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Topic Started: Oct 18 2016, 02:20 PM (315 Views)
Rugo
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The Badmin
Have any rule change ideas? Have any comments on the changes? Let us know!
Keroth
 
I honestly forgot Vegeta exists.
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President Gatas Trump
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Make Dragonball Great Again
Hey old bean,

2 Suggestions so far:

Halo Effect: Love it, great idea, and a suggestion to avoid abuse. Currently it goes away when they complete a quest. Somebody could pre-write a quest to have ready the second they get back, removing the halo entirely. I was going to suggest we change that so the Halo goes away after the next week, but they can remove it by posting their return from the Afterlife Sunday at 11:50PM.

I have one or two ideas: The halo remains for X number of real life days (2, 5, 7), or until you complete a battle.

Also:

Changeling class typo fix, it currently says:
Quote:
 
Self-Proclaimed Royalty - You start the game with +500z. Whenever somebody would take your place in a Battle due to a race's class effect, both players gain +50%EXP kills their opponent.


I think it's meant to say "both players gain +50%EXP if that player kills their opponent."
Edited by President Gatas Trump, Oct 19 2016, 10:24 PM.
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Rugo
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The Badmin
I have been worried about the Halo thing as well. I like the X real life days thing, though. I added the "You cannot be challenged for a week after escaping the afterlife" line to try to make it so people don't come back just to be instantly killed by someone who doesn't like them. I was hoping that would cut down on it but still leave risk if you were to challenge people or do quest battles.


Thank you for catching the typo.
Edited by Rugo, Oct 20 2016, 02:17 AM.
Keroth
 
I honestly forgot Vegeta exists.
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Vivi
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Yes. I found this file on my computer. I don't remember if I implimented it on Revival or Discord but it's a reworking or Errata for Fusion if you continue that.

Quote:
 
Potara Errata


Previously
[*]Potara Fusion previously gave +2 to level
[*]Low level and high level characters can fuse
[*]Earrings can continuously be used back to back


New
[*]Fusing characters can only be up to 2 Levels apart.
[*]No level gain
[*]Using Earrings causes a cool down similar to using IT
[*]One racial may be selected from the non dominate player


The Cause of this ruling
The jewel of fusion is the ability to mix two different martial arts and potentially two different sets of heaven and hell moves. The level gaining seems unnecessary and excessive. To compensate, additionally fusion will allow the player to pick one racial from the partnered character.




Fusion Dance Errata


Previously
[*]Fusion Dance previously gave +2 to level


New
[*]No level gain
[*]+1 slot to either Advanced attacks, Skills, Blocks, or Sigs (Successful Fusion)


The Cause of this ruling
Unless one partner is a Bio Android with a racial the same as his or her’s partner, the usefulness of gaining an additional racial from the non dominant fusion partner simply doesn’t exist. Fusion Dance takes a hefty toll of days to obtain in the land of the living. Players looking to this generally have had this planned and intend to mix styles earlier on. To compensate we ruled that an additional slot should be given to the fusion result upon a “Successful” Fusion. With each style having its own focus and advantages (i.e, Aoyu’s blocks, Kii’s skills, Akai Attacks) the choice was made to allow the players to pick where there one slot should go (With the exception of the Mastery slot).


The changes that were going to be made above was to provide a flavor of strength from fusion that wasn't simply boosting yourself a few levels and just out powering them. If you take my advice that I offered in my letter about exp, the power balancing, and leveling up, you can change this errata back to the fusion gaining a level but I wouldn't recommend two. To determine the new fusion's stat points, it's best to reset entirely to 0 and build from the ground up since this character is clearly suppose to be the most efficient form of what two souls could muster. The addition of more attack slots would on a role play level make sense though. After all, Vegito makes use of both Goku and Vegeta's move sets.
Edited by Vivi, Nov 26 2016, 05:10 AM.
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Vivi
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If space continues to be a thing, consider the function of Damage sticking on players after combat. As one of the older vets have mentioned before hand, there should not be any way on Kami's green Earth that someone who got beat to an inch of their life comes back the next day completely recovered. Even Saiyans need help getting to that point.

