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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2015, 03:29 PM (80 Views) | |
| Animos | Dec 8 2015, 03:29 PM Post #1 |
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So, bordem and the desire to write has filled my mind as of late. But while I have very little muse to do much else with my characters, I have been thinking about a few odd things: Super Saiyan God Theory, Super Saiyan Four relation, Legendary Super Saiyans, Changeling Transformations, and anything that strikes my fancy. With that said, I wonder what everyone thinks about these things. Super Saiyan God Theory and It's Relation to Super Saiyan Four: This has been a pretty hot topic for a while, and I notice a lot of people avoid it in truth. I'mma poke the badger here and see if it bites me or wants a cookie. So, first off, lemme say I HATE this form. It feels like a cop out to me, like they didn't want to use the other abilities because this one would be shiny and new, instead of using what was established. I feel that Beerus (Or how ever it is spelled) was kinda over blown and that they made a foe that was a Deus Ex Machina. But moving on! So, We have Super Saiyan God (as a base ish form) and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (As a transformation?) to deal with in this idea. So if we go of the logic that SSG Goku was a 7, Beerus was a 10, and all that jazz, then Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan would be like... 350/10 right? Super Saiyan is 50x that of a base form. Well, if that was the case, why did Beerus even let them get that far? Being 350 TIMES more powerful than someone is an execution, not a battle. So what if it was a bit different. Goku and Vegeta both unlocked this form without the ritual. So that would mean there is a power difference. At least on some level. Goku said he figured out how to TAP into the power of the Super Saiyan God at will, meaning he no longer needed the ritual. So why was Beerus seeming to be unconcerned about that level of power? Maybe it wasn't as powerful as people let on. Golden Frieza wasn't even enough to worry Beerus, and he was clearly stronger than Goku was in the start. So where would this point the power rankings? My idea is that SSGSS unlocks the power of SSG, and boosts it, but only slightly. Goku and Vegeta would go from 7's, to maybe... A 7.5 or so. Golden Frieza was probably a 7.75 or an 8, so Beerus didn't show fear. He was still stronger than both of them. So, if you wanted a physical number for the boost... It's odd to try to relate. SSJ was x50, SSJ2 was x100, SSJ3 was supposted to be some place around x300, and SSJ4 was... Well, SSJ4. Golden Oozaru was supposted to be about x500 to base, so SSJ4 was at least x750. More energy efficent, smaller, faster, deadlier. In DB: Xenoverse, SSJ4 and SSGSS are about equal in power. So what is to say they are not the same? SSG would be weaker than SSGSS, just as Golden Oozaru is weaker than SSJ4. So, for the sake of arguement and this idea, why not make them the same or very close to the same? Goku's combat experiance, combined with his resolve helped to close the gap between him and Beerus, but Beerus was only at 70%, so it would be about right to think. Which also brings me to another idea. The nature of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan in general. We all know that SSJ1 and SSJ2 are unlocked by intense emotions, mostly focusing on rage and anger. These emotions are seen as negative, but can be used for a good goal, as was seen through the show and manga. So, ponder this with me if you will: What is Super Saiyan was the Evil side of the heart, and Super Saiyan God was the good side of it? The ritual to make a Super Saiyan God required PURE GOOD hearted Saiyans. Where any Saiyan could in theory become a Super Saiyan. It was said that Saiyans, when they were found, were dark hearted and evil. The Super Saiyan God did battle against them, but lost in the long run. So, a Legendary Super Saiyan shows up on the scene, goes into the Golden Ape form, and is killing the pure good Saiyans, last of them power up the strongest of their group to fight, creating a SSG. Battle rages, ruining the world, but in the process, the ritual wears off, the last hope is gone, down goes the SSG, lost to lore. This causes the Saiyans to need to flee off the world, as it was stated in filler, and to go to Planet Plant. The Legendary Super Saiyan dies when the world goes, due to being left behind. While they respect the power, it was too chaotic, too dangerous, for the race to bring with. Which would make sense on why beings like Broly would be slain after figuring it out. So, I will get into the Legendary Super Saiyan deal soon enough. As well as deeper understanding and ideas on other topics. Tell me what you think of this. Should I not waste my time? Should I get a real job? Should I keep writing? Please, let me know. --------------------- Today's topic is an interesting one. Legendary Super Saiyans Not just Broly, but the idea behind it as a whole. The idea and a few personal theories that I have on the whole topic. Once again, this is all my own opinion, and I do hope you take it as such. I'm not seeking to change anything on the site, but simply to chew up time and enjoy writing for a little bit. So. Here we go. As we all known, the Legendary Super Saiyan has it's own transformation, a unique form of Super Saiyan that appears nearly impervious to damage, builds ki instead of loses it, and physically changes the warrior into a hulking brute of a killing machine. But if this was the case, why was it first wondered if it had to be in Oozaru? Vegeta had flash backs of a golden ape during the filler parts of the Frieza saga, did this have anything to do with how the legend came about? Well, my idea is a bit more simple. The Legendary Form is a Sub Transformation. Much like the different stages of Super Saiyan 1, this is a form that is dependant on a lot of factors. Super Saiyan is needed, but what if it is more than just that. The idea that a Super Saiyan comes only once in a thousand years has made me ponder a few things. The Saiyans are a war like warrior race. Which brings up two important questions. 