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Topic Started: December 14, 2014, 10:36 pm (5,093 Views)
JustinVuong
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Before your country can officially take part in the Altverse community, you must first go through the application process. Before you apply, make sure to read the Rules and the official page. In addition, you must provide a link to the main article of the country you plan to be using. Although strongly encouraged but not required, the article should be of decent length that provides sufficient information about the country. Be prepared to make the necessary changes to your country before it can be deemed a part of Altverse. Under no circumstance may you add your nation, claim your nation is part of, or otherwise insert information that may give the impression that your country is in any shape or form connected to Altverse and/or its material until you have been given explicit approval from the community consensus/moderator.

Code:
 
[center][b]Your Country Name[/b][/center]
[list]
[*][b][url=http://www.conworld.wikia.com/wiki/Your_Country_Name]Link[/url][/b]
[*][b]Real World Countries and Land Claimed[/b]:
[*][b]Why you want to join[/b]:
[*][b]Have you read everything concerning Altverse?[/b]: (Y/N)
[*][b]Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?[/b]: (Y/N)
[*][b]Other[/b]: Your additional comments here.
[/list]


Example
Kingdom of Sierra

  • Link
  • Real World Countries and Land Claimed: California, Nevada, Arizona, Baja California, Baja California Sur, Sonora, Hawaiian Islands, American Samoa, Easter Island, Kiribati
  • Why you want to join: I really enjoy collaborating with others and I want to have fun.
  • Have you read everything concerning Altverse?: Y
  • Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?: Y
  • Other: This is just an example but I'd like to point out that you can also provide links to other important pages related to your country to enhance understanding. Links to the government page, flags, or military are great.
Edited by JustinVuong, January 3, 2015, 6:49 pm.
| Kingdom of Sierra (main) | Mexican Social Republic | Great Korean Empire | Republic of Vietnam |
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Dev271
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-Well if an Islamist group kills Gandhi you can think what would have happened to him, if us fools can kill Sikhs on a mass scale just for killing Indira Gandhi then there can be a mass genocide of some sort, there is still violence against muslim communities, and I made it clear that there will be violence on a huge scale so either they left or died trying to leave.
-I only wanted to become an America ally because Russia is more slanted towards Russia. By this time India is going to be able to produce its own weapons and stuff. Secondly I dont want India to become a socialist country, it costed too much.
Didnt I mention this earlier, the Soviets imprisoning Bose is the truth, not a made up story. He comes back, his allies are beaten up, he becomes a capitalist, he was imprisoned by the soviets and he only went there for help, definitely not going to choose Soviet Union. Secondly India still imported weapons from Russia and increased after 1991. The 4 carriers of my navy are Russian.
-
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Zabuza825

Dev271
March 24, 2015, 3:37 am
Didnt I mention this earlier, the Soviets imprisoning Bose is the truth, not a made up story. He comes back, his allies are beaten up, he becomes a capitalist, he was imprisoned by the soviets and he only went there for help, definitely not going to choose Soviet Union. Secondly India still imported weapons from Russia and increased after 1991. The 4 carriers of my navy are Russian.
Okay, you are getting into some serious conspiracy-theory stuff here.

Mainsteam history takes the stance that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose died in a plane crash on August 18th, 1945. He was on a plane at the time. The plane was taking off when the passengers heard what sounded like something falling out of the plane. Mechanics on the ground saw something fall out of the plane. This was part of one of the engines, more specifically the portside propeller. The plane then veered heavily to the right until it went into an uncontrollable spiral and crashed. Bose was not the only one to die in this crash, Lieutenant-General Tsunamasa Shidei died in it as well. Tsunamasa was killed by the crash instantly. Bose on the other hand survived the initial crash, but was killed by the subsequent fire.

As such, mainstream history takes the stance that Bose was killed in the plane crash on August 18th, 1945.

This is the mainstream historical interpretation, and you are stating that this is false. You seem to be a believer in the conspiracy theory that Bose did not in fact die there, but survived and was somehow shipped off to the USSR and then subsequently made it back to India.

Now I wouldn't complain if your initial statement was "I'm changing history so that he didn't die", but you are saying that you are not changing history. That is where this new issue with me arises.

