Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Alternate History Lounge. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Britannia's Fist; Tsouras' latest
Topic Started: Jan 31 2008, 12:26 PM (1,132 Views)
Custer
Member Avatar
Resident Kamikaze Warrior
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bopping around Amazon, I discovered this upcoming book by AH author Peter Tsouras (date of release July 31, 2008):

Quote:
 
Britannia's Fist: From Civil War to World War: An Alternate History

Once too often in the War Between the States, Great Britains support for the Confederacy takes it to the brink of war with the Union. The escape of a British-built Confederate ironclad finally ignites the heap of combustible animosities and national interests. When the U.S. Navy seizes it in British waters, the ensuing battle spirals into all-out war. Napoleon III eagerly joins the British and declares war on the United States. Meanwhile, treason uncoils in the North as the anti-war Democrats, known as Copperheads, plot to overthrow the U.S. government and take the Midwest into the Confederacy.

Britannias fist strikes quickly and hard. Along with the Canadians, the British invade New York and Maine, and the Royal Navy strikes at the South Atlantic Blockading Squadron. The clash at Charleston is historys first great naval battle between ironclads. Meanwhile, a French army marches into Texas from Mexico, and the French Navy attacks the Gulf coast. In the Midwest, the Copperheads rise in revolt to liberate Confederate POWs and arm them with stockpiled weapons. Never has the Republic been in such peril.

Britannias Fist brilliantly describes not just a war of stroke and counterstroke but one in which new technologiesrepeating weapons, observation balloons, advances in naval ordnance and armamentbecome vital factors in the struggle of the young country against the Old Worlds empires. For one of the great missed stories of the Civil War was not the advance of military technology but its impediment by incompetence, disorganization, and in some serious cases outright refusal to contemplate anything innovative. This is also a war in which the Union finds a combat multiplier when it organizes historys first national-level intelligence effort. Britannias Fist is the compelling story of powerful historical personalities who come together as the Union goes into total war mobilization in the fight for its life.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TR1
Member Avatar
Heir Presumptive
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yeah, I saw that. "Brtain interferes in ACW" is sure getting used these days.

Thus far, this one sounds like the most plausible, ie, the US is fighting for its life rather than reuniting with the CS or just being totally invincible.
"Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eamonhart
The Liquor Lord
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I've read some of his other works and they tend to be pretty good. I wouldnt be surprised if this turned out to be a good read.
_______________________________________________________
'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.'
-- Ronald Reagan
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Custer
Member Avatar
Resident Kamikaze Warrior
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
TR1
Jan 31 2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah, I saw that.  "Britain interferes in ACW" is sure getting used these days.

Indeed. It's almost as big an AH cliche as Confederate victory and SEALION.

Eamonhart
 
I've read some of his other works and they tend to be pretty good. I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be a good read.

His Dixie Victorious anthology looked good.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bronze Corsair
Member Avatar
Serf
[ * ]
If France is allied to Britain and the Confederates, why does their fleet start attacking the gulf coast?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Custer
Member Avatar
Resident Kamikaze Warrior
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm assuming the "Gulf Coast" bit referred to the Federal blockade and Union-held towns and islands.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Guy from Fiji
Member Avatar
Bullshitter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
As long as it has no resemblance to Harrison's Stars & Stripes trilogy it should be fine.
Sic Temper Molemannis!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TR1
Member Avatar
Heir Presumptive
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Seems to be avoiding that path.
"Nobody's gay for Moleman." - Hans Moleman
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eamonhart
The Liquor Lord
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Peter Tsouras is a far better writer than to fall into HH's traps.
_______________________________________________________
'No arsenal, no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.'
-- Ronald Reagan
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SladeJack
The Grand SladeJack
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The other Tsouras AH I know of is an alternate of Gettysburg where he added five different PODs. I didn't read it but I can't imagine it was any good--way too hard to keep track of what causes what, especially since the first POD might have precluded the later ones from having their lead-up. It looks like there's a lot going on in BF, too, but over a longer story it might be more manageable. I had thought to read it, if not right away then before too long after its release.
When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Makkabee
Count
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Britain, France and the CSA vs. the USA = the USA getting squashed like a bug. The disparity in resources is far too great. Given that scenario, Turtledove's "okay, the USA loses, now let's see what the result of that is" approach is by far the best way to go.

If on the other hand the author has Bismarck say "now's our big chance!" and strike at France along with Italy, anxious to get the French troops out of Lazio, and Russia, still smarting from the Crimean war and sympathetic to Lincoln's abolitionist goals, then things get interesting again. I know a guy working on a novel with a premise very much like that, but don't know how far he's gotten -- last I heard he moved to the west coast and we lost contact.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MapleLeafs4Ever
Landowner
[ *  *  *  * ]
The sub-title of "From Civil War to World War" is suggestive that the war will expand to Europe, perhaps in a way like the one Makk outilned.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SladeJack
The Grand SladeJack
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
"Indeed. It's almost as big an AH cliche as Confederate victory and SEALION."