1) What would things like infant mortality rates be? 2)How many Saiyans really had time to breed and raise children before the PTO showed up? The reason I bring this up is simple. These two factors could lead to the restriction of genetics. Do you think if they had a way to control to Broly or any LSSJ, that they would have killed him? I don't. I think they would have selectively bred Paragus and his lady to figure out why they could produce one, and if they could make more. Simply for the fact I feel that the LSSJ is based solely in genetics. Parent A has Gene AA, while Parent B has Gene AB. The B gene is needed in a pair to make a LSSJ. So i these two had a kid, it would be: AA AB Now. If Parent A and B both have genes that are AB, it looks different: AA BB Well, now you have something rather different. Keeping in mind that this is a MASSIVE over simplification, perhaps these B genes are needed to build the basics of a LSSJ. If these are present, it makes it seem more real that one could be made. Combine that with the general darker nature of a Saiyan, it would be easy to manifest it's powers. Once this happens, it doesn't take long for it get out of control. The Baby Broly could, if he was able to transform right then and there, manifest a power level of 500,000. At that age, it's insanity. Now, imagine that progressing forwards. A non-insane LSSJ, fighting as she/he sees fit, killing mercilessly, could in theory build up an insane power. Even if he only got to 12,500, a LSSJ reaches to 625,000 upon first transforming. IF it was a full moon, that jumps to 6,250,000. Enough to give final form reason a reason to stop playing around. And that is at a point weaker then Prince Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga! So you can quickly see how this spirals out of control and how quickly it becomes a threat to everything around it. The LSSJ is a thing to be feared, and when it's out of control, such as in Oozaru or just insane, it makes things much worse. Imagine how different things could have been if Frieza had been slightly softer, not heading out to kill the Saiyans, but to simply claim Prince Vegeta. Imagine how, if given proper treatment, Broly could have changed the entire course of the PTO's fate. He was a mutant with a gift that could have altered so much. But instead, he went insane, escaped planet Vegeta, and never got help he needed, and had to be put down. But this also leads me to a different point. With the arrival of the PTO, the changing of how things went on planet Vegeta, and generally the drastic changes that happened, could it be possible that Broly was the start of a flowering within the race? Changelings have all shown to be at the top of the food chain, but imagine a race, a planet, full of beings of legends. It could have changed the universe in the course of decades, but the power was too hard to control. So, in conclusion, the LSSJ form, in my opinion, is based on genetics, time spent using the power to unlock the deeper parts of it, and a bit of luck to have enough control to not kill yourself. It could be possible that if all these factors fell into place, it could lead to a revival of that ancient battle, or perhaps, given the right people, a reshaping of the universe. Once again, thank you for your time! ------------------ Next topic: Changelings! Ahh, this race is odd as hell! Where to even start? Ok, I know. Frieza. The Changeling that got the most screen time is a great place to start. So, when we first encounter him in his little bubble car, he was small, but said to be retardly powerful. We later learn he is around 530,000 for his base power level. Right to be feared! Now, we know Frieza got more powerful each time he changed, mainly because he was lifting off his restrictions that his altered form had put on him. Second form Frieza looked to be the most combat ready of his forms. Tall, well muscled, fast, and with about 1,000,000 power level, it was better than most living beings in this universe. While people argue this, 100% Frieza was at 144,000,000 PL. He was dangerous, powerful, and better than nearly anything this universe could put out. He never needed to train because he never saw the point. And to be honest, with Vegeta under his control, and the rest of the race gone... It really didn't matter much, did it? But I digress. Frieza was stated to have a lot of abilities. In a way, he was considered a gifted child. Every world he was on, he learned new things. He was able to mimic powers by seeing them a few times, had telekentic abilties, had a tactical mind, and was generally dangerous. He was my favorite villain of the show for the simply terror he caused. Cell, Buu, everyone else had no real lasting impact. They tried with Buu, but only the Kaios knew about him. They tried with Beerus, but at the same time, he feels hollow. Frieza was a name that sewed terror across the universe. And his race had a lot to do with it. Naturally gifted with power, he was lethal to an extreme, his mind allowed him to learn abilities insanely fast, his array of moves made him deadlier, his ability to breathe in space made