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Is there starting to be a huge change in wrestling; cross company promotion/matches???
Topic Started: Mar 8 2008, 12:18 PM (906 Views)
gogoplata
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Look at the reports we've gotten recently.


WWE reporting on TNA and ROH at their website

TNA showing up to the wwe hall of fame......



Boxing has proved that you can have different organizations come together and put on events. The event is always more about the 2 guys than about their managers. The UFC is facing some growing pains in making their fighters exclusive, and other brands are starting to work together EliteXC/Strikeforce/Cage Rage and having fantastic results.

Does this mean that we could actually see WWE/TNA match-ups???

We've seen it before, somewhat, with ECW. Look what happened as a result, fans got super excited, you got to showcase new, awesome talent which helps them by getting exposure and helps you by mixing up your show with something exciting. This could obviously help both companies which are both becoming stagnant at the moment.

This isn't meant to be one of those "dream card" threads, or "how would you book the invasion". From a business standpoint, would you make the move if you were either company? Is it even plausible that this could happen, and under what circumstances?
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carnage_34
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I would do it in a heartbeat if I was TNA, however there is no chance in hell that I would do it if I was the WWE. Not everybody who watches WWE watches TNA, however most people who watch TNA watch WWE. If the E was to do a cross promotion with TNA , from a business stand point it only helps TNA. TNA would get alot of WWE fans who don't normally watch TNA turning into their show just to see what the WWE would do. Plus at some point some TNA talent would have to probably go over some WWE talent which agains does nothing but hurt WWE and help TNA.
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Big Tuna
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The WWE added the Industry News section in order to get more hits to their website and increase their share of the marketplace or something. It was in the Observer last week. Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly no cross-promotion.

It'd be cool yeah, but it's not happening.
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Jackmont
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For TNA it would be fantastic, for the general audience who have knowledge of TNA it would be even better and the ratings whilst TNA "invades" or whatever would probably soar. However, after its all said and done you will have a load of WWE fans switching over to TNA, and who knows if they'd come back after seeing Angle, Christian, Rhyno, etc. on their screens again. But I dunno, anything can really happen these days, and theres a big chance it wouldn't have an impact on the WWE.

Plus if Smackdown moves to a Thursday then it would suffer, if it stays on a friday, only results would tell if damage would be done long term.
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Simon!
Mar 8 2008, 07:05 PM
The WWE added the Industry News section in order to get more hits to their website and increase their share of the marketplace or something. It was in the Observer last week. Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly no cross-promotion.

It'd be cool yeah, but it's not happening.


I got the impression that he was basing the question "Does this mean that we could actually see WWE/TNA match-ups???" based on the fact that boxing does it and that WWE recognizes TNA's existence in the insider section. I don't think that he was implying that the insider section itself held a bigger meaning.

Like you said it would be cool, but it's highly unlikely. Then again who knows what the future holds? The thing is that cross promotion would be problematic in the respect that WWE has some restrictions that TNA doesn't and I'm not sure if Vince would let that change for a long enough period for cross promotion matches to take place within the confines of his company. It does when they're allowed to do indy work, but like I said I'm talking about extended periods.
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Hooch
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The biggest problems with cross promotion is there has to be a winner and a loser. Boxing is real, wrestling isn't; I don't see one company allowing the other to get the win.
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Alabama Dirt Whistle
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The reason that the minor MMA organizations are joining together is because they can't face the UFC alone. In the wrestling business, WWE is the equivalent of the UFC. They're already on top. It wouldn't make sense for them to join with a smaller company. (especially since that company employs many WWE castoffs who aren't the biggest fans of the company).
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Alabama Dirt Whistle
Mar 10 2008, 10:34 PM
It wouldn't make sense for them to join with a smaller company. (especially since that company employs many WWE castoffs who aren't the biggest fans of the company).

Even with WWE being on top they still lack the ability to have match opportunities between certain wrestlers based on them being in different companies. So in that respect it would make sense cause even with WWE on top, it could help make them money.