We rolled around the idea of a RECOVER mechanic basically allowing all races a standard 10%-15% recovery rate for each role play day that passes by after battle. We had a list of items that helped recover outside of battle along with a list that helps you recover inside as well, each with their own advantages. If this is an interest, we can share what we wrote on it.

The reason why space being there would be important is because at the worst case possibility it should allow players to go travel somewhere if they suddenly can't get to their computer on time before someone challenges them. Also it gives Space another purpose apart from travel and quests, it gives you time to lick your wounds especially so if you go off and invest in healing tanks. Sykes covers more into this if you find him.

Letting damage stick would knock the sails out of people who can go around like crazy and benefit from lots of killing, it would also make item stealing effects such as what the Kaizokujins use to have more appealing. There were items that let you do it back in chronicles as well I believe and making everyone more consciously aware about their inventory, their healing items and such, gives them another reason to not immediately rush to the quests that simply boost your exp and leave others behind.

In the concern of how Sparing is suppose, I offer this. Let them fight at 100% to 0. After the battle they take fatigue damage, -20% health. Since you would normally be limited to four spars a week anyways, it would work.
Edited by Vivi, Nov 26 2016, 05:49 AM.
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Vivi
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We never really had a chance to talk about multi dice and stacked damage. In the old sagas we allowed damage to stack in some situations on multidice attacks. Originally, let say a mastery or some abilities were stacked and waiting to be used. Give it a pool of 20% extra damage or so. Now use a move like dragon swipe or worse, a heaven freestyle move such as multiform with 15d30 diced attacks. If even ONE of those dice hit, all 20% additional stacked damage is applied to the hit.

Take the case of Fusion fight with the dragon at the end of Revival. Sure it was a hard fought battle but it was designed to be incredibly difficult if not impossible to beat. Somehow the fusion had a lot of stacked damage and only needed a single hit from their multi diced attacks to land to pump some rather serious and consistent damage. Again, well played and about the only way you pretty much CAN fight something like that, but this time around I propose an Errata for fairness.

Simply take your stacked damage and divide the damage done with however many hit.

Example. You pool together some damage. Lets say like 50 points of damage added to an attack. Your rolling 4d30's and two of them hit. If you divide 50 by 4, the result is going to be 25 damage added to the attack, and 25 damage simply missed. It's easier to explain, makes sense, and the math is relatively easy. Just find the value of bonus damage and divide it by however many dice your throwing to find what your results are.
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Rugo
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The Badmin
Good suggestion. Thank you very much for it!
Keroth
 
I honestly forgot Vegeta exists.
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Vivi
Nov 30 2016, 01:04 AM
We never really had a chance to talk about multi dice and stacked damage. In the old sagas we allowed damage to stack in some situations on multidice attacks. Originally, let say a mastery or some abilities were stacked and waiting to be used. Give it a pool of 20% extra damage or so. Now use a move like dragon swipe or worse, a heaven freestyle move such as multiform with 15d30 diced attacks. If even ONE of those dice hit, all 20% additional stacked damage is applied to the hit.

Take the case of Fusion fight with the dragon at the end of Revival. Sure it was a hard fought battle but it was designed to be incredibly difficult if not impossible to beat. Somehow the fusion had a lot of stacked damage and only needed a single hit from their multi diced attacks to land to pump some rather serious and consistent damage. Again, well played and about the only way you pretty much CAN fight something like that, but this time around I propose an Errata for fairness.

Simply take your stacked damage and divide the damage done with however many hit.

Example. You pool together some damage. Lets say like 50 points of damage added to an attack. Your rolling 4d30's and two of them hit. If you divide 50 by 4, the result is going to be 25 damage added to the attack, and 25 damage simply missed. It's easier to explain, makes sense, and the math is relatively easy. Just find the value of bonus damage and divide it by however many dice your throwing to find what your results are.
This greatly reduces the effectiveness of multidice attacks and adds unnecessary calculations. Imagin adding 5% Power to Multiform and you hit seven dice. Doing 7/15 of 5% Power is silly.

