have to trim the edges of the one on the drivers side, this was already on mine.
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20sideways
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20sideways
does it have 2b trimmed by much??? if u have box off any time soon ne chance ud post a pic??? and do i leave my mushroom filter on induction pipe r just remove it???
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AceSniper
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keep filter make sure its getting cold air, dont have a pic sorry, just some of the edge gets sanded off
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BZGISM
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Stage 1
Hey guys, just new to the forum and was hoping to get somne help/ ideas/recommendations on how to go about changing my induction set up.

At the moment im running a stainless steel pipe with a fairly big simota pod on the end which sounds crazy after 5000rpm! Hah like a cheap wastegate..

But im now considering changing to the Trumpet (Velocity Stacks), whereby you wack off the plenum and bolt up 54mm trumpets to each throttle bod, then putting sock filters over each one.

And interesting video i found on youtube has also enlightened me, the cost in setting that up im not sure but would be an excellent showoff mod haha..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGvGgTS4Dcs

Cheers for any info
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Shawn
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// トレノ君 //

yeah i wonder what the numbers are on that thing., i guess it all depends on what ur lookin for. all the things ive read about our engine alot products that arent up to par the same technology as yamaha and toyota did in develpin our motor, you would actualy lose power depending on what products ur boltin on. I also wanna do velocity stacks sometime in the future, but ill attempt to go with the pricey J ones as they have been proven to work.
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Ae111blast
Stage 5
That picture at the top is of that guys of levinoc.com, I can get these stacks for about 75quid over in the uk if anyone else is interested!
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markg-h2o
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Stage 5
Dont know much about these trumpets guys but if dey are as good as yous are saying i want a set
n £75 pounds doesnt sound bad 2 me :)

20sideways,Feb 9 2008
09:03 PM
sounds pretty good 2 me, ifu ur gettin a set mark il give u money 4mine 2, if we only have 2 pay 1 postage itl help keep cost down???

good thinkin der colin keep postage down ;)
2 sets for donegal please :D
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AceSniper
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I dont think id say 20hp from just them
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20sideways
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20sideways
nickae111,Feb 9 2008
11:24 PM
Right screw that!! heres some for cheaper!! my guy wanted £98 per set!!

this guy wants $139 (£71) plus $35.75 postage (£18) to UK = £89 all in!!

thats pretty good for an instant 20 bhp ish!!

are they the same make, length ect??? no way somethin that simple cud give 20bhp???? ne chance of a deal if we order large numbers??
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markg-h2o
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Stage 5
i realy dont c these getin any1 20 extra bhp , ud b fairly guilable 2 fall for claims like this i think :lol:

done a we bit of research into dem dis evenin n the theory is der so im still on 4 gettin dem but 2 be honest i dont c dem making any huge difference on der one ;)

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20sideways
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20sideways
markg-h2o
Feb 10 2008, 12:13 AM
20sideways
Feb 9 2008, 10:17 PM
have u got exhaust system yet mark???  nething else u need coz im plannin on gettin few bits nd pieses soon so cud do it the same way. hid???

na no plans 4 exaust systems at da min colin
deffinitley would get stuff 2gether to save postage tho

if u hav any plans 2 get stuff send me a message n il let u no tho
good man

no prob, sure il add u on msn now, make things handier!!!
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nickae111
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Stage 4
Proven 20bhp

click link below then go to ae111, then down to "20vlevin Rolling Road Results"

HERE


:D
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markg-h2o
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Stage 5
nick dont get ur hopes up on getin 20 bhp is all im sayin
at the end off the day all ur doin is changing little inlets into the boddies
after lookin it up earlier in da day in theory as far as i can see ur biggest improvement should be in torque mainly in higher revs but again dont expect a savage improvement
hp wise runnin everything else standard id be pretty happy with an extra 4 or 5 hp

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nickae111
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Stage 4
yea thats fair enough, ah well it'll be worth a laugh anyway!!

im just going through different set-ups to see what im happy with to be honest, ill probably be selling a few bits and bobs once ive all the parts arrive and ive had a chance to try them!

that guy must be joking with the 20bhp increase?! i wonder how he did it! :lol:
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markg-h2o
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Stage 5
dont no what all he has done
im goin 2 try these trumpets 2 any way they will be better dan stock ones anyway :D
and there not very expensive either so its a win win as far as i can see it

im goin 2 try them in the origional box goin 2 da arc chamber i ordered n c how that goes :D

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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
i've got toda racing trumpets on mine and below are what it sounds like....
there are few sizes for ae101 and ae111...