However, based on what was said about how there are different "styles', a lack of desire for both companies to want their wrestlers to lose, and many other factors, a cross promotion is highly unlikely to ever happen.
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gogoplata
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Wasn't it the same thing when WWE let ECW come in and promote themselves? They were huge, they didn't need to let them, but it helped both companies in the long run (look who runs ECW now). You guys don't think WWE would like to have competition in wrestling right now?

Deals can be worked out to get guys on both shows over, I don't see "Competition/Fake" as a valid argument for this.

UFC is on top.....why didn't they get the Network TV deal first? Why did their heavyweight champion leave? They have problems just like WWE does, with the idea of cross-promotion being a serious solution to a common problem.
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.  You guys don't think WWE would like to have competition in wrestling right now?


They probably prefer to have it without promoting it on air through interaction. Yes they did it with ECW but doing it with TNA now would be more comparable to doing it to WCW. WCW was more of a threat to WWE than TNA is at the moment (for various reasons) but it was still considered the most legit competition just as TNA is considered the most legit at the moment where the sports entertainment form of "wrestling" is concerned. Even with increased competition WWE would want to win of course. Helping TNA might actually get TNA to win at some point. ECW wasn't perceived as ever having a chance to be a threat like that according to Vince who to this day has maintained that in interviews. Therefore cross promotion made more sense for WWE and ECW than WWE/TNA.

Can the same be said for UFC and other promotions? Sure to an extent but it seems like you're only willing to accept the similarities between both situations and gloss over the differences when the differences are big enough to not necessarily make cross promotion a viable option with WWE and TNA.

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I don't see "Competition/Fake" as a valid argument for this. 


WWE could have their version of ECW be like the real one if they wanted to but their philosophies are against it, especially with the form of competition. So it's a pretty likely that they wouldn't be willing to change that style for the sake of competing against the rival. That's less of an issue with the UFC situation. One could argue that exposure enough will please both companies regardless of who wins matches but egos, especially Vince's probably suggest otherwise. There are other reasons why it probably isn't viable with wrestling when it is with UFC. I'm not saying that I'd be against it but looking at the big picture the similarities don't outweigh the differences and reasons why Vince at least would probably be against it.

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UFC is on top.....why didn't they get the Network TV deal first?  Why did their heavyweight champion leave?  They have problems just like WWE does, with the idea of cross-promotion being a serious solution to a common problem.


What works for one thing doesn't necessarily work for the other. I'm not saying that it can't conceivably work one day or that I wouldn't want it to, but realistically speaking the arguments that you don't think are valid and the other arguments probably hold a lot of weight.
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gogoplata
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They probably prefer to have it without promoting it on air through interaction. Yes they did it with ECW but doing it with TNA now would be more comparable to doing it to WCW. WCW was more of a threat to WWE than TNA is at the moment (for various reasons) but it was still considered the most legit competition just as TNA is considered the most legit at the moment where the sports entertainment form of "wrestling" is concerned. Even with increased competition WWE would want to win of course. Helping TNA might actually get TNA to win at some point. ECW wasn't perceived as ever having a chance to be a threat like that according to Vince who to this day has maintained that in interviews. Therefore cross promotion made more sense for WWE and ECW than WWE/TNA.



Win what exactly? If TNA's goal is to completely wipe out the wwe, be the only nationally televised wrestling show in America, and make a billion dollars...then no wwe won't help them. I suppose you can never say never, but in no way have i been under the impression that TNA's goals were set that high. Why do people view the as competition? Is your local diner in competition with McDonalds? I argue that if McDonalds said "hey these guys are good" and the local place said "yeah McDonalds is cool" both sides come out ahead, and you get customers to spend money at both places, maybe even more than they did before.

