| Day 5 - A Moment of Silence | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 9 2016, 05:07 PM (1,985 Views) | |
| Domino | Oct 11 2016, 09:54 AM Post #121 |
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With 11 players left, it takes 6 to lynch. Keimi (4): Laki, Toto, Dorry, Merry Richie (1): Johnny Elizabello II (1): Keimi Ohm (2): Elizabello II, Richie Not voting (3): Haredas, Ohm, Porsche. 7 hours left~ |
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| Elizabello II | Oct 11 2016, 10:00 AM Post #122 |
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Richie - what do you think of Laki? |
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| Richie | Oct 11 2016, 10:15 AM Post #123 |
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In the beginning she was or tried to be one of the leading roles, making more and long posts about the situation. Since then however she began to become more inactive and seemed less helpful. Makes me a little bot wary of her, but she also hasn't displayed very mafia-esque behaviour imo. But she definitely shouldn't be overlooked, when it comes to possible suspects. |
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| Laki | Oct 11 2016, 11:50 AM Post #124 |
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Ahh, I knew I was forgetting something before. I forgot to address this from Day 2. My bad. It's pretty simple: I wasn't suspicious of you just because of your question. I was already suspicious of you before that, from Day 1 and Day 2. It's as you said, you and Sandersonia both asked similar questions. Difference is, I wasn't really suspicious of her, and I was of you, which is why I called you out. The truth is, I didn't really actively pursue my suspicions of you, because at the time, it was more of, I had a gut feeling Sonia was Townie, and felt kind of uncomfortable about you. That's not really something that you can build a case around, and it's not exactly a highly-encouraged playstyle in Mafia (going with your gut), so I didn't do anything about that until then (the interrogation of Gan Fall). In hindsight, I realize that you were doing something similar to Sonia, a trap. But at the time, as I've said somewhere else that I'm not going to go digging through trying to find because it's 6 AM right now, I was wondering if you were the one who slipped up there instead of me. The difference was, Sonia (who, again, I already thought was innocent) used a kind of over-the-top trap, asking if the message was prefaced with "Hi Townie or Hello Townie" or something like that. Honestly, if you people had been interrogating me and I were Mafia, I would have almost certainly gotten that trick question right anyway and said "none of the above", because I've literally never seen a PM being prefaced that way and didn't even know that was a thing. But Gan Fall answered that with something kind of weird (the "Nice Gauntlets" thing), which was almost certainly a wrong answer. You, on the other hand? You asked him a question that wasn't over-the-top at all because the win conditions often are stated in PMs, and in fact this was the first time I've played that that wasn't the case. Moreover, he gave the right answer to that question (that the win condition isn't stated in the townie PM's, which, basing it off of my Townie PM, is absolutely true), and then your reply was that he just proved he wasn't third party and was straight-up Mafia. I know now what you meant by that: that you already were sure he was scum and were just trying to figure out which scum he was, Mafia or 3rd party. At the time, though, I misunderstood it as you saying that his answer (none of the above) proved he was Mafia. That's why I spoke out, because I was wondering if you were a Mafia who incorrectly assumed that there was a win condition stated in town PMs. I was pretty sure about Gan Fall, which is why I said that even after I pointed out the truth, it wasn't enough for me to change my vote. But if, on the off-chance that he was actually innocent and you were a Mafia trying to use that to frame him, I wanted me calling you out on the wording to be written down somewhere so it could be used as evidence. A "just in case" scenario, you could say. I will also again point out, as I already did, that I didn't say anything about your question until after Gan Fall answered it. In fact, I'm pretty sure I copied my post and refreshed before posting, so I even saw your post asking the question before I made mine immediately afterward. I didn't say anything until after Gan Fall answered, and you answered his answer. In fact, your answer to his answer was the reason I ever even said anything at alll. And I guess I should reaffirm that I'm saying I was suspicious of you, in the past tense. Between you apparently knowing that the win conditions were not, in fact, in the PMs (I suppose you could be a Mafia, who I think we established didn't have them either, and were guessing that the townies also did not, but that's ballsy), you being the one to call Gan Fall out immediately, and you also expressing suspicion of Aphelandra quite early on, my suspicion of you has pretty much plummeted since that time. You're not on the level of Dorry and, to a slightly lesser extent, Johnny for me innocence-wise, but you're definitely among the least-suspicious players to