Wikipedia says that he died of the plane crash in 1945 (see here). However, since Wikipedia is nortoriously unreliable I actually did some investigating on their sources. Their source is a Harvard University publication titled "Forgotten Wars: Freedom and Revolution in Southeast Asia". If you have a .mobi file reader (if you use Windows might I recommend Sumatra PDF) on you, you can go ahead and "borrow" it here (clicky link). On that specific .mobi file I found it on under the section "1: Interregnum", under the subsection "The Last Journey of Subjas Chandra Bose". Not 100% sure about this because of the way the file is layed out, but I think it's on the 4th or 5th paragraph.

I have consulted numerous sources. Sadly, information from reliable sources on Subhas Chandra Bose's death is somewhat hard to find (though I'm not surprised, he wasn't a big deal in Western history). However, the few reliable sources I did come along all maintain that Subhas Chandra Bose died due to injuries sustained from a plane crash on August 18th, 1945.

My sources include the Encyclopaedia Britannica:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/74637/Subhas-Chandra-Bose

an article available on the University of California in Los Angeles website which cites a publication by Columbia University (found it literally on the first sentence):
https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/British/saga%20of%20subhas%20bose.pdf

yet another scholarly article available on the Harvard University website (see page 11 for the exact passage):
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/levitsky/files/varshney.pdf

Yes, all of these mention his death in one sentence or paragraph. However, both of the above are reliable sources. You are directly contravening them.

By comparison however, all of the sources regarding the idea that Bose survived (of which I found many) I found were Indian websites that seemed to all have their own political motivations, and as such I hardly regard these as as reliable as what ivy-league universities such as Harvard or Columbia University say.

It's one thing if you're changing history, but in this case you are trying to pass off a conspiracy theory as IRL historic fact.

Furthermore, from my understanding Bose wasn't a leftist, at least not as leftist as Gandhi, as he came into conflict with Gandhi several times during the course of his life.
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Dog of War
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Dev271
March 24, 2015, 3:37 am
-Well if an Islamist group kills Gandhi you can think what would have happened to him, if us fools can kill Sikhs on a mass scale just for killing Indira Gandhi then there can be a mass genocide of some sort, there is still violence against muslim communities, and I made it clear that there will be violence on a huge scale so either they left or died trying to leave.
-I only wanted to become an America ally because Russia is more slanted towards Russia. By this time India is going to be able to produce its own weapons and stuff. Secondly I dont want India to become a socialist country, it costed too much.
Didnt I mention this earlier, the Soviets imprisoning Bose is the truth, not a made up story. He comes back, his allies are beaten up, he becomes a capitalist, he was imprisoned by the soviets and he only went there for help, definitely not going to choose Soviet Union. Secondly India still imported weapons from Russia and increased after 1991. The 4 carriers of my navy are Russian.
-
America has always served American interests. Russia and the former USSR also serve their own interests. Cold War history shows us that both superpowers treated nations pretty badly and supported nasty regimes that opposed the other. Although America liked to promote democracy among some of its mainstream allies such as NATO countries and Japan and South Korea its actions in the Middle East and Latin America prove that American interests were placed before the people's interest. The USSR was the same, just more obvious about it. The USSR also would not give India weapons if it was in an open alliance with the US. Modern Russia would be similarly hesitant.

Not having India as socialist is fine, but I doubt it would so readily ally with the US and the west seeing as it would seem colonialist. A big part of Indian nationalism comes from throwing off the chains of imperialism and an instant alliance with the west would contradict that. Most post-colonial nations that weren't essentially puppets to the west or were traditional monarchies (or both) tried to implement some form of socialism, although some like Sri Lanka quickly abandoned it after it was deemed costly. Despite this the founding fathers of nations are rarely vilified even if their successors change their political philosophy - for example in Turkey over the years the government's secularism has begun to wane, but Atttaturk (a hardcore secularist) is still celebrated in an effective cult of personality. I doubt Nehru would be hated in his lifetime, although the government he established may quickly abandon his socialist principles.

As for the Muslims - there were more of them then Sikhs. The genocide would be more comparable to the Rwandan one after the plane carrying the Hutu president crashed and the Hutu government blamed the Tutsis, who were subsequently killed in mass droves by Hutu militants (around 800,000 people died - more in a few months then those killed under Saddam Hussein). A genocide against Muslims in India would result in a similar thing, and would be a permanent black mark on India's record. They would have to pay reparations to Pakistan at one point or refuse the genocide took place which would worsen relations.