The goal for BOTH companies is to make money, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. That's not to say they don't enjoy the art and history of the sport, but in the end if it ment they were losing money, the companies would not exist. Both companies could benefit in this from creating excitement, gaining a larger audience, and then, make more money. How is there a loser here?
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carnage_34
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^^^

The problem with that theory is that WWE is not losing money, in fact they are doing quite well. The ratings aren't as high as they've ever been but they are good plus financially speaking they had an outstanding 2007. They would not be gaining any new fans or making any more money if they cross branded with TNA. That's why it only helps TNA and why there is no way I would ever consider doing it if I was the WWE.
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Win what exactly?

When WWE and WCW competed I’m sure that they were glad that the others existed but when two shows are competing for ratings and fans one wants to be higher hence WCW being so thrilled with their long time lead and WWE wanting to win it back. When WWE and WCW were competitors they wanted want to win the nights in the ratings, money, etc. When competing they wanted to be the ones coming out on top in whatever fashion possible.

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Is your local diner in competition with McDonalds?  I argue that if McDonalds said "hey these guys are good" and the local place said "yeah McDonalds is cool" both sides come out ahead, and you get customers to spend money at both places, maybe even more than they did before.

Praising something is one thing, but for your scenario to be fully comparable to WWE/TNA Mcdonalds would have to offer it’s burgers at the competitors place or at a joint institution (like the companies would be doing with cross promotional matches) Additionally, Mcdonalds would have to be willing to cook their burgers a bit differently during cross promotions due to different wrestling styles and philosophies. Also when it comes to WWE vs. TNA (as mentioned multiple times) chances are that someone will win most of the matches and someone will lose. It's hard to say that either company would definitely be in favor of their wrestler losing depending on their status. Going back to your restaurant scenario Mcdonalds and the other place aren't going to determine which food items "are put over more" because they'd want theirs to be. So I see what you're trying to get at but the situations are so different. The more comparable one is the UFC one but again there are enough differences as well to not prove that it's a good idea for WWE and TNA to do it.

Having said that i'm guessing that you may come up with other competition scenarios (I would lol) but like I said when making comparisons there are usually similarities and differences and not just the ones that we're willing to see to support our ideas. Even if you do come up with one or several more comparable things (such as the UFC) it doesn't' automatically make it a viable option for WWE and TNA.

It's not like people only have to go to one restaurant or another or see one show over the other (especially if they are on different nights) but in cases like stores and restaurants competition is almost used to increase sales. In the entertainment world it's often to lower the value of the competition or get rid of the competition, hence why a lot of shows are afraid to go up against highly rated shows like American Idol. Certain late night shows and most nightly news programs stay existent even if the other shows do better but again, those aren't identical situations to wrestling.


Like I said I wouldn’t be against it but you’re acting like you have some sort of fool proof plan despite saying "could"
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Both companies could benefit in this from creating excitement, gaining a larger audience, and then, make more money. How is there a loser here?


One goal of gaining larger audiences is that more people will see the product so yes that’s a plus from cross promotion but what happens if when doing so it’s then concluded that when watching one product or the other that it’s just not that great to them and then they favor one over the other and it ultimately bites one company in the ass. Edit: Carnage touched on that above and I agree with him.

You appear to see only the good and that's admirable but not necessarily realistic. I see the good and the bad. If someone’s actually involved in the decision they’re going to look at both ends since they’re the ones with the risk. I realize that you're not the one involved in the decision but since you're strongly suggesting why t would be good for business, I wonder why you're not looking at it from the business owners perspective. (both sides not just one.)

Again I like your idea in theory but there's a whole other side to the equation.
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McDonald's hates competition. They would love it if you only went to them and disregarded every other place. Same with Walmart. Same with most Windows. Same with many companies. The bottom line is they are trying to make money and competition takes away from that.

