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Intricacies of Combat
Topic Started: Dec 2 2016, 01:21 PM (120 Views)
Leopold
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So me and the gang I brought along are all new to this site. We come from a soft stat RP, so hard stat sites like this are pretty new to us, with a little exception. I was wondering if any of the returning members had any tips?

Now, I'm not here going "OP builds please" I think that goes against the spirit of the game, and I'd like to avoid the impact of meta-knowledge on how I RP and direct my characters growth.

What I am wondering are the blatant pitfalls that new members fall for. Investing too much into a single stat, certain items that seem good at first but fall off, or even simple things like, "Don't waste your blocks too early".

I bring this up because we have been doing practice matches to get the hang of things... and I'm pretty bad xD. It's too late to make adjustments now that I'm approved, so I'm going to stick with the style I had in mind, but I would like to know the things I should avoid(whether specific, or in a general sense), rather than the things that are OP or 'good'.
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Vivi
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Don't immediately rush to complete your move set. I seen builds that already hold some significant sway in battle fall apart because they fell levels behind other players to get their moves. Sneak a move or two in throughout the session when the experience points show that you have leg room to work with. Sometimes there are even missions that help you get moves you want without costing you the experience pit fall. That I feel is something that some players tend to find out the hard way.

Heaven and Hell moves are fantastic and you'll always see that one move that will work incredible for your set but don't throw yourself into a position to get thrown into the afterlife just to get whats going on there. Don't be a Bane Mercer* or a Sykes* by spending too much time in the afterlife either. It will come to haunt you when events suddenly pop up.

As for blocks, take a look at how your build is set up. Are you here for the long game? Do you have to end it before a point? Are you a tuffle and in need of taking advantage of those first ten turns? Figure out what your set needs to have happen and how your opponent can ruin it. Try to save your blocks for when they are either about to...

A: Push you to a point where you'll have to make TF rolls.
B: an effect is going to end something important if it hits and they just rolled high or
C: They are about to Crit you.

You can't use a block on a signature or a restricted attack (except Dragon Fire in Haokiru which specifically says you can use a block against THAT restricted attack. Honestly you should never allow this move to hit you if you can avoid it).

Also come to terms with the fact that you'll never be able to counter everything in the game. Even as a bio android being able to snag some moves outside my style, there will always always always be a move that could shut me down entirely (and ones that I can't even learn!) but don't let it discourage you from fighting either. Some of you guys coming in actually seem to have a firm grasp on how to put things together. Don't get caught up in old hypes about some players being too hard to challenge, never be afraid to go after them either (especially if they stand in the way of your story!). Going back in the history of the site, I've seen some new (new for their time) players get intimidated in fighting some of the vets simply by a well justified lore they earned. Ironically enough, some of those intimated players were rocking sets that shuts down their advances hard. Essentially what I'm saying is, have some confidence in your build. There's always going to be someone you'll give a real bad day to in combat.

*Bane if your reading this, you were one of my favorite reads in chronicles buddy. I actually read everything you did in hell but god daaaaamn.
*Sykes if your reading this.... lol
Edited by Vivi, Dec 2 2016, 02:20 PM.
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Leopold
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I am definitely not afraid of combat, as protecting my character is not really a concern of mine. I'm already an obnoxiously silly role, and I tend to roleplay for comedic purposes anyways. This will often put me in hard to get out of situations, hence my Signature Move giving me a *chance* at escaping.

Your advice definitely opened my eyes to something that I missed. I kept worrying about their blocks when we fought... while forgetting that my Signature can't be blocked, only avoided with defense rolls. I feel kinda dumb now, I didn't have to stall for as long, but it's better to learn now than never.

I also like the advice about not rushing to the afterlife. I have to admit, the thought did cross my mind. I love the Ginyu Force way too much, as their role coincides with my character's. I'll definitely be avoiding that until it occurs naturally.

