Squat depth

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Squat depth
Topic Started: Oct 25 2006, 01:09 PM (393 Views)
Buster	Oct 25 2006, 01:09 PM Post #1
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 337 Group: Members Member #28 Joined: June 12, 2006	Subject: Squat Depth Today at 1:02 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Was speaking to a physio regrading squat depth, i may be wrong in this (my memory is crap) but she was saying that a squat past 90 degrees is dangerous to your knees, im referring to weighted squats here not air squats. I will need to ask her where the evidence is for this, she says there has been tests doen and the pressure on the knee is huge when when going past that depth. I have always been told to go quite deep for squats but she has me wondering if im doing it right, my knees aren't healthy at the best of times and i don't want to make it worse. Also i mentioned arse to heels air squats and she was a bit concerned with them as well. What do you guys think?, any one got concrete evidence on this one?? Cheers BUSTER
	Pain hurts. Quitting hurts more. www.bustersgym.blogspot.com


kempie	Oct 25 2006, 02:01 PM Post #2
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 1,058 Group: Members Member #21 Joined: April 26, 2006	If you hang around any strength and conditioning site this question will come up and it will always end up on the coaches back to find evidence to shoot down the doc's mantra. The only "evidence" I have ever seen in support of the 90 degrees thing is a trial involving mice. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of people who have improved their knee function by learning how to squat properly and deep. Proper recruitment of the hams and glutes together with the quads, knees tracking in line with the toes, squat initiated with the hips - this is the way we are designed to function and with proper technique and sensible progressions, the potential for damage is slim. When you think about it, the most stress is on the knee joint at 90' so it hardly makes sense to stop and reverse direction at that point. The only way that pressure in the knee could possibly increase past 90 is in a squat where you allow the heels to come up so you are on the ball of your foot and basically drop your bum onto your heels. Here the compression of the hams and calves between the femur and tib/fib can open up the knee joint. We don't do that and I think it would be worthy to show the doc the difference. Or not - many docs learnt that weighted squats are bad, deep squats are bad and yet have never learnt how to squat themselves. If your knees bother you, I would look closely at your technique and also keep a diary to see what exercises cause your knee pain to flare up. Gotta run but will answer more fully later if you have any more questions. Cheers, kempie
	Take a deep breath ... Now do it again! www.crossfitnortheastengland.com


Buster	Oct 25 2006, 04:41 PM Post #3
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 337 Group: Members Member #28 Joined: June 12, 2006	Im being chucked off the computer, ill have to post a proper rely later Thanks mate! Aaron
	Pain hurts. Quitting hurts more. www.bustersgym.blogspot.com


Jerry.Mobbs	Oct 25 2006, 07:13 PM Post #4
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 1,105 Group: Members Member #39 Joined: August 19, 2006	buster if you can, get hold of starting strength by mark rippetoe theres so much detail there on the actual biomechanics of the squat thats also written in language that is easy to understand based on my own personal (and therefore unscientific and inconclusive) experience, the ass to ankle squat is the way to go my knees are stronger now than ever back in 1990 i went through lympstone and did the all arms commando course, it really messed up my knees and i suffered constant pain for years not enough to stop me doing sports, but enough to make me take 10 mins to walk down the stairs in the morning about 3 years ago i started doing the royal court from matt furey and lots of hindu squats whilst that made my kneed stronger, i still had aches after exercise since i've been doing ass to ankle squats my pain has totally gone away i've no idea why, but its just gone despite the significantly heavy workload cf imposes on you on a side note, as your off to the cert in dec, my advice would be not to try and make big increases in weight in any of the exercises in case poor form leads to injury, and you've made a significant investment in time and money to get ready i'd keep the weights light and go for intensity (although will change my mind if davie or any of the other experts suggest you do otherwise) jerry
	www.deepweek.com


Davie	Oct 26 2006, 07:35 AM Post #5
Awesome!!! Posts: 3,703 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: February 9, 2006	Found this one one of the affiliates MYTH: Squats are bad for the knees. National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA) position stand regarding the squat: * The squat exercise is not detrimental to knee joint stability when performed correctly. * Squats, when performed correctly and with appropriate supervision are not only safe, but may be a significant deterrent to knee injuries. Squats are a necessity in life. You can't go a day without squatting. Also saw that you posted over on brand x mate..listen to Coach GD and the rest of the guys over thee!
	My blog CrossFit is not a cult....The Leader said so. Choose Hobo... not Globo.


