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| Races and such | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 31 2008, 03:33 PM (814 Views) | |
| Dark Wraith | Jul 31 2008, 10:35 PM Post #16 |
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Slave
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Yeah, now you've done it, Anni. :lol: |
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| Tchar'zanek | Jul 31 2008, 10:52 PM Post #17 |
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This isn't Arda, last time I checked. You guys left that forum behind when you migrated here, so it'll be different. As far as demography not affecting racial choices, it would if certain races are off limits to players. Races like Vampires, Demons, Angels, Shades and stuff of this nature should not be a possible choice, as it undermines the whole point of their powers. If they're playable, and therefore common, then it negates any kind of mystical powers or meanings they may have as a group. In your own original fiction, normal is whatever you determine it to be. In a world like this, where you're collaborating with other people, normal is what everyone agrees upon. You can't just arbitrarily say that humans are different just because you want to play a human character with a certain appearance. That would ruin other peoples characters who have themselves set as humans with a more conventional and normal appearance. As for your point on Angels and Demons, I'm trying to say that they should be rare, for the aforementioned reasons. If the dimensions are close (*), then it takes away all meaning that they could potentially retain. Make them rare and occuring rarely and you gain an interesting device that can be used to make something turn very spiritual or supernatural in the context of a story. Look, I'm not trying to say people can only play certain races. What i'm trying to say is have certain races be the most common and most played, with the rarer races played sparingly, if at all. These rarer races would be the stranger fantasy races (Illithids, Azer, Bugbears, Dragonkin, etc.). This I'm less of a stickler for when compared to demons, and will gladly play alongside something like a Satyr just to see the character interaction that could go there. However, seeing that Satyr, and having his race described as rare, then running into 3 along the same journey kind of negates the whole 'rare' thing. The main point I'm trying to make is that if everyone is unique, nobody is. If everybody is trying to be unusual and strange, then eventually, people will overlap and become very similar. I find it funny that most of the people who are against this idea are those who have the strange and celestial characters. (*) I should make it clear now that I'm against extra-dimensions at all. In the real world, dimensions are a rather new concept, in a medievals ettign they never would have even thought of it. TL:DR - I think Races should be standardized, and supernatural beings should be banned as PCs. EDIT: Wingless, if you hadn't started a thread like this, I'm sure somebody else would have. Things like this need to be discussed. |
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| Wingless | Jul 31 2008, 10:55 PM Post #18 |
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Uh, I dun really want to get involved. But if you take supernatural beings out of the RP, then you've got no fantasy anymore. Real people in a magical world who are unable to take advantage of this magic is stupid. It's like being in a room filled with cake and not being allowed to eat it. >> |
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| Dark Wraith | Jul 31 2008, 10:57 PM Post #19 |
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Wow, banning people from playing certain races? Completely? Talk about stifling creative freedom. That seems very extreme. :\ |
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| Kedros | Jul 31 2008, 10:59 PM Post #20 |
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Bard
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*rolls up his news-paper and starts whacking* T'Char: you can think what-ever you want. It's a free world: and this is a free-form writing forum. Check the banner at the top if you need a reminder. Anyone can write what-ever they want, no matter how mundane, or outrageous. Everyone cool it before I whip some sense into the lot of you! Remember, it's about writing, bloody hell! User your head, stop worrying about rules and guidelines, and write what reads beautifully! If it's a pleasure to read, then it's good! All other politics or complications can go to hell! |
[align=center]![]() Links: Characters Open Topics Misplaced Hope in a Place Unlooked For Is Perhaps Not Misplaced Featuring Ostler, Open but Pls PM Means and Ends of Oath-Keepers Featuring Rilangren, Open but Pls PM Ploughshears to Axes Featuring Ferdibrand Rumble, Open but Pls PM The Windblown Seed Featuring Curin & Riele Archive of Old Characters No Longer In Use [/align] | |
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| Wingless | Jul 31 2008, 11:00 PM Post #21 |
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Woo! Now gimmie mah cake! /no more spam |
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| Cathartic | Jul 31 2008, 11:00 PM Post #22 |
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God, why do I have to be such a slow typer? If you've read Eluthaun's post above, you don't have to bother reading this, because I'm making the same point.
Lord bejesus, I thought Abydos already filtered the players most likely to come up with such characters through the application forum? Anyhow, to me it would seem that the creativity you seem to inspire is the same creativity our lawyers lose to get around the law, but more on that below. More generally, I agree with Aloric that a cliché character does not necessarily make for a cliché storyline.
Yes, obviously I've never seen a major issue (thank God for that), simply because I think that the creator of this forum might not think the OOC hassle of having an official races list overly conducive to the board's purpose. But I'll leave the matter for Rièle herself to answer and stripe it off my personal list.
Generalizing does not make for an effective argument, in my eyes. Even if what you say is true, those average writers obviously enjoy writing their 'same trite crap', and as stated above, cliché characters do not make for cliché stories.
Really? My demon was born in a field full of magical flowers in Rith. Or through a Nerandorian disease, granting normal humans demonic attributes. What I mean is, you seem to put Demons in a rather narrow category. However you want to spin your words, categorizing limits creativity, but posts above me have pointed that out clearly enough.
People do not create characters within boundaries. In fact, they (and I'm one of them) love to touch the boundaries, and then leap over them in an effort to be as un-Mary-Sueish as possible. I do wholeheartedly agree that people should not try to make their character sheet, but their stories unique. I just do not think that a set races list would help any in achieving that goal - it's like saying, "yeah, we want you to be creative, just don't do this... and this... and that..." etcetera Also, I don't get why you're so eager to get a list when people can still create characters that don't conform to the boundaries it sets. Also, how could one possibly have clear criteria as to what new races would be accepted? Apart from a race full of blond-spiky-haired, teal-eyed, tail-growing musculars called Go-koos, I don't see much being refused there.
