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Day 1 - Darkness Falls
Topic Started: Sep 28 2016, 12:00 AM (6,814 Views)
Toto
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A Hole New World
Merry
Sep 29 2016, 01:21 AM
To answer my own question I think it's a bad idea to lynch Inazuma on Day 1 assuming the player stays inactive until the end of the Day. I don't think a Mafia member will purposely play the inactive game for the risks it carries. There are too many outside reasons a fellow Townie might not log in on the first Day and Town is strongest in numbers. We need numbers. To most likely give Mafia a headstart of 2 kills based on nothing but inactivity is faulty. On Day 2 of complete inactivity though ....that is a different matter as we gave that player a large enough chance to come on.
I feel I answered most of your post already (inadvertently), but I'll elaborate on this.

"I don't think a mafia player would do X" is a pointless and cyclical argument, as it can always be countered with "well what if they did it anyway, expecting everyone to assume a mafia player wouldn't do it." Especially if there are several of them, one is at the very least likely to be highly inactive, if not gone entirely. 48 hours of complete absence, after having checked in pre-game, is already too long a grace period, and shows unfitness to be a good townie. Keeping an inactive player around only gives a false sense of numbers. A completely absent townie is worse than a dead townie, because they will not contribute to the voting pool and we will never know if and when to pursue them as a suspect later down the line, when numbers truly become a matter of life and death.

Haredas
Sep 29 2016, 01:24 AM
This seems like a silly analogy because a game of maffia doesn't work that way we have not "found water" by taking a shot in the dark. This RP post looks like it is trying to relate an obvious foolish action (not drinking found water) to a smart action (not randomly lynching people) faulty logic at best.

Oh, my bearded friend. I am simply tired of explaining it the same old boring way time after time. In a general sense, a day without lynching is a day without progress. Period. We can talk all we want but if wagons don't get formed, if pressure doesn't happen, if flips don't occur, then it's all just thumb-twiddling, waiting for the enemy to kill us. Now, that said, there has been some very... shall we say, interesting conversation so far. But overall, a waste.

Haredas
Sep 29 2016, 01:24 AM
Seriously? You would rather have less townies than we could? I don't see how a lower number of townies is good for anyone but the bad guys.

if the mafia kills me a warning in advance: Don't be swayed by Toto! regardless if he truly is mafia his way of thinking could be our doom.

I am disappointed that a weathered (ho! ho! ho!) fellow such as yourself cannot understand my point of view. We obviously want to preserve our numbers, but numbers are meaningless if we cannot obtain information and sniff out the wicked. As such, the risk of sacrifice on the first day is highly worthwhile in my eyes. I know my view is not the most popular, but one must sometimes broaden their horizons. I do not understand your portent of doom. After the first day, only the evil or the insane would propose a no-lynch. By the time the mafia has had a chance to kill you, my view will have fallen from relevance.
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Boa Sandersonia
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Richie
Sep 28 2016, 07:38 PM
After having a weird nightmare Richie awakes from his nap. He forgot that he is a lion and starts speaking human language (-> excuse to not start every post with 'Roar' anymore).

The claims of both Funkfreed and Sandersonia strike me as rather weird.

If Frunkfreed's claim is true and his role is able to be very helpful at Day 4, how is he supposed to live until then? Mafia surely wouldn't want him to do something harmful then, so he would be an easy target. So what is the reasoning behind claiming to have such a role?

Sandersonia says she has a role where she isn't that more helpful to town than a vanilla townie. But what kind of role could that be? Only thing that comes to mind would be a Fruit Vendor. It could also be an easy excuse for the alleged power role fishing. And by saying she hasn't any worth to town she would also be able to explain why the mafia would kill her early on. Otherwise, I would like to know the death of what kind of power role wouldn't hinder the chances of town in any way?

Not every role is useful. Mine isn't so I'm doing the next best thing; using it to find other townies. And those townies who understand what's going on can focus more on other players.

Laki
Sep 28 2016, 10:55 PM
Keimi
Sep 28 2016, 08:31 PM
Elizabello and Brulee have both posted and therefore don't meet this category.
When did Brûlée post? I don't think I saw that yet. Did I miss it on my read-through?
Ohm
Sep 28 2016, 05:52 PM
Laki : What is your read on Gan Fall and Boa Sandersonia ?
On Gan Fall: I'm not really quite sure what to think of him yet. As others have pointed out, his main, long post here was basically just re-wording what Dorry and Porche said, and agreeing with them. It doesn't necessarily scream "guilty" to me, because with so many people in this game, there are probably many times where other people will say something that you were also thinking before you get the chance, and so you end up just "agreeing with X" because what you wanted to say has already been stated. (I've already had that happen once or twice.) Still, in that case, you could try to further the conversation by asking someone a question or some such, which Gan Fall did not do. So basically, right now, his posts may not have necessarily been helpful, but he's not, like, "top of the suspect list" or anything just for that. Though he's definitely not at the bottom, either.