One thing that was getting on my nerves, and this is certainly just a flaw in my build, was this Mastery;
Quote:
 
Trickster Mastery [KUROKONWAKU, MASTERY]
Description: In the end, you must have that one ace in the hole. The trick your opponent did not know you had in your arsenal. You must be able to disrupt their plans, trick them at the last moment and take away their security blankets. The knowledge they treasured most, their precious resources -- a Kurokonwaku master knows how to take these all away through cunning use of their own Ki manipulation mastery and should.
Effect: Your opponent's attack and defensive roll results against you gain -2. All of your Kurokonwaku physical attacks gain "SUCCESSFUL - If your attack roll result is 25 or higher, deactivate a CONSTANT Skill". All of your Kurokonwaku energy attacks gain "SUCCESSFUL - If your attack roll result is 25 or higher, your opponent cannot gain HP or KI Points on their next turn."
Requirements: Must know at least three (3) Kurokonwaku attacks,skills, and/or blocks.
Training Days: 4


This thing completely gimped me. It essentially meant no Criticals or Counters. Such a good mastery! At least, for low levels when people lack positive hit modifiers.

Anyways, I appreciate the advice. Thanks for responding!
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Vivi
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Kuro is intended to shut down builds and be gimping if you will however, Trickster Mastery doesn't stop your Crits. I was fairly certain though that if you naturally roll the highest you can roll, you crit. There should be no taking that away from you. The results added wont affect your crits so long as you roll the top. You can exceed your dice cap with a +3 modifier and roll 32 with a d30 but it's not a crit (unless the move your using says otherwise). I know it's been awhile since I really tore through the rule book here but I'm fairly certain that still stands. It's just like dnd.

Though I would like to impart some critism to your attack. I would suggest if you can to instead ask the Admin if you can rework your signature. If all 4 dice hit, your going to do a lot of damage and you may even have the match severely thrown your way since typically Mido users have good power to back it up. I suggest instead of all dice rolls being successful, you change it to if all dice rolls fail. It can be just as hard and that would mechanically be the time you'd WANT to leave. Though if I were you I'd push to see if you can make it if 3 out of 4 miss, you leave. But again, not my call.

Curiously I wonder how that would work if all dice hit, you actually killed your foe, but you leave the battle because that's how its suppose to go. That's a weird one since a victor would claim the prize money from the opponent but your... not there to collect it?
Edited by Vivi, Dec 2 2016, 02:45 PM.
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President Gatas Trump
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Make Dragonball Great Again
Yeah Trickster is my favorite Kuro mastery.

As for advice, here's some to start that every veteran follows and doesn't want other people to follow (be honest we all plan to kill one another eventually):

  • Bukjutsu (flight) is important. It costs 2 Training Days and is taught everywhere. If you don't have Bukujutsu and your opponent does, unless you have some racial that helps, your opponent gets +4 dice sides against you on everything.

  • Spending a small amount of Training Days is fine but do not spend too many, you lose 9/10ths of a day of EXP. Quests to learn abilities are better (there are some in the afterlife).

  • Check out the EXP chart here: http://s15.zetaboards.com/DragonBallLegacy/site/
    Note when it fluctuates to different amounts. If your Power Level is 900 at the start of a week, you only need 3 days (90 exp) and 4 training days (12 exp) to reach the next bracket. If you spend those 4 days on anything else you'd be wasting it, since the 30 EXP from the extra 4 days is nothing compared to the 250 they would have given you the following week. Transition weeks are the best time to spend training days, so maybe hold off on it until then. OR you can try to spend none early on and get as much EXP as possible from bonus-EXP quests to get to the next bracket a week early.

  • Make sure you have at least one low cost ability, preferably 1 ki. If I power up twice (6 ki) I can either attack 3 times with a 2 ki move or SIX times with a 1 ki move, and the power difference is normally only 10-15%. Sometimes it's 0%.

  • Having one main gimick in your build to start is fine, but plenty of people can shut it down, especially Kuro users, so extra tactics help later on.