If the government was less socialist early on I doubt it would be very centralised, meaning the build up of a large military and a strong government would be much harder, seeing as India already is pretty decentralised as a government. You have also failed to address my points regarding the Indo-Pakistani relationship, the ethnic divides within the nation, and my concerns about how you would roleplay.

Although Zab summed up the point on Bosse excellently, I would like to state that from the little I know of Bosse its unlikely he would turn to the USA, as he was an anti imperialist and the US had (still has in fact) a special relationship with the United Kingdom. I could also point that that certain leaders in Cold War have opposed communism and the US and sought to have their country be independent from either side (Ruhollah Khomeini is an excellent example of this) and have gone into the middle ground between socialism and capitalism.
Edited by Dog of War, March 24, 2015, 8:39 pm.
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Dev271
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Zabuza825
March 24, 2015, 7:05 am
Dev271
March 24, 2015, 3:37 am
Didnt I mention this earlier, the Soviets imprisoning Bose is the truth, not a made up story. He comes back, his allies are beaten up, he becomes a capitalist, he was imprisoned by the soviets and he only went there for help, definitely not going to choose Soviet Union. Secondly India still imported weapons from Russia and increased after 1991. The 4 carriers of my navy are Russian.
Okay, you are getting into some serious conspiracy-theory stuff here.

Mainsteam history takes the stance that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose died in a plane crash on August 18th, 1945. He was on a plane at the time. The plane was taking off when the passengers heard what sounded like something falling out of the plane. Mechanics on the ground saw something fall out of the plane. This was part of one of the engines, more specifically the portside propeller. The plane then veered heavily to the right until it went into an uncontrollable spiral and crashed. Bose was not the only one to die in this crash, Lieutenant-General Tsunamasa Shidei died in it as well. Tsunamasa was killed by the crash instantly. Bose on the other hand survived the initial crash, but was killed by the subsequent fire.

As such, mainstream history takes the stance that Bose was killed in the plane crash on August 18th, 1945.

This is the mainstream historical interpretation, and you are stating that this is false. You seem to be a believer in the conspiracy theory that Bose did not in fact die there, but survived and was somehow shipped off to the USSR and then subsequently made it back to India.

Now I wouldn't complain if your initial statement was "I'm changing history so that he didn't die", but you are saying that you are not changing history. That is where this new issue with me arises.

Wikipedia says that he died of the plane crash in 1945 (see here). However, since Wikipedia is nortoriously unreliable I actually did some investigating on their sources. Their source is a Harvard University publication titled "Forgotten Wars: Freedom and Revolution in Southeast Asia". If you have a .mobi file reader (if you use Windows might I recommend Sumatra PDF) on you, you can go ahead and "borrow" it here (clicky link). On that specific .mobi file I found it on under the section "1: Interregnum", under the subsection "The Last Journey of Subjas Chandra Bose". Not 100% sure about this because of the way the file is layed out, but I think it's on the 4th or 5th paragraph.

I have consulted numerous sources. Sadly, information from reliable sources on Subhas Chandra Bose's death is somewhat hard to find (though I'm not surprised, he wasn't a big deal in Western history). However, the few reliable sources I did come along all maintain that Subhas Chandra Bose died due to injuries sustained from a plane crash on August 18th, 1945.

My sources include the Encyclopaedia Britannica:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/74637/Subhas-Chandra-Bose

an article available on the University of California in Los Angeles website which cites a publication by Columbia University (found it literally on the first sentence):
https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/British/saga%20of%20subhas%20bose.pdf

yet another scholarly article available on the Harvard University website (see page 11 for the exact passage):
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/levitsky/files/varshney.pdf

Yes, all of these mention his death in one sentence or paragraph. However, both of the above are reliable sources. You are directly contravening them.

By comparison however, all of the sources regarding the idea that Bose survived (of which I found many) I found were Indian websites that seemed to all have their own political motivations, and as such I hardly regard these as as reliable as what ivy-league universities such as Harvard or Columbia University say.

It's one thing if you're changing history, but in this case you are trying to pass off a conspiracy theory as IRL historic fact.

