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Internet Pornography; A sin that needs to be talked about
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2009, 09:13 PM (12,557 Views)
conradw
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Just for the record, I am of the opposite view: consumption of pornography does not have detrimental effects. I'm happy to accept that I may be somewhat biased in my interpretation, but I also believe that there is sufficient evidence to make my point of view tenable.
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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So you admit you view porn then? Or have atleast?
But then, how are you to know you aren't the exception to the rule?
I've heard more than two accounts of people who have said porn is bad.
3:1 ratio is all i've seen so far.
Edited by Luemas, 23 Jan 2010, 09:44 PM.
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Deleted User
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O.k
i dont need to convince you but hopefully if 1 person reads anything written here warning againest pornography it"ll be worth being up againest all the academic buliemia.....

alas its the debate section can we even agree on a definition of pornography.....???

eg-a husbands foot fetish making the latest footwear catalogue sexually explicit material

and saying porn will rot your insides even quicker than heroin does not mean i have to demonstrate it has the same detremental effects in the same magnitude.
I didnt say in what respects they are alike apart from rotting your insides which you could argue is what a beneficial gut bacteria does.....

Now as for evidence testimonil, experimental, social,clinical evidence blah,blah whats the criteria we are excepting in relation to what we agree on here?-i know you Concolor have previously put such strict restrictions and used absurd examples in relation to the weight testimonil evidence holds...










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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw:
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consumption of pornography does not have detrimental effects. I'm happy to accept that I may be somewhat biased in my interpretation, but I also believe that there is sufficient evidence to make my point of view tenable.
If I'm not mistaking, that is a positive statement. You need to demonstrate that porn does not have detrimental effects in the same way that ARAZEC has to back up her positive statement that porn has detrimental effects. This will be highly interesting :)

@Luemas: I have heard at least 53 people saying porn is great. What people say about porn being good or bad does not necessarily have anything to do with whether porn actually IS good or bad. If you did a street-survey in the year 1346 as to whether to earth was round or flat, your conclusion would be that the earth is flat. Reality is found by investigating evidence, not by taking votes.

@ARAZEC:
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academic buliemia
What does that mean?
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can we even agree on a definition of pornography.....???
YES!! Glorious victory! The discussion is moving into a rational discourse. Perhaps we can finally investigate this subject thoroughly :D

Here is my suggestion for a definition of porn: "Material that is intended to stimulate the visual and auditory senses in order to lead to sexual arousal"
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and saying porn will rot your insides even quicker than heroin does not mean i have to demonstrate it has the same detremental effects in the same magnitude.
I didnt say in what respects they are alike apart from rotting your insides which you could argue is what a beneficial gut bacteria does.....
Uh, so you are saying that just like beneficial gut bacteria contributes to our health and well-being, so does porn and heroin? I don't think you mean that. Also, beneficial gut bacteria do not rot our insides, they process food that happens to be in our intestines. If they started degrading our intestines they would no longer be been beneficial gut bacteria.

But let's not get stuck on what you've said, and rather try to clarify what you mean. If you think porn has only detrimental effects, please explain what kind of effects these are and supply evidence that this is really the case.
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Now as for evidence testimonil, experimental, social,clinical evidence blah,blah whats the criteria we are excepting in relation to what we agree on here?
All sorts of scientific, peer reviewed evidence would be great. Exactly what kinds depend on what effects you claim porn to have. If you say that porn has detrimental effects on a persons health, clinical studies are required to back this up. If you say it has detrimental effects on society, social studies would be most fitting. If you say that pornographic material is surrounded by an aura of evil that slowly kills all life, then a biologic study of different organisms lifetimes dependent on exposure to porn would be fitting.

As we are discussing what effects porn actually HAS, not what people think or feel about porn, opinion polls are not interesting in this case. Anecdotal evidence has no use outside making the storyteller seem funny at dinner-parties, so that is not interesting in this case either.
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Deleted User
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Quote:
 
Here is my suggestion for a definition of porn: "Material that is intended to stimulate the visual and auditory senses in order to lead to sexual arousal"


you mean like a bikini?
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Good point, how about: "Printed or recorded media that is intended to stimulate the visual and auditory senses in order to lead to sexual arousal"
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Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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mmmm .....thats excluding deaf and blind people :(
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Nope, printed is for the deaf and recorded is for the blind.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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oh

so a wifes sms to her husband describing what she wants him to do for her sexually when they hit the sack would be pornography under this definition?
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Yes
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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http://www.aanemfoundation.org/pdffiles/evidenceBasedMed.pdf

in evidence based medicine, we have 4 different classes of evidence (which are themselves subdivided into other groups). The link above explains them under the section about therapy - and if cutting porn out of your life is supposed to be a good thing, then we can reasonably say that calling it therapy is a appropriate (the other choice is diagnostic, which porn or the lack there of is not).

Personal testimony comes under 'case report' or 'expert opinion' and at best counts as class four evidence because it is uncontrolled in the scientific sense of the word.

And Concolor, I would say yes, what I said is close enough to a positive statement that I will indeed have to defend it. I don't think it is necessarily a positive statement reading it over again, but in any case, I meant it as one.
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Deleted User
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well the definition isnt set yet -if its a yes to my scenario then we are missimg the essence of Pornography and we will be talking right past each other in this debate.and testimony of witnesses should have equal validity or points etc...in our debate.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
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-if its a yes to my scenario then we are missimg the essence of Pornography
Not if the essence of pornography is something that's meant to cause sexual arousal.

Be careful not to add any value-judgements into the definition, because then the whole discussion will be moot. Example:

If I don't like apples I could say that the essence of apples is "evilness". By defining the apples as evil I simply skip the whole discussion of weather apples are good or bad, and start with the conclusion I want to arrive at. This "argument" is then so circular that it forms a dot rather than a circle. Naturally, when discussing whether something is beneficial or not, a judgement of the beneficialness (or an indirect judgment, such as "good" or "bad") can not be used.

What definition of porn would you find most fitting?
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and testimony of witnesses should have equal validity or points etc...in our debate.
Please explain why you think anecdotal evidence should have anything to do in a rational discussion.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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because UNLIKE anecdotal evidence the reliability of accounts of personal experience is normally capable of assessment for legal proceedings and is NOT heresy

in a RATIONAL disscussion with the purpose to discover the truths about Pornography and its effects it would miss the parts that effect people by not hearing from people??!! :blink:

good or bad is too subjective harmfull or unharmfull isnt perfect but important dont you think?



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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
Quote:
 
in a RATIONAL disscussion with the purpose to discover the truths about Pornography and its effects it would miss the parts that effect people by not hearing from people??!!
There are different ways of hearing from people. If we wanted to find out what people THINK about porn, then it would me most interesting to gather testimonials and do opinion polls. But we are not interested in opinions right now. We are interested in whether or not porn actually HAS any detrimental effects, what types of porn these effects are limited to and to what degree these effects might be detrimental.

In that case, hearing subjective stories from a few individuals is not very helpful. The picture one gets from this will be entirely dependent on who you pick and what opinions they have. However, we can get all the information we need about how the use of porn effects people by finding controlled scientific social studies, where individual subjectivity is less obstructive due to a larger number of people investigated and controls used in the study.
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good or bad is too subjective harmfull or unharmfull isnt perfect but important dont you think?
Well yes, that is what we are trying to find out. It is therefore important not to start out by simply assuming (in our definition or otherwise) that porn is either harmful, neutral or beneficial before we actually investigate. It is natural to have an opinion as to which of these one suspects that the facts will point to, but that is in no way relevant to the outcome of a properly conducted research.

Also:
What is your suggestion for a definition of porn?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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