On Sandersonia: Well, in regards to her posts before the "Shopping List" one, I thought she seemed like one of the more helpful players in terms of getting the discussion going and questioning people. That list, though, was...I don't know what to make of it. Like, several words on it mean something to me (not all of them in context of this game) in terms of what roles might be in the game in general, based on how you could interpret them. And even if one of them did stand out to me, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable posting it here in front of everybody, where I could easily turn myself into a target for townies who mistake me for scum, Mafia who thus believe I have some sort of power, or both. The whole thing seems like some sort of weird test or game to me that I'm not really keen to play.

Also, Inazuma, please post when you have the opportunity. You were the very first to sign in, but iirc, I don't think we've heard from you at all since.

You're playing whether you want to or not. I'm looking for any reaction to my list.

Merry
Sep 29 2016, 01:21 AM

QUESTION FOR EVERYBODY: How does you feel about lynching an inactive player on Day 1. Even if you answered this question before I'd appreciate it if you'd reiterate. As of now, as far as I know, Inazuma is the only player that has not posted yet on Day 1 but we still have a good number of hours left before the end of the Day. Do you think it's beneficial for Town to lynch an inactive player now or give them a chance to come on Day 2? Why?

To answer my own question I think it's a bad idea to lynch Inazuma on Day 1 assuming the player stays inactive until the end of the Day. I don't think a Mafia member will purposely play the inactive game for the risks it carries. There are too many outside reasons a fellow Townie might not log in on the first Day and Town is strongest in numbers. We need numbers. To most likely give Mafia a headstart of 2 kills based on nothing but inactivity is faulty. On Day 2 of complete inactivity though ....that is a different matter as we gave that player a large enough chance to come on.

If Funkfreed is scum who must post a certain amount of times, whose to say another can't post more than a certain amount or can't post at all? That's another reason I want him lynched. To confirm if a posting limit is in play for the Mafia.

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Johnny
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Robert Townie Jr.
Toto
Sep 29 2016, 12:48 AM

Laki may be observant and active, but by no means does that mean anyone can, or should, take for granted that she will be available and willing at the last minute to hammer. Especially if she hasn't confirmed it explicitly. This is wrong, just wrong wrong wrong. Honestly I hadn't even dreamed that you actually intended people to take your words at face value. It sounds like an explanation concocted after-the fact. And I don't think anyone understood your post to mean what you explained.


Again that was the surface meaning of the statement. Not the actual intended meaning, which was the joke. And I still think it made perfect sense in context.
Laki is posting a lot, contributing much to the discussion.
Toto: I do not think I have faith all of you will make it in time to lynch someone at the last hour.
me: Laki will probably show up at least.
Not sure what's so puzzling about that.


Toto
 
Johnny
 
Subtle element, well that was more a wink at Laki herself, and a few players / audience members.

You know, this is basically what I was expecting to hear, maybe with an apology for carelessly posting something vague/misintepretable and meta. That may have quelled my discontent.

So you get that it was a joke but still vote to lynch me... Instead of maybe turning attention to actually suspicious/scummy players?

Toto
 
But you're turning it into so much more...

Well excuse me for arguing against a lynch and scum claim on me. Your reasoning didn't make much sense to me on more than one level, so I thought I'd explain why.

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It has no business being part of the main game, and it's not silly when we went to the effort to play off-forum with different names, sonny. Whether we let our personalities come through in an obvious way, intentionally or not, is irrelevant. And as you can see, some people may pick up on cues sooner than others. I stand by my comment.

Agree to disagree. I don't understand the almost superstitious fear of meta. Like I said before, there is a running gag where people try to point out that specific player on Day 1. That's all this was about. I at least tried to do it subtly.

Bear in mind that the actual player involved understood it as such.

I saw an opportunity for a pun. I took it.


Quote:
 
It isn't about giving a secret wink to your buddy, it's about gloating and seeming clever to people by referencing an identity. I was merely suggesting that your confidence could have come from already knowing beforehand, instead of guessing.

I could understand gloating about something I used my wits to figure out. (Not that this was a gloat instead of the little wink wink nudge nudge that nearly everyone else who got the joke understood it to be). However, gloating about something I knew beforehand? Seems pretty lame man. Seriously, am I the only one this doesn't make any sense to?

Quote:
 
And sorry, but your worst argument is that you can't possibly be mafia because mafia only talk at night and you wouldn't have had a chance to do so yet. As we should all be very well aware, it is frequently the case that the mafia (or any team/faction) is allowed to talk before Day 1 officially starts. This glaring oversight in your highly defensive response worries me... oh I'm too old for this
.

It was my understanding that the mafia convenes after day 1 and that Mafias don't know their teammates till the day ends. What worries you about it?
Quote:
 

Johnny
 
And for someone so concerned about keeping identities secret, you sure wasted no time blabbing out the player's identity I hinted at. In full knowledge that many players didn't catch on to the reference.

Wasted no time? I waited over 12 hours, but people were still responding with confusion and requests for clarification from both you and me. You will forgive me for deciding that clearing things up was necessary.


