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| Bioshock and God; "Moral dilemna's" in video games. | |
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| Topic Started: 3 Jul 2009, 01:06 PM (240 Views) | |
| Afalstein | 3 Jul 2009, 01:06 PM Post #1 |
Mountain Gnome
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So recently got a version of Fable. I know it's as old as the hills, but I've always wanted to get it and I finally got a computer and money for it. Fable, back in the day, was famous for the multitude of choices you could make, especially moral choices. Most of the game is dominated by choices you can make between being "good" and being "evil." You can kill villagers or rescue them. You can get married, go to brothels, you can even kill your wife. The end is like this final decision you have between ultimate power or goodness. It's a pretty cool game. So far I've only played the good side, because even in the virtual world I have problems with being evil. I'm kinda curious as to what the evil side is like though. I want to see how your wife reacts if you beat her, what happens if you play as an assassin, wierd stuff like that. And that side of me kinda disturbs me. I mean, okay, it's not real, but I really shouldn't want to try that stuff out. So that got me thinking about other video games. I remember one of the big problems some people had with "The Sims" when it came out was the potential to abuse your characters. Like you could put them in a house without a bathroom and watch them writhe in agony. Or you could make parents so bad they would beat their kids. Stuff like that. I've been looking at this famous "Bioshock" game recently. If you don't know what it's about, it's like this dystopian underwater city, where everyone is dying of this drug that gives you superpowers. There are these little girls running around, called "Little Sisters" that gather the drugs, and one of the best ways to get the drug is by killing these little girls. The game makers apparently had the moral dilemna very much in mind when they made the game, and wanted to test players to see how far they would go to be powerful. I think that's one of the themes of the game, actually, how the powerful often dominate the weak and helpless. You get two different endings, depending on whether you killed any of these girls or not. So I was wondering: What do we think of this? On the one hand, I suppose it's good to recognize that there are such moral issues and force people to confront them. And it's also useful to show the benefits of being a "good character," especially when you are given a choice about it. That way, the happy ending isn't just generic, it's something that proceeds from your actions. But on the other hand, these things beg for abuse. Like I said, on Fable, I'm already curious to see what it would be like to kill my wife or something. People on Bioshock talk about how they almost like the evil ending better. Or at least are curious to see what it's like. The moral decisions are a little trivialized (after all, its just a video game) and made somewhat light of. And just as the character can become an active participant in the morality of his character, he also becomes active in the cruelty of his character. It's maybe a little strange for me to worry about these things--none of these gamers going to run around killing little girls anytime soon--but I just wonder about how they affect people's worldviews. And I know gaming and game design is a big thing on here, so I thought I should ask. Anyway. Any thoughts? |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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| kiernan36 | 3 Jul 2009, 04:26 PM Post #2 |
some guy you've never met and probably don't want to
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i have a thought. what is the evil side? to me the evil side is an escape from reality and a stress reliever. in the game oblivion, you can join the good side, like the fighters guild, the blades, arena, etc. but you can also be evil and join bad factions like the dark brotherhood or the theives guild. in any virtual world, i almost always choose the evil side. but that is only because i live with my sister and i end up accumulating stress. but in real life, dont do that kind of thing. if you actually want to do it, seek the help of a profesional. for example, in oblivion, if you throw yourself off of dive rock, you die and see your body bend in ways it shouldn't. but dont commit suicide in real life. you can't just restart the game. i haven't played fable, sims, or bioshock, but i want to. the moral of the story,"what happens in the game, stays in the game." "and on youtube"
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| Luemas | 3 Jul 2009, 05:31 PM Post #3 |
All ur Walrus R belong to Me
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Disturbing... But, let's say if you experience to much exposure to the dark side, it seems less bad, you know? I don't know... |
YOU MADE ME   | |
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| ARAZEC | 3 Jul 2009, 09:48 PM Post #4 |
This Person Has No Life
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desensitization is interesting the truth lies in the facts-which can only come from research-which wont be undertaken unbiased by anyone connected with marketing of lucrative concepts-unless of course if bad press warrants short PR focused studies. i think its the same as pornography in the way that curiosity can be acted upon thus opening your mind to ways it would be better off not thinking. i suspect Afalstein -you already know the answer to this one yourself for yourself personally but found it opened an interesting dilema we all face. what thoughts are you holding in your mind ? those of christs heart? another question.... what if i am married and having a "virtual" affair in a make beleive world on the internet is this adultery? |
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OTTOR never BE SORRY | |
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| Luemas | 3 Jul 2009, 10:08 PM Post #5 |
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All ur Walrus R belong to Me
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Cybering is pathetic. And yes. Which is weird. And gross. And -SQUIRREL! |
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YOU MADE ME | |
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| ARAZEC | 3 Jul 2009, 10:17 PM Post #6 |
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This Person Has No Life
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o.k what about killing things on games then? |
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OTTOR never BE SORRY | |
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| Afalstein | 4 Jul 2009, 12:47 PM Post #7 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Hm. A point. I wouldn't consider a virtual relationship to conflict with your marriage, though I would wonder why you would want a virtual relationship when you have a real one. So it is perhaps unwise, though not necessarily wrong. Simply killing people in video games I have no problem with. Perhaps a result of my old-fashioned violent tendencies, but I have no problem hacking zombies or bandits apart. Especially if they're attacking me. It you correspond this to the real world, I suppose you could say I have no problem with soldiers attacking/killing terrorists. But that may be a bit much all at once. Yeah, I have my own opinion. I think it unwise, though perhaps intruiging. It just tempts people to take moral decisions lightly and desensitizes them to morality in general. From a game design perspective, it's interesting that they address such issues, but from the player's point of view, it does kinda desensitize them. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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 Cameron
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4 Jul 2009, 03:37 PM Post #8 |
Administratinator
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To some degree this is a personal decision. Different people are affected differently by games. For some, it's a way to release pressures. For others, it sets patterns of thinking. I think this is one of those issues that each person has to decide for himself. Or herself if that person is female and playing a videogame, which I've heard happens but am not sure if I believe. Video games can be more dangerous than most media because they're immersive. It's one thing to watch someone on TV do some horrible thing. It's another to do it yourself, virtually. And these things can crop up in your life. I don't believe that violent games turn people into serial killers. The serial killers are attracted to violent video games because those games fit with their personality. However, violent video games can make a person a bit less caring, a bit more prone to lashing out, a bit more tolerant of others being violent, all without that person even noticing. I've dealt with that myself. When I was younger, I refused to play Black and White because I didn't believe it was a good idea. Now that I'm older I feel I'm able to handle it better. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. |
Note that Cameron is not Patrick and does not run Godlimations.