me right now. Yeah, honestly, I'm aware of how I must look by now. Looking back on my general uselessness in this game so far, despite my efforts to the contrary, I'm kind of surprised that I haven't already garnered more suspicion. I guess people have good gut instincts. Not gonna lie, my "flying-under-the-radar"-ness, coming from me not being around as much lately, is partially from laziness (my burnout right now is pretty bad, much more than I realized), partially from time constraints, and partially from frustration that, at this point, I don't really have any good ideas. The major suspect I had has basically been proven to be innocent, other people had already pointed out suspicious stuff about other players by the time I was able to get there and post (Gan Fall being a major example), so I looked like I was bandwagoning, and many of the people I was most suspicious of in the first few days are now either dead already, basically proven innocent, or I've since become less suspicious of them (Toto). Which leaves me with...probably needing to go through and freakin' read everything again to see if I can find something different. Have to admit I'm struggling with the "get off your ass and do it" part of that plan. |
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| Laki | Oct 11 2016, 11:57 AM Post #125 |
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Guess I'll try address this next. A. I think I remember that? Don't remember which specific instances you mean about what. But I don't think me being helpful to someone who turned out to be a Mafia member (which I didn't know at the time) is really gonna prove anything for you one way or the other. Being helpful to people and answering their questions when I can is a pretty natural, heavily-ingrained reflex for me, to the point that I have to actively suppress it when I specifically don't want to do so. Those were the first couple of days, when a lot of new players are still figuring things out, so I was simply trying to be helpful as usual. I could try to come up with some kind of justification for why that's a townie thing to do, but I don't feel like bothering, because that's all it was: helpfulness. I doubt I would have acted any differently than that if I were Mafia, either. B. With Funkfreed, I wasn't sure whether to be suspicious of him on Day 1 or not, so I did call him out on things that I didn't think were smart for him to say. At least part of my behavior towards him was from pretty much knowing from the beginning who he is and what his playstyle is like, and knowing that his method of putting up a neon sign saying "HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT I HAVE A ROLE BUT I'M NOT GONNA SHARE IT YET" was something he's done before and so wasn't necessarily scummy behavior from him. I wanted to keep an eye on him, but I really didn't want to lynch him on Day 1 yet, wanting to see if he'd survive the Night and what he'd do next if he did. With Dorry, I wasn't really suspicious of him until the end of Day 1, when Elizabello pointed out some of his shady behavior, and when I went back to take a closer look, and read everything together, I also thought he was suspicious, hence my long Day 2 post about it. With Funkfreed on Day 2? Well, that goes back to what I told Toto above about having a gut feeling about Sandersonia. She'd pretty strongly implied that she was the Fruit Vendor, I was pretty inclined to believe her, because gut feeling, even though that's not really a good method for this game, blah blah blah. Basically, in spite of some of her weird behavior, I had a feeling she was Town with just a different approach than the rest of us (again, probably helped by me being pretty sure of who she is), and she went from being super-ridiculously suspicious of and aggressively interrogative towards Funkfreed on Day 1, to treating him the exact opposite on Day 2. That seemed like really weird behavior for a Mafia player to me, which made me further believe she was Town, and seeing how she suddenly was convinced that Funkfreed was okay on Day 2 based on whatever their powers had apparently done on Night 1, he dropped pretty far down on my suspect list, too. Just as Dorry did when, much later, he was vouched for in two different ways. C. Sigh, probably why I need to reread eventually, since I don't really remember this much at all. But, it was Day 1, we had some confusing shit about a Silencer, and we had no idea where it came from, so yeah, from what I do remember, I was focusing on a third party because it was a relevant concern. But I certainly wasn't focusing only on that. I called out Inazuma (despite having no idea what he was at the time) for his inefficient wording. As stated above, I called out Funkfreed for his seemingly-suicidal play. And at the end of the Day, when Elizabello pointed out some stuff about Dorry, I mentioned "Y'know, you've got a point on that, I'll look at it again tomorrow." In other words, I was all over the place, trying to point out stuff I saw, and I didn't have a solid Mafia suspect, which is fairly common for Day 1. Day 2, though? I had extremely ample opportunity to stay focused on that third party if I'd wanted to, what with the whole Nero vs Inazuma fight and Nero straight-up saying he'd found a third party, but if you recall, I specifically eschewed that