I was intentionally still keeping it vague, despite not thinking it a big deal if someone knows my guess of who Laki was.
Saying things like that player, My post referenced a player in a subtle way, etc. Still don't see why the identity of the player needed to be spelled out. Especially from you, who made such a big deal about how revealing is so against the spirit of the game. Like wouldnt it be more consistent for you to have said, "Johnny made a subtle reference about a player's identity, whom I choose not to reveal, to at least keep it under wraps from some people."

Bottom line is: it was a guess. Nothing more.
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Johnny
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Robert Townie Jr.
Well its been 20 hours.

Let's see if this gets Inazuma up.

Vote Lynch: Inazuma

Please don't hammer-1 this till the last 8 hours.
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Merry

Toto
Sep 29 2016, 01:09 AM
I say any chance of lynching an evildoer is better than no chance. Even if a mistake is made, there is much to learn from it, and the day will not have been in vain. Forgive my forwardness -- old age makes one prone to dispensing with formalities -- but I would rather lynch the towniest-seeming member of our group than no one at all!


Thanks for the elaboration but I disagree with your reasoning. Losing Town members just for the sake of information is the cyncial gameplay to me. We all want information and like it or not it's going to come Tonight (most likely) with the death of a Townie so if you want a Townie dead so badly well....Mafia has you covered?

Haredas
Sep 29 2016, 01:30 AM
Inazuma posted in the day 0 topic and could just be unable to get online for some reason
Brulee on the other hand logged on, did not post anything and got called out on it. Later she posted a post that was of no help at all and has not been heard from since.


Yes, Inazuma posted on Day 0 but I'm talking about Day 1.

So going off of this I can assume you'd rather be lynching Brulee rather than Inazuma even though Brulee has posted more Today? Doesn't Brulee afford the same benefit of the doubt for not being online for "some reason" that you are giving Inazuma?
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Haredas
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Toto
Sep 29 2016, 01:41 AM
A completely absent townie is worse than a dead townie, because they will not contribute to the voting pool and we will never know if and when to pursue them as a suspect later down the line, when numbers truly become a matter of life and death.
This is a fact we can both agree on.


Toto
Sep 29 2016, 01:41 AM
I am disappointed that a weathered (ho! ho! ho!) fellow such as yourself cannot understand my point of view. We obviously want to preserve our numbers, but numbers are meaningless if we cannot obtain information and sniff out the wicked. As such, the risk of sacrifice on the first day is highly worthwhile in my eyes. I know my view is not the most popular, but one must sometimes broaden their horizons. I do not understand your portent of doom. After the first day, only the evil or the insane would propose a no-lynch. By the time the mafia has had a chance to kill you, my view will have fallen from relevance.

I meant your view of "lynching anyone is better than not lynching" is a dangerous mindset. I also feel like I have a fairly high chance of being struck down by the mafia tonight since I have strongly opossed certain people/ideas and my death would cause lots of finger pointing.

The last thing I want is for me to die to "frame" another player so people say "oh look Haredas died he must be on to something" and jump to the conclusion that since I was vocal in my discussion with you that you must be mafia because if it is a trick boom another townie gets lynched and Mafia keeps getting one more step towards winning.

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Toto
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A Hole New World
Merry
Sep 29 2016, 01:52 AM
Thanks for the elaboration but I disagree with your reasoning. Losing Town members just for the sake of information is the cyncial gameplay to me. We all want information and like it or not it's going to come Tonight (most likely) with the death of a Townie so if you want a Townie dead so badly well....Mafia has you covered?

It is true, we will likely see a flip in the morning. Though there are a number or reasons we might not (protection roles, role blocking, you name it). But, even assuming this is guaranteed, the problem is it all happens behind the scenes. The mafia have the luxury of selecting the target whose flip will least benefit the town, and there is no wagon building, no vote trail to follow, no reactions from various players to analyze. It is not the same thing.
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Haredas
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Merry
Sep 29 2016, 01:52 AM
Yes, Inazuma posted on Day 0 but I'm talking about Day 1.

So going off of this I can assume you'd rather be lynching Brulee rather than Inazuma even though Brulee has posted more Today? Doesn't Brulee afford the same benefit of the doubt for not being online for "some reason" that you are giving Inazuma?

Look at Brulee's post and consider the fact that they were lurking around and when we called them on it didn't say "oh I was busy sorry" or anything like that. If Inazuma shows up and pretend that being absent isn't something wrong that will make me suspect him.

but seriously I don't see any reason why someone who is busy AND has posted after we have called them out on it but has given no reasoning for the lurking
could be someone with our best interests in mind.

"Sorry I was busy at work"
"Sorry my internet was down"
"sorry I was in the hospital"
"sorry my dog died"
anything like that would have been better than the post they gave.
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Johnny
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Robert Townie Jr.
Sorry to keep beating this dead horse, but let me turn this around to you Toto.

Besides a joke, what possible benefit could I have had in "exposing" a player's identity? In any role/alignment whatsoever?

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Haredas
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Elizabello II
Sep 28 2016, 11:03 PM
Charlotte Brûlée
Sep 28 2016, 05:12 AM
A new challenger arises!
Howdy :)
Hopefully i can make myself useful :P
@ Laki: quoted for reference. It's the only post so far.

no explanation given.
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