They are by design meant to help deal damage. Outside of an opponent bombing a defensive you're not likely to deal full damage with them but they're better at getting SOME damage, getting any bonus damage from mods, and getting high rolls to break effects.

It really doesn't need an errara.
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Vivi
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Guest1
Nov 30 2016, 05:31 AM
Vivi
Nov 30 2016, 01:04 AM
We never really had a chance to talk about multi dice and stacked damage. In the old sagas we allowed damage to stack in some situations on multidice attacks. Originally, let say a mastery or some abilities were stacked and waiting to be used. Give it a pool of 20% extra damage or so. Now use a move like dragon swipe or worse, a heaven freestyle move such as multiform with 15d30 diced attacks. If even ONE of those dice hit, all 20% additional stacked damage is applied to the hit.

Take the case of Fusion fight with the dragon at the end of Revival. Sure it was a hard fought battle but it was designed to be incredibly difficult if not impossible to beat. Somehow the fusion had a lot of stacked damage and only needed a single hit from their multi diced attacks to land to pump some rather serious and consistent damage. Again, well played and about the only way you pretty much CAN fight something like that, but this time around I propose an Errata for fairness.

Simply take your stacked damage and divide the damage done with however many hit.

Example. You pool together some damage. Lets say like 50 points of damage added to an attack. Your rolling 4d30's and two of them hit. If you divide 50 by 4, the result is going to be 25 damage added to the attack, and 25 damage simply missed. It's easier to explain, makes sense, and the math is relatively easy. Just find the value of bonus damage and divide it by however many dice your throwing to find what your results are.
This greatly reduces the effectiveness of multidice attacks and adds unnecessary calculations. Imagin adding 5% Power to Multiform and you hit seven dice. Doing 7/15 of 5% Power is silly.

They are by design meant to help deal damage. Outside of an opponent bombing a defensive you're not likely to deal full damage with them but they're better at getting SOME damage, getting any bonus damage from mods, and getting high rolls to break effects.

It really doesn't need an errara.
You know, without even digging extensively into "this" system, I can tell you right now that's nonsense. Anyone could have ran a human build, forsake dex entirely and ran with Kii, snagged dragon swipe from Hao with your affinity ability, and spam moves like ki barb and swipe to stupidly increase your power while almost guaranteeing the hit and dealing ridiculous damage while additionally drastically reducing the damage from swipes alone. Heck, that wasn't even what the fusion creation did, they had well over 20% damage stacked dealing ridiculous damage to that dragon in a fight that by all accounts they should have lost. This, and quite a few other ridiculous builds was the reason why stacking damage on multi dice should never have been so effective. The Allure of Multidice was suppose to be the effects they could trigger when a certain number of successes hit, making it harder to cross those leaps and hurtles and giving you rather interesting and powerful effects when those stars did all align. On top of that while your waiting for said stars to align, your consistently dealing steady damage as it progresses. Even when you fail, you usually make progress. Multidice is well fine on its own thank you.

But in the event that your referring to the 5% BASE power of the move, no. That's going to be 5% per hit. Its only the damage your adding to the move from other abilities that should be divided.
Edited by Vivi, Nov 30 2016, 05:58 AM.
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As someone who designed this system I know well enough how it works. Yes, if you dedicate an entire build set toward adding bonus damage to an attack and using a multidice attack to guarantee that addition isn't wasted you're playing the game properly. No one wants to skip an entire turn for something like Ki Barbs and whiff on a single dice attack.

That being said I've been suggesting a change to Dragon Swipes for a while as its been a consistent issue in several SLs. At one point Alex headed my advice and made the attack more costly (3 Ki I believe) and added a clause that you couldn't perform it back to back to prevent spam and abuse (looking at you, Ivan). Not sure at what point that change was reverted.
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President Gatas Trump
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Make Dragonball Great Again
Quote:
 
At one point Alex headed my advice and made the attack more costly (3 Ki I believe) and added a clause that you couldn't perform it back to back to prevent spam and abuse (looking at you, Ivan). Not sure at what point that change was reverted.