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| Luemas | 4 Jul 2009, 04:01 PM Post #9 |
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All ur Walrus R belong to Me
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So maybe it's not video games that make people bad, but people that make bad video games. Gun's don't kill people, Chuck Norris kills people. |
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YOU MADE ME | |
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| cheesebug | 4 Jul 2009, 05:11 PM Post #10 |
Ultimate Threadkiller
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lol theres and add at the bottom of the page saying sex offender registry find sex offenders in your neighborhood NOW sorry just felt like sharing. carry on. |
 At Wendy's one day... My bud to cashier: Hey can I have some ranch? (dude hands her some ranch packets) Me-OH THANK YOU ALMIGHTY RANCH GIVER! My mother to my bro-You need to find a nice girl and settle down. An Italian girl! And no Sicilians! If I find out you’re marrying a Sicilian I’ll beat you to death with my slippers! VOT FOUR CHEESAY, SHEES GUD AT SPELING! | |
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| ARAZEC | 4 Jul 2009, 05:21 PM Post #11 |
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This Person Has No Life
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funny here are some extracts from my acting notes..... when you applying the principles of acting firstly we FEEL (evil emotions from slaying little girls) read bellow from my notes ..... When you do things like feeling emotion and thinking objective you don't even have to think about doing it. It all becomes subliminal in your acting. Don't be conscious of all the principles of acting once you learn them. Trust your body, your body can do many things for you. Your body remembers. Don't think dialogue, think objective. Thinking objective saves you from making a lot of mistakes. In character forget words, think objective. Serve the authors intention. Think objective, the body knows what to do. sub.lim.i.nal Psychlogical existing or operating below the threshold of consciousness; being or employing stimuli insufficiently intense to produce a discrete sensation but often being or designed to be intense enough to influence the mental processes or the behavior of the individual. well thats the end of the notes but i want to tell you -its AMAZING how you wire your body through repitition to not only "remember" behaviour but to behave on autopilot. it all sounds a bit airy fairy untill i eventually did a few learnt (after much practise) audition monologes using the feel,objective,do. one of them is dramatic i will testify I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO AVOID REACTING in BOTH EMOTION AND BEHAVIOUR in the same circumstance,no way just cannot help it now. think of the video games some people play? killing little girls for power ? |
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OTTOR never BE SORRY | |
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| Luemas | 4 Jul 2009, 07:17 PM Post #12 |
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All ur Walrus R belong to Me
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Yeah... whenever I act, I don't always stick with the script but.... IMPROV! Of course this makes me also look like an idiot alot, but hey! Nothing new. |
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YOU MADE ME | |
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| ARAZEC | 4 Jul 2009, 07:24 PM Post #13 |
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This Person Has No Life
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no ! you only look like an idiot when you do the wrong thing eg are sly and go behind ppls backs |
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OTTOR never BE SORRY | |
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| Afalstein | 4 Jul 2009, 09:31 PM Post #14 |
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Mountain Gnome
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Well, to some extent everyone acts simply in their daily walk. "Preparing a face to meet the faces that we meet" and all that sort of thing. How many people see the real you? Do YOU know the real you? Plato's "know Thyself" ideal fits in here. The danger in acting (and here in games) is allowing a completely virtual persona to become your daily persona. To my mind, that's why a lot of actors are as messed up as they are, because they keep switching personas and they have no idea who they really are. Okay. Side rant there. Cameron, I think I can agree with you on the thing with it depending on who you are. After all, my parents didn't let me watch certain movies until I had reached a certain age. It's largely the same principle. You wait until you have the responsibility to handle said games and the worldview they encourage. |
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"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke | |
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Cameron
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6 Jul 2009, 12:34 AM Post #15 |
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Administratinator
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One other thing. As a teenager, you are setting the pattern for the person you will be for the rest of your life. It gets much harder to change yourself when you get older. |
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Note that Cameron is not Patrick and does not run Godlimations.
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