blowing up a planet that caused too much trouble a simple chore, and the sheer level of duribility made killing him nearly impossible. If it wasn't for the sheer loss of energy, Frieza could have survived being cut in half by his own attack. He survived the angry energy blast from Goku, AND the planet exploding. He was alive, semi concious, and all things considered, fine when King Cold found him in space. Missing his entire lower body, most of an arm, and HALF HIS HEAD! Hell, King Cold was still talking despite a hole in the chest that would felled any other character instantly. So it's possible to say they don't care about the void, injuries, or even energy use. They restrict themselves simply because that is the right thing to do really. Imagine, a race like that, naturally powerful, naturally gifted, and then imagine what could threaten that. It boils to reason that Frieza destroyed the Saiyans for fear of a Super Saiyan yes, but he also did it to preserve his race. Imagine thinking about how powerful one race is becoming, hearing legends and myths of that race, and seeing it unfolding... Then looking at your own, who went through the same changes. Now... You have a problem. They could uproot the established order. So, well... Execute Order 66. Each Changeling seems to have an altered form in which they can gain or lose power. Cooler always stayed in his natural form, and later learned of an empowered stage. Could all changelings do this? Did King Cold have one? Or was it simply blind luck? Could others discover it if they had enough time? We have percious little data on this race, hell... They are called Changelings by the fans because no one ever came up with a real name. So all we can do is guess. Biologically, they have to have redunant systems to survive near fatal attacks. They don't require air to survive either. While it is possible that it was a bluff, Revival of F showed that to be false. As Frieza blew up earth and survived it, despite his weakened state. So perhaps it's something else really. Perhaps his race only inhales to speak. Who knows really? Sorry this one is a bit more ramble like than the others. I'm taking a lot of shots in the dark here. So, in closing. The Changelings are a peaked out race. They have the best of what they can, but they are so prideful they do not wish to become better, as they always have been. This is what lead to their defeat, their deaths, and on here, their near genocide. ----------------------- Genetic Theories So, this one has had some... Mixed debates on it. Once again, I do not have a degree in biology or anything of that nature, so this is more: Me shooting into the wind and pondering some neat ideas. So, we have a few: Super Saiyan Gene Theory, Legendary Saiyan Genes, Mixed Blood and it's effect upon powers, and anything else that catches my fancy. Super Saiyan Gene Theory: This one is pretty forward. If the parent of a child had already unlocked Super Saiyan before the child was conceved, they can gain the Super Saiyan transformation a lot easier. This can pointed at for Trunks and Goten, with Gohan being the control for it. Gohan was born before the Super Saiyan was even an idea, where the other two had been after the fact. Some could argue it was for plot convience. Having Goten and Trunks not being SSJ level would have made them on par with the humans, and there for ignoring the need to teach them the fusion dance, as someone like say, Tien and Yamcha could have done it to the same effect, or they could have made a better impact if they unlocked it later while in the fusion. Now, I support the Super Saiyan Gene Theory. It makes sense to me. Super Saiyan is a transformation, a changing of the body and the flow of energy in one way or the next. Perhaps it causes an awakening in the genetics of the person who does attain it? Perhaps this trait is dominate, so it passes to each generation? Doesn't that mean beings like Pan and Bulla could change into Super Saiyans? Yes it does. AT said the only reason they never changed is because he couldn't see them as Super Saiyans. While that is a lame reason, it is one of the biggest road blocks to this idea. With this in place, it makes the theory fall upon shaken ground. Personally, I wonder if others support or are against this idea. So, community, what say you? ----------------- Goku: Genes are a strange thing to start digging into, however, the idea of a "Super Saiyan Gene" sounds interesting. Thus, I'm going to feed this theory just a little bit. I'll hit a couple of key points and then feel free to correct me or otherwise prove me wrong. Unlocking the Super Saiyan So first, I'll hit an important point that well... I'm surprised hasn't really been touched on in this yet. The fact that Super Saiyan comes from a need, not a want... Most of the time anyway. Now, notice, looking at each Super Saiyan.... There have been IMPORTANT factors in the means of achieving the golden warrior. Examples of Which Are: -The realization of loss for Goku (Death of Krillin) -The fear of loss for Gohan (Cell murdering his family) -The fear of being left in the dust for Vegeta (-points to the anime-) -The fear of never gaining his father's attention for Trunks (-points to Vegeta- -The fear of death for Goten. (When in a spar with his mother) Now taking each of these into account.... Well, most of the time it appears that fear is a heavy factor on it, and in the moment is when fear is at its greatest peak is when you NEED hope the most. Personally, that is where I believe the concept of Super Saiyan is interesting. It really does, in it's own interesting way, stand for hope. Now for the next interesting piece; Pan and Bulla Well, these