Probably Revivals, I hear that guy was a Badmin
Edited by President Gatas Trump, Nov 30 2016, 07:20 AM.
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Vivi
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Nov 30 2016, 07:00 AM
As someone who designed this system I know well enough how it works. Yes, if you dedicate an entire build set toward adding bonus damage to an attack and using a multidice attack to guarantee that addition isn't wasted you're playing the game properly. No one wants to skip an entire turn for something like Ki Barbs and whiff on a single dice attack.

That being said I've been suggesting a change to Dragon Swipes for a while as its been a consistent issue in several SLs. At one point Alex headed my advice and made the attack more costly (3 Ki I believe) and added a clause that you couldn't perform it back to back to prevent spam and abuse (looking at you, Ivan). Not sure at what point that change was reverted.
I'd hardly say "dedicate an entire build" would be all it takes to benefit grossly from that but I've said my piece. Dragon swipe on the other hand I do agree needs a change. It's so good that if you don't have it, your behind against other hao users. I think what may have given anyone pause on changing that before hand was simply knowing that a lot of Hao's moves aren't up to snuff. Some pretty good skills, some great masteries, but lets be honest, Prolific blast, Dragon swipe, and (if you some how stumbled on the extra days to learn) Dragon Fire completely outshine the rest of the set. Probably more so now than ever now that damage sticks.

I guess what I'm saying is, Nerf Dragon swipe and find a way to make other moves more appealing, if not add a couple new ones. I know I've got some ideas for moves if early enough to be added.
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Rugo
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The Badmin
Dragon Swipes has incoming changes to it. As for multidice and added damage, I agree with Strange (Vivi) in that it is a little ridiculous mechanically in this system. Multidice inherently decreases the chances of missing astronomically, but the tradeoff is that you do less damage. If you combine multi-dice with added damage that doesn't scale the way the damage for multi-dice does, then it breaks the combat system. It's just a little more math but we are all on computers with calculators.
Keroth
 
I honestly forgot Vegeta exists.
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Nova
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I am the Xenowaifu
are you going to add housing upkeep or will that be in rp?
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Vivi
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I wasn't sure if I should post on rulings or changes for this debate but it's in regards to the Crit system.

I'll just post what I said before.

Quote:
 
Peanut
Dec 2 2016, 02:57 PM
"Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit."

Is the example in the rules, so it does seem to cancel crits if you don't have a positive modifier to cancel it out.

Trump, the chart confirms roughly what i was planning Exp wise. Thanks for linking that, and yeah, Bukujutsu seemed important so I made sure I had it.

Actually, all of your advice is great as well.

Vivi, I will certainly ask about my Signature Move, because I agree, it makes sense.
That sounds odd to me but that maybe because this past year I've been on a Dnd 5e grind. Akai counter it "well enough" but other styles may in fact get little to no modifiers added to result. Level up all you want and apply your dex however, it'll never matter how high the cap is in this case because criticals will be difficult to reach. I'll give it a look see in the other sites to see if the ruling is the same though thinking about it now, I'm beginning to feel inclined that it was. Just seems odd since there's one style that benifits, if not pushes for crits in a few of there moves and I'm not certain if they benefit directly from result modifiers in there style. Additionally I don't understand how that applies.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You have a Critical Hit. (The Natural result was 30)

What mattered in this example was the Natural result.


Example: You roll 1d32. The result is a 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You do not have a Critical Hit.

In this example the natural result was off but the modifier wasn't counted.


Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit.

In this example the Natural result was spot on but the modifier was counted.


It seems odd to discount a modifier for it being one way not counting for being the other. I get it by the way. If the positive was counted to pass, Akai users would be delighted with their result boosters to hit. If negative modifers were not counted, it probably assist players who are on the shit end of rolling d20's such as the Kuro Signature Fade to Black, or other move types that lower dice sides and results. I feel like counting negative modifiers over positive modifiers sets the tone that it is better to run result slashing builds than result building builds, sort of giving Kuro another leg up over Akai. I would figure the best way to handle it is to make a crit based on your natural result matching your dice cap.

