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| What series would you like to see continue? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 20 2008, 07:25 PM (1,619 Views) | |
| SladeJack | Jul 9 2008, 05:07 PM Post #46 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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A GotS sequel would be too chaotic. The Rebs used AKs on the Union, the Union used AKs on the British, presumably the British then went ahead and developed AKs on their own. Maybe they used it on France, which captured some, reverse-engineered them and used them on Prussia, et cetera. Maybe you'd see countries provoking wars with AK powers, accepting the cost of getting pummeled in one war for the chance to capture some and develop an advantage over their other enemies. And maybe the Rebs, as the world's authorities on the weapons, suddenly become a very desirable ally indeed. Otherwise I'm not sure how much impact the Rivington Men's leavings would have. We know they figured out how to make nitroglycerine to treat heart problems, and that dessication of food got better, but as the computer guy said, they don't have the necessary technical abilities to develop many new technologies on their own, nor anywhere close. You'd see augmentation of some nineteenth-century technologies in some pretty interesting ways, but the pace of technological development would likely soon drop off very quickly till it approached its pre-POD pace. If the Rivington men happened to leave a comprehensive history of industrial developments, late-nineteenth century innovations would come more quickly as the trial-and-error of invention dropped off, and guys like Edison would probably find the odd inspiration in examining something new. That reminds me of my biggest complaint about the AoT series, that it took so long for the US to develop the A-Bomb even though the Manhattan Project guys could have sat down with any high-level tech from the MF and find out exactly what they needed to do, and everything they needed to do could be done with the existing technology of the period since the actual invention came just two or three years later. And that in turn reminds me that I wouldn't mind seeing more work done in the AoT universe--on his Crappy Board Birmo said he was trying to decide among three ideas therefor: a straight-forward "What Happens Next?" sequel trilogy, a history of the mission the Hammer was on right before getting sucked into the past, and a series of short stories involving conflicts arising between the two eras' social mores. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Makkabee | Jul 9 2008, 06:18 PM Post #47 |
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Count
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Why provoke wars with AK-armed powers? Isn't it much cheaper and safer to just send in spies to steal a rifle or two and reverse-engineer the puppies? With hundreds of thousands of originals and plenty of US copies in service it'd be impossible to prevent everyone from stealing any weapons. On to AoT: You're right that the slow pace of atomic development was a fault. Since the conflict between 20th and 21st century mores was the most interesting bit for me I'd most like to see the third idea developed, but I'd be willing to take a look at the second idea too and maybe the first. |
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| Donut Revolutionary | Jul 9 2008, 08:59 PM Post #48 |
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Baron
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Diplomacy would become much more difficult as each nation developed there own version of the AK. And I do see weapons production as becoming a hallmark of the south which would lead to a strong industrialization and militarization leading to the same from the north and eventually England, France, and Germany |
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1 I am a god among men and run the biggest alternate history site. I've banned more people than have ever joined this forum or any of its predecessors. 2 Yes you have. You attempted to try using one on me. Just sit back, shut up and work. People like you are peons in our corporatized world so accept it. Or at the very least accept us liberals who get you benefits like socialized medicine. | |
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| SladeJack | Jul 9 2008, 09:39 PM Post #49 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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"Why provoke wars with AK-armed powers? Isn't it much cheaper and safer to just send in spies to steal a rifle or two and reverse-engineer the puppies? With hundreds of thousands of originals and plenty of US copies in service it'd be impossible to prevent everyone from stealing any weapons." Wow. I can't believe I didn't think of that. "Since the conflict between 20th and 21st century mores was the most interesting bit for me I'd most like to see the third idea developed" At the time I didn't want that but thinking on it now it could be good. If he manages to keep out the preachy tone, which he did fairly well in the main body. The thing is, I really don't like short story anthologies all that much. Novels or novellas for me, please. "but I'd be willing to take a look at the second idea too" I voted for that one at the time, but it would probably become implausible now that much of what he wrote as the history of the near future (ie Hillary Clinton as President #44--From the way he hinted at it, that was going to be huge. And wasn't she supposed to defeat Powell to get it?) has been disproved by the recent past. The perils of writing fiction set in the near future. The broader themes, though, especially the effect on our society of a War on Terror that goes on and on--That's worth exploring. "and maybe the first." I'd definitely go for it. The story's ending was pretty satisfying but there's room for more. It wouldn't be the most exciting AH ever written, but it would probably be decent, especially if it gets to the point the Hammer referred to where all the 2020 vintage technology gets reproduced and technological development resumes an even pace. Then unfortunately Birmo has to introduce hi-tech gizmoes from the future and that almost always comes off as silly. The fact that, when approached by Del Rey about continuing the series, he, rather than saying "Of course it will be a direct sequel!" started thinking of other ways to expand his universe, after a mere three shortish books, tells me he doesn't have much interest in that. "Diplomacy would become much more difficult as each nation developed there own version of the AK." Umm . . . why? "And I do see weapons production as becoming a hallmark of the south which would lead to a strong industrialization and militarization" Maybe. Or maybe they rest on their laurels. They were a society fairly comfortable with technical stagnation and averse to industrialization. Unlike in TL-191, they'd learned that they could be bloodied by an industrialized army, but they hadn't really had their noses rubbed in it the way they did OTL as Grant's and Sherman's 1864 campaigns plunged deep into their heartland. They might be content with the fact that the Kalishnikovs (sp?) would allow them to hold any industrial enemies at bay for the time being. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Makkabee | Jul 10 2008, 08:13 AM Post #50 |
