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Topic Started: December 14, 2014, 10:36 pm (5,105 Views)
JustinVuong
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Before your country can officially take part in the Altverse community, you must first go through the application process. Before you apply, make sure to read the Rules and the official page. In addition, you must provide a link to the main article of the country you plan to be using. Although strongly encouraged but not required, the article should be of decent length that provides sufficient information about the country. Be prepared to make the necessary changes to your country before it can be deemed a part of Altverse. Under no circumstance may you add your nation, claim your nation is part of, or otherwise insert information that may give the impression that your country is in any shape or form connected to Altverse and/or its material until you have been given explicit approval from the community consensus/moderator.

Code:
 
[center][b]Your Country Name[/b][/center]
[list]
[*][b][url=http://www.conworld.wikia.com/wiki/Your_Country_Name]Link[/url][/b]
[*][b]Real World Countries and Land Claimed[/b]:
[*][b]Why you want to join[/b]:
[*][b]Have you read everything concerning Altverse?[/b]: (Y/N)
[*][b]Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?[/b]: (Y/N)
[*][b]Other[/b]: Your additional comments here.
[/list]


Example
Kingdom of Sierra

  • Link
  • Real World Countries and Land Claimed: California, Nevada, Arizona, Baja California, Baja California Sur, Sonora, Hawaiian Islands, American Samoa, Easter Island, Kiribati
  • Why you want to join: I really enjoy collaborating with others and I want to have fun.
  • Have you read everything concerning Altverse?: Y
  • Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?: Y
  • Other: This is just an example but I'd like to point out that you can also provide links to other important pages related to your country to enhance understanding. Links to the government page, flags, or military are great.
Edited by JustinVuong, January 3, 2015, 6:49 pm.
| Kingdom of Sierra (main) | Mexican Social Republic | Great Korean Empire | Republic of Vietnam |
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Chei99

Morochan People's Republic

  • Link
  • Real World Countries and Land Claimed: parts of Southern Ukraine, parts of Eastern Hungary ,small portion of Romania
  • Why you want to join: To experience conworld geopolitics
  • Have you read everything concerning Altverse?:Yes
  • Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?: Yes
  • Other: Nothing
Edited by Chei99, January 6, 2015, 6:13 pm.
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Dev271
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You are right so now Germany gets Independent in 1968, AND produces its own nukes, supported by India, Pakistan(NPT non signatories)
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JustinVuong
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Chei99
January 6, 2015, 4:38 pm
Morochan People's Republic

  • Link
  • Real World Countries and Land Claimed: parts of Southern Ukraine, parts of Eastern Hungary ,small portion of Romania
  • Why you want to join: To experience conworld geopolitics
  • Have you read everything concerning Altverse?:Yes
  • Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?: Yes
  • Other: Nothing
I support this country although I would like to see more on the nation's history to see how it came to be.
| Kingdom of Sierra (main) | Mexican Social Republic | Great Korean Empire | Republic of Vietnam |
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JustinVuong
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For Germany, I have the same concerns as Dog of War but if you roleplay Germany as is in real life, then that would be a much better alternative to the current one (which can produce its own nuclear weapons as you stated). Otherwise, a nuclear Germany would change much of history and raise some problems.
| Kingdom of Sierra (main) | Mexican Social Republic | Great Korean Empire | Republic of Vietnam |
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Dev271
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What about the nordreich union, it has germany as its part.
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Zabuza825

Dog of War
January 6, 2015, 12:09 pm
I already said no on the main page for several reasons. Firstly the fall of the Berlin Wall really was a physical symbol of the fall of communism in Europe, which could only have happened with Gorbachev advocating democracy. That and the East German government was the most efficient of all the Eastern Bloc with stable economics, the best secret police ever and a regime with a very tight grip. The USSR was very very keen to keep hold of East Germany hence why loyal Pro-Soviet politicians like Erich Honecker held power, and subsequently lost power when Gorbachev came in.

Also one of the key terms the allies formulated after WWII was to never under any circumstances give Germany nuclear weapons. The same with Japan, but Germany especially as it had already "caused" two world wars. The USSR would never arm East Germany and most of Europe would refuse to arm West Germany including the UK and France. In fact another reason why the East Germany was kept as many who lived there were persecuted in the Nazi days for being too left wing. Defence would not be an issue in any case - all of NATO's nuclear weapons were capable of reaching the USSR and Eastern Europe, and the USSR's were capable of reaching West Germany, so neither would have any cause to arm the Germans. If Germany starting arming itself with nukes - well, it would be another Cuban missile crisis.

But these issues can be easily fixed of course - the Berlin Wall could fall in 1989 as it did irl and Germany could remove its nukes. However the main reason for objection is that large amounts of text are copy and pasted from Wikipedia. Now I often copy from Wikipedia but I paraphrase the information so it is more "my own work". The copy and pasting either shows laziness on the authors part or a lack of understanding of the content. The other main reason is "Germany is a European superpower" - I can tell you now no European nation nor America nor the USSR/Russia would allow this. Ever. At the moment in Altverse we are striving to keep the status quo of America being the single Superpower. There are major players like Sierra, Britannia, Russia and China but these nations are great/major powers, not superpowers.
To address some of Dog of War's concerns.

