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| MWIH pre-release discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2008, 02:34 AM (1,454 Views) | |
| SladeJack | May 17 2008, 02:34 AM Post #1 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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Any interest in discussing Turtledove's next? My biggest question about this book is what effect German resistance will have on the Cold War timeline and particularly on proxy wars like the Chinese Civil War, the Korean War and the First Arab-Israeli War. Will the various antagonists take advantage of the superpowers' distraction to behave even more aggressively, or will the superpowers, presumably all equally committed to the cause of suppressing German resistance and willing to continue their wartime cooperation to that end, decide to use military force to impose a strict adherence to 1945 borders and situations, snapping "Shut up! The grown-ups are busy!" at their client states? Or, to avoid the use of force that may be needed if things get even worse in Germany, do they call for diplomatic solutions as soon as new conflicts arise? That could lead to an endless string of short-lived agreements each similar to the last but each needing to be changed to address a specific grievance of a party involved. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| TR1 | May 17 2008, 02:15 PM Post #2 |
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Heir Presumptive
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In a recent interview, HT indicated that the uprising starts on May 6, 1945. The most immediate concerns for the Allies, the US in particular, will be dealing with the uprising and finishing the Pacific War. So I'm inclined to think that "the superpowers [will] ....decide to use military force to impose a strict adherence to 1945 borders and situations". Given HT's tendency to play with a-bombs, I suspect the US will be dropping the first bomb on Germany, hoping to break the resistence, and then turn to Japan. Beyond that: obviously the nature of the Cold War will change, but so much will depend on how long the resistence lasts. I notice the cover of the book has the picture of a document with the date of April 20, 1948. (I also notice someone added some quick cover copy that actually denotes that the book is an AH). As an aside, I find it interesting that HT had turned his attention to the Cold War quite a bit lately. The most recent books in X-Time Traffic have a POD in the Cold War. And while this is based more in WWII, the obvious changes will be directly impact the Cold War. |
| "Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman | |
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| Custer | May 17 2008, 06:21 PM Post #3 |
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Resident Kamikaze Warrior
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I'm looking forward to this book, actually. When I first heard about it last summer, on the heels of In at the Death, I groaned at the notion of having another book dealing with an insurgency at the end of WWII. |
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| eamonhart | May 17 2008, 09:18 PM Post #4 |
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The Liquor Lord
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As his stand alone books tend to be stronger I think it should be an interesting read. When does the book with the Nazi riding a unicorn on the cover come out? |
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_______________________________________________________ 'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -- Ronald Reagan | |
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| Custer | May 17 2008, 09:20 PM Post #5 |
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Resident Kamikaze Warrior
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Roughly a month from now. |
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| eamonhart | May 17 2008, 09:26 PM Post #6 |
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The Liquor Lord
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What was the deal with that book? I can't remember. H**** P***** joins the Hitler Youth? |
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_______________________________________________________ 'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -- Ronald Reagan | |
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| Custer | May 17 2008, 09:38 PM Post #7 |
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Resident Kamikaze Warrior
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Some German dude chilling during the fall of Berlin somehow ends up in a magical land. |
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| TR1 | May 17 2008, 10:17 PM Post #8 |
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Heir Presumptive
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I think HT is sort of riffing on common criticism of the classic fantasy works from Tolkien etc, that the good guys are always physically attractive (humans, elves) and the bad guys are ugly (orcs), a fact which has led a few creative souls to argue that these works somehow present racist wish fullfillment. In After the Downfall, the shoe is evidentally on the other foot: the beautiful blonds are all bad guys, the inhuman creatures are the good guys. |
| "Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman | |
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| SladeJack | May 20 2008, 03:05 PM Post #9 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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Here's hoping we can get this taking off again. Anyone want to pick specific early Cold War situations whose causes were already underway as of the POD and guess on how they will develop? |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| Custer | May 20 2008, 03:08 PM Post #10 |
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Resident Kamikaze Warrior
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Stalinist assimilation of Poland and other East European states. How would that turn out if the Red Army is busy in Occupied Germany? |
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| TR1 | May 20 2008, 03:30 PM Post #11 |
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Heir Presumptive
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I doubt that the Western Allies will be in any position to moralize about Stalin intent for Poland, but I can see them desperately begging the Polish military to join in the occupation (not sure what the numbers were on the Polish Army at the point, and if they were capable of occupying broken Germany), much to Stalin's annoyance. |
| "Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman | |
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| SladeJack | May 21 2008, 12:28 AM Post #12 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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Poland probably wouldn't have been able to assume a whole occupation zone but they had a decent resistance and resistance movements make excellent counter-insurgents. It would be foolish not to play that card. The Allies might be able to say to everyone who had fallen early in the war "This is your chance to contribute meaningfully to revenge!" That means a lot of Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Yugoslavians et cetera fighting side by side. This annoys the Kremlin, which then can't bitch them around, but they realize there's an emergency and throwing everything available at Germany has to be the priority. Meanwhile in Asia I would expect all the resistance movements and governments-in-exile that OSS and MI5 had been prepping to launch invasions of their home countries when the war ended anyway to be green-lighted. If those succeed, that could mean, among other things, a united Korea. |
| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| eamonhart | May 23 2008, 12:09 PM Post #13 |
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The Liquor Lord
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The Hungarians never fell to the Germans, they fought along side them. |
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_______________________________________________________ 'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -- Ronald Reagan | |
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| SladeJack | May 23 2008, 01:56 PM Post #14 |
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The Grand SladeJack
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That's right, sorry, I should not have added them to the list. Anything substantive to add, as opposed to nitpicks?
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| When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well. | |
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| eamonhart | May 24 2008, 12:13 AM Post #15 |
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The Liquor Lord
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Haha - nothing substantive. Just my good looks and winning personality. And I usually never nitpick on the board. I just didn't want the Hungarians enjoying the fruits of victory. |
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_______________________________________________________ 'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' -- Ronald Reagan | |
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9:15 AM Jul 11