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Count
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They've got history books talking about the 20th century that they captured from the Rivington men. That, plus the social revolution of abandoning slavery, could easily put the south on a radically new track. I don't think any less dramatic ways of the CSA winning were likely to alter that basic aspect of their society -- the alternate history that inspired GotS (by Kantor? Catton? It's been years since I've seen it) was pollyanna-ish bullshit. |
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| SladeJack | Jul 10 2008, 10:29 AM Post #51 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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"They've got history books talking about the 20th century that they captured from the Rivington men." Highly classified. "That, plus the social revolution of abandoning slavery" By dribs and drabs, and controversial "could easily put the south on a radically new track" It could. You know, thinking back on it I don't think I've ever read a single Rebels Win AH in which slavery lasts into the modern era. It's like every author feels the need to bring in emancipation, maybe to humanize their Confederate characters, maybe so they're not accused of being nuts fulfilling a fantasy of slavery still being the rule of the land, maybe because they think it's anachronistic, maybe some, all, or none of these reasons--but it always, always happens. I'm not even sure I've ever seen it last to 1900. There's one I read a long, long time ago and I can't remember when it happened, but I do know it was long gone by the time the story ended in 1930. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Makkabee | Jul 10 2008, 11:18 AM Post #52 |
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Count
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Which is balderdash. The generation that fought and bled to preserve slavery -- and make no mistake, that's why they were fighting and they said so -- isn't going to then turn around and give it up. Slavery can't realistically die in the CSA as long as the generation that fought in the war retains power, and they'll hold on to power at least until the turn of the century. Frankly I don't think even the emancipation we saw in How Few Remain would happen -- Longstreet might be able to push an amendment through congress (though I'm not sure even the promise of a full alliane with England and France would get him the 2/3 majorities in both houses he needed -- a much more desperate CSA could barely muster a simple majority for the much less ambitious black soldier bill in 1865), but the deep south states wouldn't ratify it -- four states saying "no" would be enough to kill an amendment, and nothing short of a constitutional amendment would allow the CS government to touch slavery in the states or territories. The only alternate history story I remember seeing where slavery survived into modern times was a film called CSA (not related to that ridiculous novel), and it was meant as a satire of OTL race relations rather than a serious look at an alternate path our history might have taken. |
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| TR1 | Jul 10 2008, 12:04 PM Post #53 |
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Heir Presumptive
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In fairness to HT, the enough in the CS in GotS had foreknowledge that the world saw them on the wrong side of history. I think HT was trying to remove the issue of legal slavery for the future series in HFR, maybe to leave GW a morally ambiguous event rather than an opportunity for the US to free the slaves. That's just spitballing on my part though. Jumping back to the OT--I was reviewing the turtlewiki articles on A Different Flesh, and I would really enjoy a revist to that particular world. |
| "Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman | |
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| Custer | Jul 10 2008, 12:22 PM Post #54 |
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Resident Kamikaze Warrior
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I'd like to see more on Byzantium and its counterparts. More Basil Argyros and Videssos for me. |
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| Makkabee | Jul 11 2008, 07:42 AM Post #55 |
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Count
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I'd also really like to see more stories in the Nantucket Series. Not Dies the Fire stuff, but continuing past 1240 BCE in the original end of the Bronze Age trilogy. |
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| SladeJack | Jul 11 2008, 11:11 AM Post #56 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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There's that one short story in The First Heroes. That anthology wasn't bad, not that bad at all. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Makkabee | Jul 11 2008, 06:05 PM Post #57 |
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Count
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I haven't read that anthology yet. A Nantucket story there? I'll have to check it out. |
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| alchemist | Jul 11 2008, 08:27 PM Post #58 |
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Serf
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I wouldn't mind a GoTs sequel to see how the knowledge of the future affects what happens. |
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| SladeJack | Jul 11 2008, 11:52 PM Post #59 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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"I haven't read that anthology yet. A Nantucket story there? I'll have to check it out." It's out of print these days but a lot of used copies are out there. Some good stories, some bad ones, some middling ones. I skipped one that was like fifty pages and looked really boring. Turtledove paints an ancient Europe where each country is populated by the mythical creatures imagined by the cultures that eventually populated those countries. That was pretty cool, even if the plot was a little weird. Most of the others were straight historical fictions, with a couple time travellers and some fantasies. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Makkabee | Jul 12 2008, 10:31 AM Post #60 |
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Count
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Sounds like fun. Reminsicent of his "thecosystems" in The Case of the Toxic Spelldump and Thessalonica, actually. |
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