  • I've rarely if ever feared someone who went full Dex. Boosting to 1d35 looks good on paper but you can still roll shit. When you get that 1-10 roll result against an idiot with 1d29 roll your whole day is ruined, because they hit 2x harder and have 1.5x the health, so for every time they hit you, you have to hit them 3 times and dodge 2 more attacks. Aim to have 30-35% dex as the sweet spot, as having more dex than your opponent is the goal since that ALSO lowers their dice sides by 1, but having too much puts you at the mercy of the dice and having too little stacks the rolls heavily against you on most builds.

  • Blocks work just as well against criticals so it's good to save them, but remember that even a measly 20 is statistically better than what you'll roll for Defense. Don't be afraind to block a heavy hit if you're in trouble.

  • Lastly, and this one is important, everyone you know and love will betray you for 100z.
Edited by President Gatas Trump, Dec 2 2016, 02:47 PM.
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Leopold
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"Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit."

Is the example in the rules, so it does seem to cancel crits if you don't have a positive modifier to cancel it out.

Trump, the chart confirms roughly what i was planning Exp wise. Thanks for linking that, and yeah, Bukujutsu seemed important so I made sure I had it.

Actually, all of your advice is great as well.

Vivi, I will certainly ask about my Signature Move, because I agree, it makes sense.
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Vivi
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Peanut
Dec 2 2016, 02:57 PM
"Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit."

Is the example in the rules, so it does seem to cancel crits if you don't have a positive modifier to cancel it out.

Trump, the chart confirms roughly what i was planning Exp wise. Thanks for linking that, and yeah, Bukujutsu seemed important so I made sure I had it.

Actually, all of your advice is great as well.

Vivi, I will certainly ask about my Signature Move, because I agree, it makes sense.
That sounds odd to me but that maybe because this past year I've been on a Dnd 5e grind. Akai counter it "well enough" but other styles may in fact get little to no modifiers added to result. Level up all you want and apply your dex however, it'll never matter how high the cap is in this case because criticals will be difficult to reach. I'll give it a look see in the other sites to see if the ruling is the same though thinking about it now, I'm beginning to feel inclined that it was. Just seems odd since there's one style that benifits, if not pushes for crits in a few of there moves and I'm not certain if they benefit directly from result modifiers in there style. Additionally I don't understand how that applies.

Example: You roll 1d30. The result is 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You have a Critical Hit. (The Natural result was 30)

What mattered in this example was the Natural result.


Example: You roll 1d32. The result is a 30. Your attack has +2 to the result, making it 32. You do not have a Critical Hit.

In this example the natural result was off but the modifier wasn't counted.


Example: You roll 1d30. The result is a 30. Your attack has -2 to the result, making it 28. You do not have a Critical Hit.

In this example the Natural result was spot on but the modifier was counted.


It seems odd to discount a modifier for it being one way not counting for being the other. I get it by the way. If the positive was counted to pass, Akai users would be delighted with their result boosters to hit. If negative modifers were not counted, it probably assist players who are on the shit end of rolling d20's such as the Kuro Signature Fade to Black, or other move types that lower dice sides and results. I feel like counting negative modifiers over positive modifiers sets the tone that it is better to run result slashing builds than result building builds, sort of giving Kuro another leg up over Akai. I would figure the best way to handle it is to make a crit based on your natural result matching your dice cap.

From the other vets watching, what are your thoughts on it? Of course I'm not saying this to take away the crit blocking nature of the mastery. In fact if that was suppose to be the design to the mastery, I feel like there's another way to write it to make it incredibly difficult to be crit upon. In view of Negative modifier vs Positive modifier, do you think results of either should matter against your natural roll and if so, why should one get more say on the crit than the other?

Edit: I think I'm going to continue this on another thread since digging through older sites I'm seeing the changes happen in different places.
Edited by Vivi, Dec 2 2016, 09:50 PM.
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Vivi
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Trump: Lastly, and this one is important, everyone you know and love will betray you for 100z.

I like to think I'm one of the easier players to work with buuuut...


Posted Image

It's all fun and games with you and your best buddies till your both the only ones on the same world where a single unique item is being offered up.
Edited by Vivi, Dec 2 2016, 09:11 PM.
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