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Britain's Bomb; UK nukes in the Lizard books
Topic Started: Jun 27 2008, 11:10 PM (1,458 Views)
MapleLeafs4Ever
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Custer
Jul 17 2008, 12:01 PM
But why would the US want to share with the UK their nuclear secrets in the first place ITTL?

Not having read the books, I can't say one way or the other but if British scientists still worked on the Manhattan Project in this TL then they would have the necessary knowledge to develop the British bomb fairly quickly. Unless they were not permitted to return to Britain when hostilities ended?
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SladeJack
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When did they arrive at the Manhattan Project? I'm not sure about that one and I can't look it up because I just donated The Making of the Atomic Bomb (which I'm afraid I never read) to the library. I always sort of assumed that they hadn't joined the Manhattan Project, or at least hadn't actually arrived at the U of Chicago, by the time the Lizards landed, and the extreme difficulty of travel in the early stages of the invasion kept them home.

They did have a Canadian physicist appear among the physicists in a number of scenes but that could be HT being sloppy. He was better with that then than he is now, but anyone can make mistakes like that.
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Mr Nelg
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Quote:
 
When did they arrive at the Manhattan Project?


The British were already working on their own atomic bomb project in 1942, code named "Tube Alloys." By mid 1942 that project had moved to Canada to the "Montreal Laboratory" in Quebec.

I do know that in June of 1942, information between the US and Britain stopped for reasons I can't find.

The American's and the British were doing individual research by mid-1942, when the Race arrived. Even in OTL, there were supposed to be British observers on the bombers that dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, however, General Groves wouldn't let them on, and they missed the Hiroshima bomb, and it was only after protests had been lodged that they were allowed to on the planes for the Nagasaki bombings.

So, even in OTL the US was hesitant to allow the British to know everything.
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SladeJack
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The US and UK, and a number of others including Canada, pooled their resources to work on one project, did they not? And in May 1942 the projects were cooperating but had not consolidated. If there was a seperate Anglo-Canadian program, that program failed, which is I guess why the UK had not gone nuclear by the time permanent diplomatic statuses had been doled out. We know not whether the US, Germany, or neither got them over the hump, but we know they did get over the hump long before Japan did, and if Japan could demand and receive a reevaluation of its diplomatic status because of it, Britain should have been able to do so as well.

Unless of course HT threw out the reference to Britain going nuclear in SC and later decided he didn't mean it, the way he did with the reference to Halless 1 being politically unified when the Race showed up or the reference to Sam Carsten not going to Ireland during GWI.
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Mr Nelg
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Unless of course HT threw out the reference to Britain going nuclear in SC and later decided he didn't mean it, the way he did with the reference to Halless 1 being politically unified when the Race showed up or the reference to Sam Carsten not going to Ireland during GWI.


I believe that's the most likely explanation. The one complaint I remember people carrying on about in Colonization was that HT spun up some interesting plot devices in Book 1, completely ignored them in Book 2, and went off on an entirely different tangent in Book 3.

But the biggest question is for those who've read the Colonisation Trilogy is why is this coming up now, when the books have been out since the early 2000's? Or has this been spoken about before?

Let's see you do that kung-fu crap after I disintergrate your legs...
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Custer
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It was based off a recent discussion on AH.com. I decided to ask it here since we have some Lizard fans here that might know about the subject.
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Mr Nelg
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Quote:
 
It was based off a recent discussion on AH.com. I decided to ask it here since we have some Lizard fans here that might know about the subject.


I know that. I'm asking why wasn't that error picked up on before then? Like I asked, 'Or has this been done before?' So, has it?
Let's see you do that kung-fu crap after I disintergrate your legs...
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SladeJack
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"The one complaint I remember people carrying on about in Colonization was that HT spun up some interesting plot devices in Book 1, completely ignored them in Book 2, and went off on an entirely different tangent in Book 3."

Hmm--something to that. I thought though that 1 and 2 meshed together with each other (and with the original tetralogy) pretty well and that 3 (eventually joined by HB) was the one where everything sort of turned upside down.

"But the biggest question is for those who've read the Colonisation Trilogy is why is this coming up now, when the books have been out since the early 2000's? Or has this been spoken about before?"

I noticed the inconsistency right away. I can't remember whether it's been addressed on this board before now.
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Custer
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Mr Nelg
Jul 20 2008, 04:07 AM
Quote:
 
It was based off a recent discussion on AH.com. I decided to ask it here since we have some Lizard fans here that might know about the subject.

I know that. I'm asking why wasn't that error picked up on before then? Like I asked, 'Or has this been done before?' So, has it?

It's probably been picked up and discussed several times over the past 4 years. So what?
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MapleLeafs4Ever
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SladeJack
Jul 20 2008, 01:50 AM
The US and UK, and a number of others including Canada, pooled their resources to work on one project, did they not? And in May 1942 the projects were cooperating but had not consolidated. . .

I did a bit of googling and it looks like there were separate American and Anglo-Canadian programs which, while having limited cooperation, didn't really merge until 1943. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Agreement

From previous posts in this thread, this would be after the POD and may be part of the answer although it does look like another HT inconsistency at work too.
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Mr Nelg
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SladeJack said:

Quote:
 
Hmm--something to that. I thought though that 1 and 2 meshed together with each other (and with the original tetralogy) pretty well and that 3 (eventually joined by HB) was the one where everything sort of turned upside down.


I wouldn't know. I'm just regeriting comments I've read from more than one person. That's the first time I've heard that.

Custer said:

Quote:
 
So what?


Custer, All i asked was,

"If this was picked up on before,"
AND...
"If it wasn't why?"

You answered the question when you replied with "It's probably been picked up and discussed several times over the past 4 years." So why did you add, "So what?" :huh:
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Custer
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Because I did.
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SladeJack
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"From previous posts in this thread, this would be after the POD and may be part of the answer although it does look like another HT inconsistency at work too."

HT has Arthur Compton at the University of Chicago in 1942. I'll add that to the list on my next visit to the Wiki--rare events these days.

Come to think of it, in the Lizard timeline the Anglo-Canadian project should have had a better chance of succeeding--less Lizard interference. Hell, the case could even be made for the Americans packing it up and heading for Montreal to continue work in His Majesty's facilities.

"Because I did."

That's telling him, Cuss! Give 'im hell!
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Mr Nelg
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Quote:
 
Come to think of it, in the Lizard timeline the Anglo-Canadian project should have had a better chance of succeeding--less Lizard interference. Hell, the case could even be made for the Americans packing it up and heading for Montreal to continue work in His Majesty's facilities.


Would've,
Should've,
Didn't.

Quote:
 
That's telling him, Cuss! Give 'im hell!


:P Dang Nabbit All, Sj! This is all part of your AND HT's Anit-Australian Bais, isn't it!!!
How could you do this to me man, after all we've been through.

DAMN IT, I TOOK A BULLET FOR YOU BACK IN NAM!!

WHY!?!?

*Burst into tears.*
Let's see you do that kung-fu crap after I disintergrate your legs...
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Custer
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I win.
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