argument, and stuck with scum-hunting for Mafia, which most of us agreed was more important, and I thought I'd found one. When there was a very good reason to believe that we'd found another third party--who would also have been my enemy if I were Mafia, and potentially a very dangerous one for all I knew--I don't know why Mafia-me would have passed up that chance to make a case against him, and instead would make one against a townie I would have known was innocent, whom the majority of players were not suspicious of and who was extremely non-threatening towards the Mafia. There's really a leap in logic there. The actual truth, that I'm a townie who thought I had a Mafia pegged and was trying to convince my fellow townies of such, while choosing to focus on the Mafia over a third party, makes more sense, because that's exactly what happened. |
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| Haredas | Oct 11 2016, 11:57 AM Post #126 |
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My main goal has been for my part in the game to be to get us all to think and grow as players (myself included) so I am glad. Despite our clash on day 1 we might be similar than I would have thought. Don't have time to make a large post but a) I am not latching onto any narrative I have always had trouble trying to figure out what you are up to. the whole game b) you might have been accused of lurking but not from me, since you post too much for me to consider you a lurker. I also tend to leave myself in whatever the main day thread is and come by and refresh it every 20 mins or so to see if there are new posts but I have yet to see that as an argument against myself. c) "Desperate play?" hehehe I don't know where you could have gotten the idea I am desperate, I have managed to stay low on the scum radar thus far. I don't want to distract with a "Merry vs Haredas" sideshow but I will state this: I can assure everyone that it is in the best interest of both factions to keep me alive. Lynching me would put the mafia at an advantage, especially if there are 3 mafia remaining. However, if the mafia night kills me at this point unless the town is extremely bad and plays horrible, town will likely have an easy win. If you try to roleblock me before the kill I will have the last laugh. If the mafia reacts to these taunts and kills me they are seriously the sloppiest mafia I have seen. will vote after I see if there are new posts |
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| Porsche | Oct 11 2016, 12:00 PM Post #127 |
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Okay first of all, I'm very wary of what is happening to the Keimi wagon here. There seemed to be a general consensus that she was bad for Town, also among confirmed Townies or people who seem more Townish to me. But now I see all this backpedaling and and relativising... is this people covering for themselves in case Keimi flips Town after all? Her scumbuddies hoping to still avoid her lynch? I'm especially looking at Toto here. One of your first posts in the Day was a vote for Keimi, and you said she was one of your main suspects.Then, after 3 other wagons started, you backpedaled and said she didn't look as scummy to you as she did before. But now you're saying "eh, I don't really want to lynch her but I guess it's the only option"? We all know you'd rather lynch one of your own camels than No Lynch, but at this point in the game I expect that if you vote for a lynch, you stand behind it. Your behaviour this last Day has been raising a lot of red flags with me, ossan. Now I have been rereading and I have a lot to say, but I'll start with Keimi since she is the most urgent case here. Looking at her post count alone, the numbers drop dramatically after the first Day, where she was one of the most active players. Day 1 she mostly posts a lot of filler. She also asks if others think Mafia members might roleplay to hide their scumminess. She's calling out other players (like then-missing Brûlée) to post. Then when Funkfreed and Sandersonia (soft)claim, she warns that it's too early in the game to start claiming. Then she pressure votes Elizabello, and unvotes when he posts. Then she says she noticed Inazuma was missing, but didn't say anything, and thanks others for pointing it out? Her final post of the Day says she doesn't understand why people are suspecting Inazuma, and says she is for a No Lynch that day. On Day 2 she has 3 posts. Two of them discuss the setup and the possibility of there being a Third Party. The last one is in the middle of the Gan Fall festival, urging people to stop voting until everyone has checked in, to see if anyone else was silenced. Day 3 - one post. Commenting on the snake motive in the Mafia kills, and asking Nero if he has a guilty report. Day 4 - 0 posts. Day 5 - The wagon/general suspicion on her picks up, so she is forced to answer. She claims she has been busy, and that she never voted because she never felt like her vote was critical. "The two mafia lynches were extremely easy busing opportunities, so saying I'm mafia because I didn't vote for them is silly." - Keimi True, but like I said, this doesn't give her automatic Town credit. One could argue that if she did vote, people might suspect her for jumping at such an easy bussing opportunity; you can look at it a few