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Internet Pornography; A sin that needs to be talked about
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2009, 09:13 PM (12,556 Views)
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all the ones you had but theres problems even the lastt one what a person is deaF anD BLIND?
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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All of the other senses would probably require the real thing or close to it.
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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If you're blind and deaf, I'm not sure that lack of porn is your biggest problem. Anyway, it's not porn's fault that not everyone are able to enjoy porn. The definition of "flying like a bird" is to use wings to keep your body steadily soaring through the air. This means that by this definition, penguins can't fly, which is too bad really - but that's life. Not everyone can fly. and not everyone can enjoy porn. It's a hard life, but we get by somehow :)

Please supply your suggestion for a definition of porn.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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:blink: .....Im asking for a stay on proceedings for the definition suggestion......

its Australia Day tommorrow

public holiday>

nuff said

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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: Take your time. But I must say I find it puzzling that you have such strong opinions about a subject, when you need a week just to figure out what you think the subject is.

This may sound sassy, but it is only slightly so.
Edited by Concolor, 25 Jan 2010, 03:07 PM.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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Admittedly, to make the statement I did, I would also need to give working definition of pornography.

I'm going to be really relaxed about it though. Sorry, but I think I can defend my statement with just about any definition of porn.

Also, I find it interesting to debate where the line between porn, art, erotica, anatomical diagrams... etc lies. Where do you think it belongs?
I call for my example the pre-Raphaelite artist John Collier: is his painting Lilith obscene or art?
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Concolor
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@conradw: In my opinion, porn is about intent. Lilith is a beautiful work of art, but it could most certainly be used as porn. It is my opinion that the material itself cannot be said to be pornographic or not, it requires someone to use it as such to become pornography.

The only reason we call something "pornographic material" is that we recognize that this particular material has a certain form that we are used to associate with use as pornography. But that doesn't mean that a picture of a naked person in a highly exposing position cannot be art, or an illustration in a medical publication, and it most certainly does not exclude Mona Lisa being used as porn (which I would be highly surprised if has not happened already).
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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which is why i am thinking long about a definition-

im sure you can defend your statement Condraw- but for me thats not my primary motivation-
with pornographic material flooding our culture in epidemic proportions their might not be any mona lisa's painted in the future - porns getter a huger and huger part of the cultural landscape....
how this effects us is the question.
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conradw
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but concolor, by the sound of your reply, it seems implicit that the pornography is in the eye of the consumer, not the producer. Also, I imagine it might be rather difficult to find out what Collier's intention was in creating the painting but i wouldn't be surprised if it conveyed some of his religious views (Could i then argue that it is devotional by your definition?:P)

Might the definition lie in the medium? is the canvas the domain of art, whereas the vulgar photograph is the extruder of filth?

in any case, arazec, it is your prerogative to chose the definition. Might i suggest that seeing as this is a question about consumption of porn being detrimental, what we say porn is anything people use to stimulate themselves sexually. In this case Lilith becomes pornographic when my lustful gaze falls upon it, but remains a paragon of beauty in form and motion when others seek to rebel against mannerist depictions?
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well said
its just that i beleive pornography is changing and has changed significantly relatively recently.
not only in the medium but its meaning
I have already shown examples of logical contradictions and have thought of many more-we need to have an agrred understanding-we need to avoid semantics at the very beginning dont you think?




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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw:
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but concolor, by the sound of your reply, it seems implicit that the pornography is in the eye of the consumer, not the producer. Also, I imagine it might be rather difficult to find out what Collier's intention was in creating the painting but i wouldn't be surprised if it conveyed some of his religious views (Could i then argue that it is devotional by your definition?:P)
Yes you could. My point is that one thing can have different meanings to different people at the same time.

Example: I could go to a hardware-store and buy a hammer. Those who made the hammer made it intending for it to be used for driving nails into wood. Yet I have always wanted a hammer to support my books in the book-shelf. And so I use it for that. If people ask me if I have a support for my books, I answer yes, because I do. For the makers, it's a nail-driving device. For me, it's a book-support.
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Might the definition lie in the medium? is the canvas the domain of art, whereas the vulgar photograph is the extruder of filth?
No, absolutely not. And I suspect you will come to this conclusion as well when you think about it (wow, now I sound really arrogant and absolutist. But then again I also think I'm right ;) )
A great many photographs are beautiful art. Just because it's easier for the porn industry to use photographs as a distribution-channel, does not mean that "there lies an essence of porn in the medium". You make it sound like there was no porn before the photograph :D
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Might i suggest that seeing as this is a question about consumption of porn being detrimental, what we say porn is anything people use to stimulate themselves sexually. In this case Lilith becomes pornographic when my lustful gaze falls upon it, but remains a paragon of beauty in form and motion when others seek to rebel against mannerist depictions?
I completely agree.