From the other vets watching, what are your thoughts on it? Of course I'm not saying this to take away the crit blocking nature of the mastery. In fact if that was suppose to be the design to the mastery, I feel like there's another way to write it to make it incredibly difficult to be crit upon. In view of Negative modifier vs Positive modifier, do you think results of either should matter against your natural roll and if so, why should one get more say on the crit than the other?


I'm in the process of reviewing the changes to the crit system. According to my findings, in revelations Positive and Negative modifiers were used for crit fishing and blocking

Quote:
 

(Pulled from Revelations)
Critical Hits
A critical hit occurs when you roll the highest you can possibly roll with your dice. This includes modifiers.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have a Critical Hit.

When you have a Critical Hit, your attack does double the base damage it would normally do. Modifiers are applied only after the base damage is doubled.

If your attack has multiple dice, such as 2d30, you cannot have a Critical Hit.

Example: OnlineHost: Goku rolled 1 30-sided die: 30 (This is a critical hit)

OnlineHost: Goku rolled 1 34-sided die: 34 (This is a critical hit)

OnlineHost: Goku rolled 1 34-sided die: 32, but your attack said "This attack gains +2 to the result" (32 + 2 = 34, this is a critical hit)

OnlineHost: Goku rolled 2 30-sided die: 30 20 (This is NOT a critical hit)


Countering demanded a perfect role, presuming that modifiers were not a thing for determining a counters success.

Quote:
 
Counters
A Counter occurs when you have a perfect roll as the defender. A perfect roll is when you roll the highest amount you could possibly roll.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have Countered the attack.

When you Counter an attack, you automatically get to perform an attack on that opponent, regardless of whose turn it would be next. You still have to pay the cost of your attack.

The attack must be STOPPED in order to gain a Counter effect.

Example: Your opponent rolls 1d32. The result is 31. You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have not Countered the attack.


In the later incarnation of the game, Revivals. The rules were changed.

Quote:
 

(From Revival's own rules)
Critical Hits
When you have a Critical Hit, your attack deals double the base damage it would normally do. Modifiers are applied only after the base damage is doubled.
If your attack has multiple dice, such as 2d30, you cannot have a Critical Hit.

A critical hit occurs when you roll the highest result naturally on an attack roll. This means that on 1d30, your roll must come out to 30 before any modifiers were added to the effect. Modifiers subtracting from the effect can still negate a CRITICAL.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have a Critical Hit.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You have a Critical Hit. (The Natural result was 30)

Example: You roll 1d32. The result is a 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You do not have a Critical Hit.

Example: You roll 1d32. The result is a 32. You have a Critical Hit.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit.


And for the Counter, it remains the same.

Quote:
 
Counters
A Counter occurs when you have a perfect roll as the defender. A perfect roll is when you roll the highest amount you could possibly roll.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have Countered the attack.

When you Counter an attack, you automatically get to perform an attack on that opponent, regardless of whose turn it would be next. You still have to pay the cost of your attack.

The attack must be STOPPED in order to gain a Counter effect.

Example: Your opponent rolls 1d32. The result is 31. You roll 1d30. The result is 30. You have not Countered the attack.


Personally I'd propose that Criticals were the same as Counters. If you rolled the dice cap, you'd crit, modifier or not. Knowing those crits can still come wouldn't particularly stop me personally from building more into result moding if I was running a Kuro or Akai build but maybe there's an angle I'm not seeing it. Thoughts?

(Did a quick scan to see what abilities other styles have to up their results. Hao doesn't look so good, Aoyu has some stacks so long as they can hit, Akai is obviously good, Kuro has some great ones especially if its their restricted attacks, Kii has a few good ones at least, and Mido laughably has next to none yet relies on hitting past a certain amount a lot)

Edited by Vivi, Dec 2 2016, 10:29 PM.
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