Furthermore, from my understanding Bose wasn't a leftist, at least not as leftist as Gandhi, as he came into conflict with Gandhi several times during the course of his life.
I dont believe my friend, in november or october last year the government released 2 out of 21 files which were about his disappearance, these stated that after 1945 Bose went to Manchuria to take help from Soviet Union for India, but was captured by Stalin and he got him executed in 1953. They refused to release all the files because then these would worsen foreign relations.
Now, you come to my village and see what urbanization he has done, there were roads then right they are being laid now, electricity lines are beng laid now. He made the base for higher education and did nothing for basic education. Dont post anything about this I am going to do it then, my far cry 4 has come so.
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Zabuza825

Dev271
March 25, 2015, 12:17 am
I dont believe my friend, in november or october last year the government released 2 out of 21 files which were about his disappearance, these stated that after 1945 Bose went to Manchuria to take help from Soviet Union for India, but was captured by Stalin and he got him executed in 1953. They refused to release all the files because then these would worsen foreign relations.
Now, you come to my village and see what urbanization he has done, there were roads then right they are being laid now, electricity lines are beng laid now. He made the base for higher education and did nothing for basic education. Dont post anything about this I am going to do it then, my far cry 4 has come so.
Great, so you say the government released files saying that he was alive.

Which files, from which government, that can be viewed where?

Until I see these files, it's your word against the word of many reliable sources, including several ivy league universities, which say that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose died on August 18th, 1945 due to injuries sustained during a plane crash in Taiwan.
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Dev271
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http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=160173
see, I believed in the same thing before I heard and read this.
I am going to make some major changes.
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Zabuza825

Dev271
March 26, 2015, 2:52 am
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=160173
see, I believed in the same thing before I heard and read this.
I am going to make some major changes.
I have read through the link you provided, and all the articles that the forum topic you linked to sent me to. I've read through all of it, and I see no evidence pointing to the conclusion that Subhas Chandra Bose faked his death in Taiwan.

If you would like, in my next post I could go into a paragraph-by-paragraph analysis of the articles linked in that forum post you linked to explaining why I say this, but I'll summarize the gist of it in the following paragraph.

All of the articles are about Indians demanding that the classified files on Subhas Chandra Bose be released to the public. Not one of them states that the files prove the theory that Bose did not die on Taiwan. It does state that the Indian government released 2 of the many, many classified files on Bose, but it does not state what the content of those files are. If the files did prove the theory that Bose did not die on Taiwan, then I'm sure it would have been mentioned, but it's not. Instead we get the BJP leader stating that the remaining files that are classified will "unravel the mystery" and thus demands it's release. They do NOT state that there is evidence in favor of the idea that Bose did not die, in fact they are about people attempting to get evidence about it.
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Bowwow
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JUST DO IT™
So if there's no objections to me taking Israel, I'm gonna go ahead and create relevant RP threads.
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BIPU
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Hi everybody,

My name is Beni and I'm an old conworld member. I have been involved in some moments of FW and even I tried to start my own Project in the past. I see here some users from that days so it is possible that some of them could remember me. Euskadi, Baltic Union, DDR and Soviet Russia are some of my old nations.

I have read about AltVerse and I would like to try to join your community and participate in its development with my work. I'd like to know if the map with the playing nations at the Alt Verse wiki page is updated in order to choose a nation to play with. Anyway, and with the idea of start roleplaying as soon as possible, I would try to use some of my old work adapted to the Alt Verse history and geopolitical situation.

Please, let me know your opinions and suggestions.

BIPU
Si vis pacen, para bellum.
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Dog of War
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BIPU
March 26, 2015, 11:44 am
Hi everybody,

My name is Beni and I'm an old conworld member. I have been involved in some moments of FW and even I tried to start my own Project in the past. I see here some users from that days so it is possible that some of them could remember me. Euskadi, Baltic Union, DDR and Soviet Russia are some of my old nations.

I have read about AltVerse and I would like to try to join your community and participate in its development with my work. I'd like to know if the map with the playing nations at the Alt Verse wiki page is updated in order to choose a nation to play with. Anyway, and with the idea of start roleplaying as soon as possible, I would try to use some of my old work adapted to the Alt Verse history and geopolitical situation.

Please, let me know your opinions and suggestions.

BIPU
The map isn't updated - I'll have to speak with some of the other members before creating a new one. Where though by the way would you ideally want to roleplay? Looking at your nations, most are European and most of Europe is up for grabs to be honest (with the exception of Great Britain, bits of Italy and Ukraine, Turkey, Greece, Greenland and the Baltic states)
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