different ways. In any case, Keimi's defense was that even though she was inactive, she wasn't entirely unproductive. But rereading, that's obviously not true. She has not once mentioned a suspect, not once voted for anyone - except for Elizabello as a pressure vote - and rarely ever commented about another player's behaviour. Most of her posts are either filler or talking/asking about game mechanics. I am quite convinced she is scum and just hiding behind inactivity. She could also be Third Party, I'd think a Pacifist if it wasn't for that one vote D1, which could explain her asking about Third Parties when Ohm mentioned them. In any case, Keimi is harmful to the Town. And at this point I want to see her flip, so that certain people who voted for her (or didn't), have to answer to their actions. (insert vote lynch) I'll vote her in a minute, I'm just going to post my thoughts on other players first so I can be sure to get that out here before Day end. |
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| Haredas | Oct 11 2016, 12:01 PM Post #128 |
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I seriously hope Laki doesn't get cut short because I intend to read your stuff in detail however I am out of time I must head out to work I believe there are far better options but this seems the only one. vote lynch: Keimi if we are lucky she flips scum if not at least we only lose a vanilla townie. |
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| Richie | Oct 11 2016, 12:04 PM Post #129 |
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Oh boy, Keimi at L-1 now and Porsche said she wants to vote in a second...depending on what happens, this could seem coordinated again. |
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| Laki | Oct 11 2016, 12:05 PM Post #130 |
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D. and G. See my response to Toto. E. This one's pretty easy. I was pushing for a Dorry lynch because, at the time, I found his behavior suspicious and sincerely thought he was one of the bad guys. I reiterated why that is. But, once I heard from Brûlée about what Dorry really is, I realized that, bar her lying, I was probably wrong in my suspicions. And Funkfreed's flip pretty much confirmed that. Trust me, I can't say I'm thrilled that I spent the amount of time I did making a case about someone who turned out to be on my side all along. That, along with the realization that I've pretty much accomplished nothing this whole game even though I really did want to be helpful, was honestly demoralizing and frustrating, which didn't help my already-not-great focus level in this game. Also, something else to say about that: this probably isn't the most savory defense ever, but I can promise you, with how lazy I've been during this game, I would not have gone through all that effort, compiling all of that evidence (or, what I saw at the time as being evidence) against Dorry if I hadn't genuinely thought that he was Mafia. There's just no way I would have put that much work into trying to frame an innocent townie. Nobody was suspicious of me back then, I had no reason to build this huge case against a townie if I were Mafia, which risked putting me way too much in the spotlight. I did it because I was exactly what I appeared to be, a townie trying to help the town. But, we saw how well that went. F. Yeah, I know this one hasn't really looked the best for me. As I said to my first quote of yours, bad timing. With Gan Fall, someone else was there to call him out, and by the time I arrived, he'd already posted it and been called out, iirc. So I joined that train because it seemed like the most blatant thing ever, because even if we were somehow wrong about Gan Fall, and it was Toto or somebody trying to frame him (as I was keeping on the backburner in my brain, just in case, as already stated), we had every justification to be suspicious of him. If I'd stuck with Dorry out of stubbornness, if I hadn't helped lynch someone who seemed so glaringly obvious like that (whom I agreed was shady as all-get-out), when he ended up flipping Mafia, I would have pretty much felt like the biggest dumbass ever. So I didn't even have to think about whether I should ditch my current, stagnant wagon and go with a very obvious one that got a lot of traction very quickly (before I even got there) because it seemed so obvious. The answer was clearly "Yes." With Aphelandra, I don't think it matters what order you were on with that train. She was pretty much confirmed Mafia, and as soon as I saw that, I voted to lynch her, because as a townie who wants to kill Mafia, why wouldn't I vote for someone I know is Mafia? I just happened to not be the first person to arrive to show up and do it. And hell, if I were Mafia myself, I still probably would have done the same thing. At that point, you really have no choice but to bus your pals, so as I said, anybody in any order on that wagon could be her scumbuddies. So again, with that, not gonna give a more complicated explanation when the truth is simple and straightforward. It was about timing. Past 6 AM, have to wake up in an hour and a half, so I'm going to bed. I'll try to come back before Day's end if at all possible (if you all don't end it early on me again). |
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9:06 PM Jul 11