Considering she has expressed clearly enough that she wants to keep Abydos a small, tight community, I am unsure whether she would jump on the opportunity to delegate part of its OOC mechanics to others. But again, I'm in no way speaking for her, and I admit that I could be readily wrong about this, so point taken until that matter is cleared up.
Creativity that leads to clichés? I'm not sure why we're all praising the 'as much creativity as possible' mindset if that were true. As I stated before, the creation of Mary Sue characters is not stymied in the slightest by the implementation of a set races list. I mean, how would it? You can be damn sure Angels and Demons will be on the list, complete with hybrid subsections, and you can be damn sure people will still create them if they feel like it. It's all in the people. And from what I've seen here at Abydos, very, very few seem likely to be making the characters you're trying to lay to waste with this list idea. In fact, I deem myself one of the most likeliest to do so (Fallen Angels ftfw). And again, that doesn't mean my stories will not be enjoyable to read.
I suppose it's here where I completely disagree with you, which is why I picked it out from your last post (which was put up while I was typing my reply). Character sheets do not define the stories made by the writers that created them. If everyone wants to be unique, let them. If the stories are enjoyable, then who cares whether they were played out by a bunch of 'mundane' humans or a conglomerate of Half-Angels, sedated tieflings, half a halfling and a talking hamburger? |
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| Aloric | Jul 31 2008, 11:02 PM Post #23 |
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Riele has outlined nothing else about her world. Why should races be outlined and forbidden then? This is free-form. We're all contributing to a larger world, but if it's not canon, you don't have to accept it. You choose who you invite into your roleplays. If the half-mutant fallen angel disrupts your continuity, don't invite it. Everyone here has been accepted because they are mature and skilled writers. Let that skill and maturity go where it wants to. |
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| Tchar'zanek | Jul 31 2008, 11:03 PM Post #24 |
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Common Supernatural races =/= Fantasy Look at Tolkien's world of Middle Earth. As far as I know, the only supernatural beings were those under the guidance of the Valar, and maybe Sauron (Don't think in terms of Lord of the Rings for this analogy, think in terms of your average citizen). They were FAR from common, and one was lucky to run into one in their lifetime, let alone several. All I'm trying to get across is that Demons, Celestials, Infernals, or whatever else you can think of that comes from another plane or has it's origins from some sort of hell or something, should not be in as a playable nor a common race. Which means that it should not be playable. EDITS:
When was the last time you checked through some of the characters posted? To Eluthaun, we're discussing something here. I'm not in an authoritative position, so this is just idle debate. The only way you can get something done is by discussing it or doing it yourself. I can't do the latter, so I'm trying to talk about it rationally. |
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| Kedros | Jul 31 2008, 11:06 PM Post #25 |
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Bard
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T'Char: let me sing something into your head. Abydos is not about PLAYABLE this is about writing! And anything you want is WRITEABLE because you can write whatever you want. Okay my sweetie darling? |
[align=center]![]() Links: Characters Open Topics Misplaced Hope in a Place Unlooked For Is Perhaps Not Misplaced Featuring Ostler, Open but Pls PM Means and Ends of Oath-Keepers Featuring Rilangren, Open but Pls PM Ploughshears to Axes Featuring Ferdibrand Rumble, Open but Pls PM The Windblown Seed Featuring Curin & Riele Archive of Old Characters No Longer In Use [/align] | |
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| Dark Wraith | Jul 31 2008, 11:08 PM Post #26 |
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I entirely disagree. This idea seems to be in the opposite of the free and creative atmosphere that this board seems to have. Where's the freedom in being barred from hundreds of races that could spawn interesting characters? This kind of extreme hold over the writer's free reign is uncalled for, seeing as how we're all reasonable people who are only here in the interest of good literature. EDIT: And, as Eluthaun pointed out, now we're back to treating this like a game rather than a free and open forum for collaborative writing. |
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| Tchar'zanek | Jul 31 2008, 11:10 PM Post #27 |
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It's written in a consistent world that we all have to deal with. This discussion is really vital to get opinions across. It technically is a game, Dark Wraith. Something you do for enjoyability and for fun is considered a game. For example, I could consider this debate a game, as right now I'm having a lot of fun arguing my point. |
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| Dark Wraith | Jul 31 2008, 11:16 PM Post #28 |
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I define a hobby as something I do for fun. A "game", to me, is something that ends in a winner and loser, where the objective is to triumph over something or to gain an advantage in some way in order to win. </splitting hairs> :lol: |
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| Cathartic | Jul 31 2008, 11:16 PM Post #29 |
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When was the last time you checked through the stories featuring those characters? There are few to none. How could you possibly be heating up this argument if you don't have any evidence that the quality of this world is marred by what you gathered from a couple of (admittedly not entirely original) character sheets?
Then what's the next discussion about? A consistent pantheon? A final version of the world map? Why don't we just agree to all write a part of a single, consistent novel? Anyhow, I'm not going to argue the point anymore, unless I'm directly addressed. Eluthaun said it, Wraith said it. Let's write, not game. |
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| Tchar'zanek | Jul 31 2008, 11:18 PM Post #30 |
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Indeed. The reason I added that part about a game is because my point has already been made several times, so there's really nothing else I can add. I think, considering it's everyone in this thread versus me, that we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and people will go on making whatever characters they want. Which is too bad, really. Constraints would do wonders for certain people. |
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