First off - the Berlin Wall thing. Yeah, I seem to have missed that. That would need to be changed.

Secondly - the never give Germany nuclear weapons thing? BULLSHIT. I don't mean that what you're saying is bullshit, I mean the whole arrangement made that Germany would never get nuclear weapons turned out to be bullshit. It is that way on paper, it has just been violated by Germany with the approval from the US. How? Well Germany is currently a NATO nuclear sharing state. Meaning that it has the right to use US nuclear weapons stationed in Germany in the event of war. Until war breaks out nuclear weapons are to be held and managed by US forces stationed in Germany, but when war breaks out they are to be handed to the German military and they can then use those nuclear weapons in war. There are many nations that believe this arrangement violates the laws set in place that forbid Germany from possessing nuclear weapons. As such, I don't see it as being unrealistic for Germany to get nuclear weapons, PROVIDED that Germany get US approval and support for it beforehand (as unless the US approves it, there's no way it will fly). As much as I don't want a nation that has nuclear weapons - it seems that every nation that the US gave an "OK" to get nuclear weapons got those nuclear weapons one way or another (including Germany, in this NATO nuclear sharing thing), so as long as the US by some stretch backs that plan I don't see it being unreasonable - even if it means violating the Treaty of Brussels (I'm assuming that's the agreement you're referring too).

That's another thing - German military rearmament was pretty much pushed by all allied nations with the exception of France following World War 2 and the outbreak of the Cold War. Sure, at first the allies pursued a policy of trying to turn Germany into an agricultural nation (something they quickly realized wouldn't be possible unless they killed off 25-30 million Germans). Then, when the Cold War started heating up, all nations from both sides started having their respective Germany's rearm. East Germany secretly started rearming (the formation of the Nationale Volksarmee was precedded by years of secret preparation ), and West Germany started rearming in the 1950's. These rearming were in direct response to the Cold War, as it was believed that in the event of allout war a Germany that can defend itself would contribute more to the war effort.

That said, there was one nation that didn't want Germany to rearm to the end, and that is France. So regardless of what other kinds of rearming is done, nuclear or not, France would have to throw a bitchfit otherwise things won't really be realistic.

Finally, Germany being a superpower thing - well, no nation ever really "allows" a nation to become a superpower, at least never intentionally. Did the US and Russia intend for each other to be superpowers after WW2? Maybe they wanted themselves to become a superpower, but I doubt they intended for the other to become one.

That said, the whole "German superpower" thing completely ignores the massive amount of rebuilding Germany had to do post-war. They practically had to rebuild some cities from the ground up - that would have (and indeed did) take a huge toll on the German economy. I would think that alone would prevent it from becoming a superpower. Now, right now Germany is arguably a "great power" if you will, but it ain't a superpower.
Edited by Zabuza825, January 8, 2015, 6:47 am.
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Dog of War
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Zabuza825
January 8, 2015, 6:32 am
Dog of War
January 6, 2015, 12:09 pm
I already said no on the main page for several reasons. Firstly the fall of the Berlin Wall really was a physical symbol of the fall of communism in Europe, which could only have happened with Gorbachev advocating democracy. That and the East German government was the most efficient of all the Eastern Bloc with stable economics, the best secret police ever and a regime with a very tight grip. The USSR was very very keen to keep hold of East Germany hence why loyal Pro-Soviet politicians like Erich Honecker held power, and subsequently lost power when Gorbachev came in.

Also one of the key terms the allies formulated after WWII was to never under any circumstances give Germany nuclear weapons. The same with Japan, but Germany especially as it had already "caused" two world wars. The USSR would never arm East Germany and most of Europe would refuse to arm West Germany including the UK and France. In fact another reason why the East Germany was kept as many who lived there were persecuted in the Nazi days for being too left wing. Defence would not be an issue in any case - all of NATO's nuclear weapons were capable of reaching the USSR and Eastern Europe, and the USSR's were capable of reaching West Germany, so neither would have any cause to arm the Germans. If Germany starting arming itself with nukes - well, it would be another Cuban missile crisis.

But these issues can be easily fixed of course - the Berlin Wall could fall in 1989 as it did irl and Germany could remove its nukes. However the main reason for objection is that large amounts of text are copy and pasted from Wikipedia. Now I often copy from Wikipedia but I paraphrase the information so it is more "my own work". The copy and pasting either shows laziness on the authors part or a lack of understanding of the content. The other main reason is "Germany is a European superpower" - I can tell you now no European nation nor America nor the USSR/Russia would allow this. Ever. At the moment in Altverse we are striving to keep the status quo of America being the single Superpower. There are major players like Sierra, Britannia, Russia and China but these nations are great/major powers, not superpowers.
To address some of Dog of War's concerns.

First off - the Berlin Wall thing. Yeah, I seem to have missed that. That would need to be changed.