I agree on SEALION but what's cliche about Confederate victory? It would near the top of just about anybody's list of ways in which to alter American history dramatically (and AH is a mass market entertainment medium first and foremost, so changes must be dramatic) and fundamentally (and I for one see little point to AH that doesn't result in fundamental change--who wants to read about altering a minor point of some small nation's economic policy, resulting in some barely-noticeable shift in some arcane statistic?) That's why there's so much of it: it's an important and enticing AH question. And it makes sense that British intervention would get lot of press. It's the most believable and most plausible route to said Confederate victory. Given who peopled Palmerston's government (and the only reason I don't disparage him is that I don't want to wake up next to Wade Boggs on the floor of Moe's) it's easy to imagine them jumping on a chance to recognize the Rebs. It's damned near as likely as having Thomas Jefferson recognize France's First Republic had the dates of its existence and his administration coincided.

And convincingly having the Rebs win without the British is tough. Really you need either enough shocking victories to ruin Union morale in the opening rounds, or the ability to outlast the Union in an extended war. The former is tough--we absorbed the news of quite a few tremendous coups won by the Rebs in the early days without losing heart altogether. The latter of course is nigh on impossible. Hang-on-till-the-64-election scenarios aren't as easy as people think; delay the fall of Atlanta for a few months and Lincoln might be shown the door, but it can't hang on till March 4, 1865, and while I'm the last person to shield McClellan from accusations of craven cowardice I don't see even him letting the Rebs off the hook altogether with the military situation he would inherit.

Maybe you could have the Union Army stay badly mismanaged till the late fall of '64 so that the front remains a stalemate. But given how high turnover among Union generals who failed to break the stalemate was, having the Union go that long without stumbling upon anyone who was up to the job is pushing it. Will they just happen to pass over Grant and Sherman and Sheridan and Meade and Reynolds and Sedgwick and McPherson and Thomas and Kearny and so on and so forth every single time?

My gut tells me that even if the Rebs won on their own, as long as Lincoln is in he won't concede defeat till an external power forces him to, and that means Britain. So you either use an antebellum POD or one set near the end of a war that went on about as long as the Rebs had any right to expect it to under any circumstances.

And is it really that common a scenario? The only two I can think of other than BF are S&S and 191. The former's not worth thinking about, and with the latter--as we constantly told John Gizzi when he claimed that the fact HT mentioned other countries was Evidence!, they were there to play a supporting role, and the Rebs had pretty much won the war on their own unassisted (not counting all those Enfields and so forth) with Palmerston just adding the final touches. In this case I look forward to a book that deals seriously with a scenario in which the Brits commit combatant forces to a war whose result is still up in the air, and doesn't go down a nonsensical route like the Rebs changing sides right away. If Mak's right and we get Europeans of our own, so much the better. I don't know about Prussia and Italy but I think we'd have an excellent chance with Russia.
When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Makkabee
Count
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
There's also the film C.S.A., that uses the turning point of British and French intervention in 1863 altering the outcome of the war. However the film should be viewed as satire rather than realistic alternate history.

In the 1860s the French occupied a lot of formerly Italian territory -- Nice and Savoy ceded as the price of French intervention against Austria in 1859; Lazio, ruled by the Pope but defended by the French troops who toppled the Roman Republic in 1849; and Corsica, sold to France by Genoa back in the 1740s.* Italian imperialists would also look to North Africa as a place to rebuild the Roman empire, and that means clearing the French out of Tunisia and Algeria.

As for Prussia, a confrontation with France is arguably the best way to unite Gemany. It's what they did OTL. Saying he was doing it to save the freedom-loving USA from the slave-driving CSA and their imperialist French allies is also a good way to swing the still-powerful German liberals to his side. Bismarck's realist enough to not want to try this unless he thinks he has a better than even chance of winning, but with Russia on his side and a needle-gun armed Prussian army facing off against French troops still carrying muzzle-loaders it could happen.

* which leads me to a scenario I really would like to see but hasn't been developed as far as I know. What if Napoleon self-identified as Italian instead of French? His family was once associated with Corsican nationalism. Suppose they had to flee to mainland Italy before the French Revolution, or because the French Revolution collapsed under the combined attack of the European monarchies? Valmy could easily have gone the other way, after all.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SladeJack
The Grand SladeJack
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
"There's also the film C.S.A., that uses the turning point of British and French intervention in 1863 altering the outcome of the war. However the film should be viewed as satire rather than realistic alternate history."

Well as I say it's the most realistic Rebs Win scenario. Just as the most realistic way to have the Continentals lose the Rev War is keeping the French out of it.

"In the 1860s the French occupied a lot of formerly Italian territory -- Nice and Savoy ceded as the price of French intervention against Austria in 1859; Lazio, ruled by the Pope but defended by the French troops who toppled the Roman Republic in 1849; and Corsica, sold to France by Genoa back in the 1740s.* Italian imperialists would also look to North Africa as a place to rebuild the Roman empire, and that means clearing the French out of Tunisia and Algeria.

"As for Prussia, a confrontation with France is arguably the best way to unite Gemany. It's what they did OTL. Saying he was doing it to save the freedom-loving USA from the slave-driving CSA and their imperialist French allies is also a good way to swing the still-powerful German liberals to his side. Bismarck's realist enough to not want to try this unless he thinks he has a better than even chance of winning, but with Russia on his side and a needle-gun armed Prussian army facing off against French troops still carrying muzzle-loaders it could happen."

Oh I don't deny that confronting France would work to both countries' advantage, but neither had had much in the way of dealings with North American powers, would they be used to thinking of European and North American affairs interrelated enough to recognize the opportunity? I should think it depends on how much force France commits to the Americas and how badly that weakens their European armies.
When you wipe your ass, make sure you wipe it really well.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Alternate History Media · Next Topic »
Add Reply