@ARAZEC:
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its just that i beleive pornography is changing and has changed significantly relatively recently.
not only in the medium but its meaning
Really? How?
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I have already shown examples of logical contradictions and have thought of many more
As far as I can see, you have not provided a single logical contradiction. If you believe my definition leads to any logical contradictions, please list them and explain why they are contradictions.
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we need to have an agrred understanding
I completely agree. If we do not have a common understanding of what we are discussing, we will only be talking around each-other.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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Might i suggest that seeing as this is a question about consumption of porn being detrimental, what we say porn is anything people use to stimulate themselves sexually. In this case Lilith becomes pornographic when my lustful gaze falls upon it, but remains a paragon of beauty in form and motion when others seek to rebel against mannerist depictions?


"anything people use to stimulate themselves sexually" as a definition of Porn?
well its lovely you appreaciate art and it makes you think
its not just a question of porn being detrimental - you are saying or supposing this-i said how it effects us
thats what i really want to know-to someone making big bucks from cheap thrills it may not be detrimental.

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I have already shown examples of logical contradictions and have thought of many more

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As far as I can see, you have not provided a single logical contradiction. If you believe my definition leads to any logical contradictions, please list them and explain why they are contradictions
well Concolor your definition which included things seen and heard is in my opinion useless.
It would exclude Braile Porn & smell Porn (dont ask)-i call this a contridiction maybe i should of said its has inconsistantcies as a definition ?

I beleive Pornography is changing and recently rapidly in many respects - medium (cyber sex etc..) ,style,film genre, assesbility,main auidience,inference,as a comodity etc....etc...

What we are meaning when using the word Pornography should be relected in a definition or how can it describe what we are talking about?

im still working on a suitable definition-

here are words i am toying with...which may belong....

exploitation
aischrolatreia
profit





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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
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its not just a question of porn being detrimental - you are saying or supposing this-i said how it effects us
thats what i really want to know-to someone making big bucks from cheap thrills it may not be detrimental.
I'm having probmlens understanding what you are trying to say here. "I said how it effects us" - Well conradw is saying that the question is about whether or not porn is detrimental. That means it affects us in a negative way, and the whole point of our discussion is to find out whether or not this is the case. "big bucks from cheap thrills" have nothing to do with anything, as I have repeatedly demonstrated without anyone even attempting to rebut my analogy with the meat-industry.
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well Concolor your definition which included things seen and heard is in my opinion useless.
It would exclude Braile Porn & smell Porn (dont ask)-i call this a contridiction maybe i should of said its has inconsistantcies as a definition ?
It is neither a contradiction nor an inconsistency. It's an argument that claims that my definition is not complete in covering all forms of porn. And I'm inclined to agree with your argument.

I do not, however, agree that the definition is useless simply because it is imperfect, as I fail to see how braille- and olfactory-porn will have any significantly different effects from visual and auditory porn. However, here are two new suggestions for a definition of porn along with an example from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

1. "Material that is intended to stimulate the senses in order to lead to sexual arousal by stimulation of the imagination"
2. "Printed or recorded media that is intended to stimulate the visual and auditory senses in order to lead to sexual arousal, in addition to braille- and olfactory-porn with the same intent"
3. Merriam Webster:
"A : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
B : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
C : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction"

Here are some words I'm toying with for my definition of "strawberry":
Evil
detrimental
excrement-eating-torture-inducing

I hold this sarcasm to be self-evident
Edited by Concolor, 26 Jan 2010, 02:58 PM.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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your words are not describing a strawberry :blink: i would say these words do-red fleshy,aggregate fruit ,species Fragaria

if you think the words i am thinking of do not describe pornography as you see it in modern times please explain how.

In relation to your problems understanding me when i said i want to discuss how porn effects us-
thats the purpose of the debate as far as i see it - whats your problem?
deciding if the effects are detrimental or not will be at ppls descretion...so im not quite sure what you are uptight about?

we are effected by pornography or we are not?





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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
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your words are not describing a strawberry
Yes they are. To someone who already really dislikes strawberries they are quite descriptive.
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if you think the words i am thinking of do not describe pornography as you see it in modern times please explain how.
Your chosen words are loaded with negative connotations, as if the one who uses them has already decided that porn is detrimental. If you are not able to describe a subject in a neutral way, how on earth can you be expected to investigate it neutrally with an open mind?
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n relation to your problems understanding me when i said i want to discuss how porn effects us-
thats the purpose of the debate as far as i see it - whats your problem?
deciding if the effects are detrimental or not will be at ppls descretion...so im not quite sure what you are uptight about?
I am not uptight at all, that's why I said "I'm having probmlens understanding what you are trying to say here", because my problem was understanding the sentences that you wrote. From your most recent post it seems you were merely saying that you want to discuss how porn affects us. Which I agree is the main point of our discussion. In short: I asked for a clarification, you sorta gave me one, and everything is now good :)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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