Buster	Oct 26 2006, 11:46 AM Post #6
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 337 Group: Members Member #28 Joined: June 12, 2006	I posted it on a few sites to try and get as much info as possible on the subject, Vinny is now going to do his research project on squat depth and the impact on knee health now, should be good to see what he comes up with. Quote: The squat exercise is not detrimental to knee joint stability when performed correctly. do you know what they term as correct?? Thanks Aaron
	Pain hurts. Quitting hurts more. www.bustersgym.blogspot.com


Kevin Rogers	Oct 27 2006, 07:45 PM Post #7
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 154 Group: Members Member #23 Joined: May 17, 2006	Digital Coach Davie- Here we go again, ... this is the depth of my Front Squat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSOLz7Xp7nc Have a look and let me know whatz. My eyes aren't good but, ... arse no near ankle. -K



Kevin Rogers	Oct 27 2006, 08:02 PM Post #8
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 154 Group: Members Member #23 Joined: May 17, 2006	D- By the way, I had my knee repaired about 8 years ago and my shoulder repaired about 5 years ago. Both were the results of wrestling injuries, although my knee was probably getting pretty sloppy from the years of distance running. Tore my achilles tendon playing football, broken rib never healed correctly and assorted other minor sports injuries. Just thought that I throw that background info to ya for your review of my video. And I've been married for 24 years. So, ... I'm just a bundle of scar tissue. Its hard to get more flexible at my age. -K



Kevin Rogers	Oct 27 2006, 08:53 PM Post #9
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 154 Group: Members Member #23 Joined: May 17, 2006	Digital Coach Davie- Here's the trifecta, ... I'm at home on a sick day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMa-RfDddcQ But I'm feeling a little better now. No arse to ankles for me. -K



Red	Oct 27 2006, 09:10 PM Post #10
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 2,222 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: April 6, 2006	What the hell has being married for 24 years got to do with anything! :lol: Why do you toes come up so much Kevin? you must push up through your heels when squatting, pretend you are pushing your heels into the floor as hard as you can when you ascend from the squat.



Kevin Rogers	Oct 27 2006, 09:38 PM Post #11
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 154 Group: Members Member #23 Joined: May 17, 2006	LRH- 24 years of scar tissue baby! Some days the Dawg, ... some days the Doghouse! I never noticed that I lift my toes up off the mat till I saw it on the video. I guess that when I focus on the heels, ... aaah ... I donno. Don't think I do that when I go heavy, but not really sure. Will start looking at that. That depth is what you'd expect? -K



Red	Oct 27 2006, 09:59 PM Post #12
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 2,222 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: April 6, 2006	It is always good to video yourself, sometimes you are so into bad habits, you do not notice them anymore until you see them for yourself. Depth okay, try squatting light and going all the way to the deck, dont stop til you feel your heels on your butt and then just increase the weight as your confidence grows.



Red	Oct 27 2006, 10:09 PM Post #13
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 2,222 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: April 6, 2006	I am back and front squatting tommorrow, I shall post a wee vid for you Kevin



Davie	Oct 27 2006, 10:28 PM Post #14
Awesome!!! Posts: 3,703 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: February 9, 2006	Littleredhead Oct 27 2006, 09:59 PM Depth okay, try squatting light and going all the way to the deck, dont stop til you feel your heels on your butt and then just increase the weight as your confidence grows. yeah..what she says
	My blog CrossFit is not a cult....The Leader said so. Choose Hobo... not Globo.


Buster	Oct 28 2006, 10:05 AM Post #15
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 337 Group: Members Member #28 Joined: June 12, 2006	From what i have seen of mark rippoetoe in the CF jornals he advocates a much wider stance than i thought, i think this has a lot to do with the impact on the knees, im taking the journals into the physio and see what she thinks of the wider stance and potential knee injury. Looking forward to LRH's vid, i thinki can learn a lot from that video. BUSTER :ph43r:
	Pain hurts. Quitting hurts more. www.bustersgym.blogspot.com


Buster	Oct 28 2006, 10:08 AM Post #16
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 337 Group: Members Member #28 Joined: June 12, 2006	National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA), i looked at their book the other day, they squat to parralel and no lower, found that quite intersting?? BUSTER
	Pain hurts. Quitting hurts more. www.bustersgym.blogspot.com


Red	Oct 28 2006, 12:40 PM Post #17
Crossfit Disciple Posts: 2,222 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: April 6, 2006	Got some video today Buster, will post later.


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