Secondly - the never give Germany nuclear weapons thing? BULLSHIT. I don't mean that what you're saying is bullshit, I mean the whole arrangement made that Germany would never get nuclear weapons turned out to be bullshit. It is that way on paper, it has just been violated by Germany with the approval from the US. How? Well Germany is currently a NATO nuclear sharing state. Meaning that it has the right to use US nuclear weapons stationed in Germany in the event of war. Until war breaks out nuclear weapons are to be held and managed by US forces stationed in Germany, but when war breaks out they are to be handed to the German military and they can then use those nuclear weapons in war. There are many nations that believe this arrangement violates the laws set in place that forbid Germany from possessing nuclear weapons. As such, I don't see it as being unrealistic for Germany to get nuclear weapons, PROVIDED that Germany get US approval and support for it beforehand (as unless the US approves it, there's no way it will fly). As much as I don't want a nation that has nuclear weapons - it seems that every nation that the US gave an "OK" to get nuclear weapons got those nuclear weapons one way or another (including Germany, in this NATO nuclear sharing thing), so as long as the US by some stretch backs that plan I don't see it being unreasonable - even if it means violating the Treaty of Brussels (I'm assuming that's the agreement you're referring too).

That's another thing - German military rearmament was pretty much pushed by all allied nations with the exception of France following World War 2 and the outbreak of the Cold War. Sure, at first the allies pursued a policy of trying to turn Germany into an agricultural nation (something they quickly realized wouldn't be possible unless they killed off 25-30 million Germans). Then, when the Cold War started heating up, all nations from both sides started having their respective Germany's rearm. East Germany secretly started rearming (the formation of the Nationale Volksarmee was precedded by years of secret preparation ), and West Germany started rearming in the 1950's. These rearming were in direct response to the Cold War, as it was believed that in the event of allout war a Germany that can defend itself would contribute more to the war effort.

That said, there was one nation that didn't want Germany to rearm to the end, and that is France. So regardless of what other kinds of rearming is done, nuclear or not, France would have to throw a bitchfit otherwise things won't really be realistic.

Finally, Germany being a superpower thing - well, no nation ever really "allows" a nation to become a superpower, at least never intentionally. Did the US and Russia intend for each other to be superpowers after WW2? Maybe they wanted themselves to become a superpower, but I doubt they intended for the other to become one.

That said, the whole "German superpower" thing completely ignores the massive amount of rebuilding Germany had to do post-war. They practically had to rebuild some cities from the ground up - that would have (and indeed did) take a huge toll on the German economy. I would think that alone would prevent it from becoming a superpower. Now, right now Germany is arguably a "great power" if you will, but it ain't a superpower.
Ah, well, my German history is sketchy. The super power thing should read as "the US would never allow a country in their sphere of influence to gain enough power to actively challenge them." The USSR was never in the US's sphere, and neither was China.

As for the nuclear weapons - well my knowledge is not up to scratch, and I apologise for that (although yes the treaty of Brussels is what I was referencing when I said they couldn't). That said Germany would be unlikely to manufacture nuclear weapons unless they were in immediate danger from a major power. The only ones who have nukes are those of UNSC, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea. However the reason why they do is because they are in immediate danger from their enemies - India and Pakistan hate each other and fought several wars against each other, and Israel - well, do I need to explain? Also each of those nations unlike NATO and Warsaw pact members were not part of a military organisation that would allow them to share nukes meaning they are more on their own. There's North Korea as well, but North Korea's capabilities are poor on a global scale and would be vastly outmatched by the US. South Africa used to have nukes for similar reasons to Israel.

Germany is in no situation where they would need to manufacture nukes immediately (as Germany is a member of NATO and Russia is the only one who would realistically invade). While you could argue that East Germany was a dangerous neighbour the Soviets were careful to make sure their allies in East Europe were of no threat to them, so they would only give them Soviet nukes provided by the Warsaw pact.

The fall of communism couldn't happen in 1968 as a Gorbechev like politician wasn't in power. If we do then the fall of communism woud happen in 1968 and the whole timeline would change.
Edited by Dog of War, January 8, 2015, 11:26 am.
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Dog of War
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Chei99
January 6, 2015, 4:38 pm
Morochan People's Republic

  • Link
  • Real World Countries and Land Claimed: parts of Southern Ukraine, parts of Eastern Hungary ,small portion of Romania
  • Why you want to join: To experience conworld geopolitics
  • Have you read everything concerning Altverse?:Yes
  • Do you agree to comply to all rules and policies?: Yes
  • Other: Nothing
I'll vouch for this, unless its history isn't up to scratch. :P
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Dev271
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Justin, Zabuza, Dog of War can you suggest me some good country which can have or produce nukes, except Russia,Pak or any Islam dominated country.
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JustinVuong
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All of the nuclear-possessing states that would fit your preferences are all claimed except for Israel. Keep in mind that Israel's program is alleged, not confirmed. To be honest, having nuclear weapons should be irrelevant for the sake of roleplay. You can control a powerful state without the need of nuclear weapons. Take for example, countries such as Japan or Brazil which wields considerable power in spite of their lack of nuclear weapons.
| Kingdom of Sierra (main) | Mexican Social Republic | Great Korean Empire | Republic of Vietnam |
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