Let's just say for arguments sake, however, that both companies were ok with each other like in your scenario, it might even be true as the WWE doesn't see them as a threat or competition at all because of them not garnering anywhere near the same success... however, according to your scenario McDonald's (WWE) is fine with the local establishment (TNA) to continue on because they are not out to kill each other off, but to live at harmony with one another so each other could profit. This is probably true, due to the WWE not feeling like it is real competition right now. However, this is what they are doing already. They are not aggressively trying to take down the other one, they are letting each other still continue to be there, and to make money... both get the added bonus of more people enjoying wrestling. They do not need to cross promote one another to accomplish this goal. Unless a promotion is financially invested in a company, they are not going to promote the other. They will let the other survive as long as it is beneficial for both parties, but other then that they are not going to risk losing any customers (fans) in the process. They still want to be the main thing you think of when you think of food (pro-wrestling), not just one of the choices.
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Competition can also make a company strive harder to make even more money and a better product but I agree that WWE (or TNA ) and any other comparison of businesses would probably love it in some cases if competitors didn't exist as long as not having to strive harder to be the better option still brought about great sales, ratings, or whatever applies to whatever business.
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Mar 11 2008, 05:28 PM
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.  You guys don't think WWE would like to have competition in wrestling right now?


They probably prefer to have it without promoting it on air through interaction. Yes they did it with ECW but doing it with TNA now would be more comparable to doing it to WCW. WCW was more of a threat to WWE than TNA is at the moment (for various reasons) but it was still considered the most legit competition just as TNA is considered the most legit at the moment where the sports entertainment form of "wrestling" is concerned. Even with increased competition WWE would want to win of course. Helping TNA might actually get TNA to win at some point. ECW wasn't perceived as ever having a chance to be a threat like that according to Vince who to this day has maintained that in interviews. Therefore cross promotion made more sense for WWE and ECW than WWE/TNA.


Not only that, but WCW and WWE were very similar. ECW and WWE were not. TNA and WWE are very similar.

Now, what do I mean about similar? Basically, they go after the same group of fans with not too much uniqueness in product. Yes, WCW had the cruiserweight division (one that actually did something) and was slightly more wrestling based. Yes, TNA has the X-Division and is more wrestling based. But these are minimal.

ECW, on the other hand, was far more hardcore. It had blood when WWE hardly did. They swore a lot more. The women were dirtier. The crowds were different. The feel was more indy.

So in the end, when WWE had ECW on the show, it was offering something different and more unique. If WWE did this with RoH, it could work well too. But with TNA, it would fall at the waste.


As for Boxing and MMA. Yes, those leagues have done it, but at what cost? What is the difference between WBC, WBA, WBO, and IBF? Fans don't know. Nor do they care. All people know is the fighters. The WWE is a marketable brand. It is more than just the wrestlers. You water that down, and you do really hurt yourself.
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Cleveland's Finest
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TNA and WWE are very close to being alike.

They are both geared towards a typical entertainment sport fans, not bloody loving fans, or technical lover fans.

WWE is becoming huge though. Ratings aren't showing it, but profits, and notice from around the world for the good things they do work.

And for the wrestling part of the WWE, this year has gone perfect. No tragic events, and the good wrestlers remain stable. I don't count Hardy because he never really was a dependable guy.

But so far, WWE, and I guess TNA, have been on a roll.

Maybe this is the "boom period" that's been awaited.
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Mar 13 2008, 03:24 PM
As for Boxing and MMA. Yes, those leagues have done it, but at what cost? What is the difference between WBC, WBA, WBO, and IBF? Fans don't know. Nor do they care. All people know is the fighters. The WWE is a marketable brand. It is more than just the wrestlers. You water that down, and you do really hurt yourself.

Exactly, and even if there's a chance of WWE not hurting itself in the given scenario there seems to be a greater chance that it would.
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Dr. Strangelove
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I think the idea sounds good in theory, but there are a lot of complications that go with it.

What makes pro wrestling different from MMA or boxing is that politics do play a role in who wins and who loses (some people would claim that it's the same in MMA and boxing, but that's another discussion for another time). In the case where two wrestling promotions get together, it is likely that the bigger and stronger company will win out more. Joint efforts only works when it mutually benefits both companies, and I don't see both the WWE and TNA benefit equally from this. It'd be more or less like the WCW Invasion where the stronger company (WWE) won out and the win/loss scenario became one-sided. TNA isn't that desperate yet that they need to tarnish their stars for the sake of more exposure.
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