TODA

TODA

TODA

also here's the article from toda racing... they're not cheap stuff.....
TODA Racing trumpets
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ae111
Stage 5
how do you find these for power?? was there much of an increase in power for you
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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
well i haven't used my car much after installing them and also didn't have time to dyno it and find the difference...
but does sound awesome when dipping and accelerating the throttle... also noisy too at high rpm....
there is a slight feel of loss power at low rpm but certain very quick response on pick up above 5,000rpm onwards....
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JP89
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Stage 6
Wat wud this cost me in euros to get them to Ireland ;) . I think dey wud luk well and any power increase is a help
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nickae111
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Stage 4
i got mine for like 69 pounds delivered to Northern Ireland

just email the bloke for a quote,

oh and i was made to pay import tax to fedex :angry: 20 quid
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JP89
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Stage 6
I rather da longer ones r da velocity stacks, du no where these can be got??? ;)
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nickae111
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Stage 4
Ive got a nice set of anodised long ones, might sell them but not sure yet!!
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ae111
Stage 5
Just after seen these on NENGUN what you all reckon????

http://www.nengun.com/toda/straight-trumpet

i like :D
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20sideways
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20sideways
how much are they???
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Mantis
GYROFTW
€60 each before shipping!
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20sideways
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20sideways
too much in my opinion, mcnsport in cork do 70mm alumineum ones for €150!!!!
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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
i've got it on my car... haven't dyno it yet.... but certainly sound nice and have good response after 5000rpm.... got the 63mm one...
yes it's expensive but at least it's brenchmark tested with the size and design calculations done for maximum air velocity sucking in just for our cars only... not just any trumpet which is multi fit...
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ae111
Stage 5
there 83euro shipped not bad IF you do get that 5bhp it actually cheap for the power gain....in my opinion anyway!!
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evaril
Stage 4
i have head bad things about water etc getting into uncovered trumpets and blowing an engine apart, is there any way to fit the arc induction box or stock plenum over it?
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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
you can still use the black pendulum box... and replace the standard rubber trumpets...

there's actually many ways to config the air intake and prevent water or foreign objects getting into the engine...

but i have actually driven my car 6 hrs straight in heavy rain and bit of mud too with the trumpets uncovered.... and was still fine.... since our intake is at the back of the engine....
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mackey
Stage 3
hey all im from australia just wondering as to were would be my closest option to get a set of the "trumpets" that replace the plenum and bolt onto the throttle bodys.....any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks!!
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kyleseo
Stage 5

tweakit.net

Think thats the site, sure their based in oz as well.
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
Tweakit I think advertises the TTT (Techno Toy Tuning) Trumpets which are 75mm long, EFI Hardware has the Pro series Trumpet shortest is 63mm longest is god knows how long. There is another place I'm trying and see what it comes out like, 50mm so fits inside the stock plenum, will get back to all the Aussie fellas interested in trumpets and see what can be done =)
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kyleseo
Stage 5

Sure tweakit do some 105mm ones as well.
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mackey
Stage 3
thanks heaps...
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sabajin
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sabajin
check this toda trumpets :), hope this help you.

http://www.nengun.com/toda/straight-trumpet
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bob
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Stage 4
Hi... im new to this and i was just tintin about gettin trumpets for my levin. anyone know any thing about them if there good for the engine or am i better off wit out them :idk:
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devo
Stage 6
welcome to the club lad ye the trumpets be good for the performance of the levin but its all about the cold air feed hav a browse threw the engine section of the site there is a topic on the trumpets :D
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bridgo
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Stage 4
Whats the correct size to get. They have a few fifferant lengths for sale on nengun but whats the differance. Also do you have to do any mapping or anything to get most out of trumpets. The ones in this ae111 sound sweet :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0UPs8qtrF0
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DreadAngel
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Han Lue
Depending on your application and needs will determine the length...

50mm for inside stock plenum, then anything goes if you're ditching the entire stock induction system. Beware there are drivability issues running trumpets to atmo, you gain top end "potentially" but lose quite a bit of your low/mid range torque/power. I think it was 115mm is the longest before cutting a hole in your bonnet?