two, as you mentioned threw a MAJOR corkscrew into your theory... or did they? Well breaking down the characters of Pan and Bulla; you realize, there is literally no validity to them throwing a wrench into our plans. One, all GT (sad to say) is non-canon, therefore the possibility of SSJ Pan and Bulla, are still there. Two, going with GT being in some way an accurate representation of Pan and Bulla, you find that the only one that would've ever been a candidate is Pan. As Bulla never put any effort into training and therefore... Well, never would've been able to withhold the transformation. Now, here's the interesting piece. Did Pan ever have a moment where her truest fears were realized or really ever came close? From what we can understand, her truest motivation for fighting on was that of keeping her grandfather's (my character's) attention. Her worst fear was that she'd never see her grandpa again. And what happened? Well, I'll tell you. He came close to death, but Pan openly states several times "Grandpa can't lose." While also attributing in that Goku's "lolplotarmor" was there.... Well, that's the most accurate statement. At the end of the day, Pan never had that need. She knew, that even if Goku died, getting him back was possible. Her worst fear was almost impossible to realize. Therefore it's safe to say regardless, that Pan and Bulla DO NOT hurt this theory at all. |
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| Animos | May 25 2016, 06:49 PM Post #2 |
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So, ideas. Beerus and the creation of Buu. This idea was one that came to me while suffering heat exhaustion. But the idea is pretty much this: If not for Beerus, Buu would have never been made. Bibidity and Babadity are the last of their race. They are not seen execpt for that, and both are clearly evil, but there is a line that caught my focus. Babadity wanted to finish his father's mission, killing the gods. But why? The idea that came to mind was simple. Beerus blew up their homeworld. Buu was made to fight against the gods (the Kaios in general). They made Buu to fight against Beerus, and all the abilities would have helped this. Regeneration to save from the massive attacks, ability to survive in a vaccuum, absorbtion of foes, getting stronger based on that much. These abilities would help beat Beerus if Buu was made for true battle, and he was going that path. The Supreme Kaios were his training. What do you all think? |
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| Marula | May 25 2016, 09:42 PM Post #3 |
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Where's my damn Ice cream?
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Man i forgot you did this before... Was so nice to read through again. Will definitely need to make a proper reply of my thoughts on it this weekend when i will have more time. Some really good stuff man. Keep it up. |
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| Animos | Jun 12 2016, 10:18 PM Post #4 |
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So, I got more into thinking about the Buu was made to combat Beerus thing, and it makes more and more sense. With Buu doing battle against the Supreme Kaios, it only makes sense that in time, they would attract the focus and ire of Beerus. Who knows what powers could have been unlocked if Buu had been true time to digest the most powerful of the Kaios, and not sealed away for as long as he had been. Supreme Kaio said that Buu was the same, but I think all the energy gathered was simply to awaken Buu without problem. Babadi had said that if Buu was awoken early, it could kill him. Hell, he came out in a GAS due to how long he had been imprisoned. Buu, despite being strong, was still weakened in this. Pushing this idea forwards, we have the fact that Frieza was told to never seek out Buu or Beerus. Buu absorbed the most powerful beings he could find to boost his powers. Imagine a Buu that was still ramaging, gathering the most powerful warriors of the galaxy inside of him, coming across a Frieza who HAD trained to combat this threat to his empire, and then being EATEN by this monster. Beerus when he did awaken would have one HELL of a battle on his hands. I dunno, maybe I am over thinking things. Who knows? What do you think? |
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| Zero | Mar 12 2017, 12:45 AM Post #5 |
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Building upon this while I feel like it. After the events of the Dragon Ball Super Arc with... Ya know, hang on. Spoiler tagging the hell outta this. Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Zero, Mar 12 2017, 12:58 AM.
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| Atsuko | May 19 2017, 09:16 AM Post #6 |
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Albino Saiyan
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With permission from Eric here, I'm gonna start up my own theory! In the interest of avoiding misunderstandings and potential fights; this is not an attempt to instigate, nor insult. If you feel as though the subject is too heated, then simply don't click the spoiler below. You are free to share opinions and thoughts on it, so long as it's kept civil. I think we can all agree to that, aye? Hand vs Sword: Okay, this sparked some debate and I wanted to address what I think in full by explaining why I think passive Ki Defense alone would not be enough to save your hand if you decided to just punch a sword, even in DBZ Land. So let's examine a few things here. Spoiler: click to toggle Edited by Atsuko, May 19 2017, 09:47 AM.
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