As with any mod, ECU tuning is required to maximise its potential as it changes the parameters of the basic A/F ratio.
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chiksluvit
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[OO\_____/OO]
what he said, air fuel ratio goes out with open trumpets, unless u've got aftermarket ecu
stock ecu will make it run rich and retards timing
in worst case scenerio, it might even decrease the power output..

go with 50mm in box trumpets to be safe, at least u won't be ingesting foreign articles that way

u'd be surprised how much sand/dust makes its way there on the race track when you lose control/ go into sand pit for whatever reason, or if someone else in front of you lost control and dug all the sand up and spread it in the air...
the radiator fan makes sure that everything in the engine bay is covered in sand too, including the firewall, so the open trumpets will definitely get some sand into the combustion chamber
for that reason i always had to clean the engine bay after trackdays...
its ok for race tracks without sand though

if you do go with 50mm inbox trumpets
they dont make as much noise as open trumpets, and you have to trim cyl 1 trumpet so it will clear the airbox

cheers
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BZ-G
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aka Hyper Rev 4...
dub-levin
Jun 10 2008, 10:19 AM
that car belongs toa user in this forums.  ( BZ-G )

yep... that's me alright....

i'm using 63mm without the black box...

it really depends on how you gonna be using your car for... if it's daily driving then better to use 33mm with the box so dust and foreign objects don't get in... not sure about cutting one of the trumpets to clear the box as my intention was not to keep the standard box...

63mm does fit in the box but space for air to flow freely into the throttle is bit limited... so 63mm is designed for open air (without box)...

and 88mm is really design for AE86 fitting our 20V engines since they have a lot of space for air to suck for the trumpets...

i just put the air sensor close to the trumpets with a cable tie and so far it works fine with open trumpets... but i will be getting a stand alone ECU later so air fuel ratio will be sorted and also maximise it's potential which is recommended....

i'm using open air for the meantime since i will be designing a new box for it, just that i like the sound of the trumpets when i accelerate of the traffic lights...

i haven't done a dyno with it and will do one with and with out a ECU....

here's the link to the sizes in english...

TODA Trumpets
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kyleseo
Stage 5

I have not seen any dyno graphs yet that suggets you will loose power with any length. The longer the trumpet the better torque gains you will get, the shorter the better hp gains. At no point will you actually loose power.

There are dyno graphs showing 105mm trumpets on a BT with basic breathing mods and it ran 12whp more with a manual ecu and 8whp more with an auto ecu compared to the base run they previously did. (Manual ecu has more aggressive timing although the auto has a more stable a/f ration)

This gain is with a fatory ecu, a piggyback or standalone would only help further.

I have also seen a graph recently of 75mm trumpets giving about 10whp over stock with manual ecu.
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Shawn
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// トレノ君 //

just wanted to say it sounds SICK(ina good way) :o
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chiksluvit
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[OO\_____/OO]
chiksluvit
Jun 10 2008, 04:20 PM
stock ecu will make it run rich and retards timing
in worst case scenerio, it might even decrease the power output..

i've just quoted myself, and keyword there is "might"

I have tried driving my car with open 50mm trumpets, and the engine felt sluggish. it ran ridiculously rich and retarded. The ECU is not mapped for that kind of airflow increase with open trumpets, plus the increased temperature from the intake, so to be safe, stock ECU dumps much more fuel, richens the a/f mixture, and pulls timing.. none of which are desirable in making power. hence logically, i said it "might" lose power.

due to above reason, and the amount of dust and insects i see on my in-box air filter every week when i clean it, plus the amount of sand that makes its way to the engine bay and firewall every trackday, i suggested 50mm trumpets, because you can have it in-box.

do back to back dyno runs, hookup the wideband lambda sensor, position the air temp sensor where its meant to be, CLOSE the bonnet, and you can get an idea of what the stock ecu is doing to your engine, and whether you really have gain or not. Post up the dyno printouts you referred to, it will be interesting to see.

I've said nothing in my previous post about length of trumpet causing power loss. I was referring to how ECU reacts to open trumpets.

I have tried both stock trumpet and 50mm imec trumpet, shorter trumpets just shifts the power band up higher. any power gain you're getting from aftermarket trumpets is possibly due to the better bellmouth design of the aftermarket trumpet.

I'm just not recommending the use of trumpets without the airbox. I'd rather sacrafise just a few hp and the sound for the longevity of the engine. Although I personally wouldn't do it, but I respect BZ-G's decision of running open throttles while the new airbox is getting made up, stock box isn't ideal in running 63mm trumpets, i'm sure he has weighted the risk of running it open, and the environment he runs it open for a short period of time may not affect the longevity of the engine, plus he is getting a standalone computer to maximise the benefits anyway.

hope that clears my point more
Cheers :cheers:
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