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Internet Pornography; A sin that needs to be talked about
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2009, 09:13 PM (12,553 Views)
Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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I can think of a way porn has benefitted mankind.

Well maybe not spiritually benefitted...
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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conradw
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I don't check this board as often as I used to because I've been a bit busy recently, but I'm beginning to get a little frustrated. Arazec, you asked me for suggestions as to how I would improve the definition: I would do that replacing it with Junior's definition. Why? because Junior's is broad enough to encompass all forms of pornography, without relying on subjective descriptions or value statements.

If you don't see why this is an issue, then I ask you this. Would you support a proposition that we include in the definition 'irredeemably evil'? if not, why not? The same reasons would apply to using words like obscene instead.

It doesn't take long researching the subject to find that someone has already looked into definitions. "a pornographic representation is one that combines two features: it has a certain function or intention, to arouse its audience sexually, and also a certain content, explicit representations of sexual material (organs, postures, activity, etc)" is one which comes from Arazec's country. Now, I normally reject outright any definition which uses 'etc'.

In fact the reasons why you shouldn't use words like obscene and have been discussed. I refer you to
http://www.law.unimelb.edu.au/cmcl/malr/421.pdf for a lengthy, in depth discussion of the topic, whose conclusion can be boiled down to 'its complicated, and it would only ever be so.'

So come on. Enough with the smoke screen. We all know what porn is. Get on with making your case.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Hi guys, I've been away from the forums for a couple of days.

Firstly, though I agree with Junior that an ad hominem has no place in a discussion, I did not perceive ARAZEC's Australian words as anything other than affectionate. Don't worry ARAZEC :D

Also, even if we were to choose one of my definitions, I've put nearly half a dozen suggestions out there so we would have to choose a definition anyway.

@ARAZEC:
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theres a couple of ways for this to pan out and if Concolor hasnt got a strong enough case as to how pornography has benefited mankind i guess thats why he has to be stubborn and include anything and everything as pornography
This is really, really interesting. I cannot interpret your sentence in any other way than saying that you believe I think porn is beneficial. When did I ever say that porn is beneficial? Have I done anything other than to say that we should not judge before we have investigated the subject?

In fact, I have even clearly stated before that I do have an opinion as to whether porn has beneficial effects as I was mistakenly labeling conradw as having such opinions.

@Luemas: Though you're jumping a bit ahead in the discussion, it would be nice to see what your argument is :)

@conradw: I'm not neccesarily agreeing that we all have the same idea of porn. Until today I did not remember that a lot of what I would normally label as "porn" could be labeled as "erotic" if one wanted to make a label "erotic" and have "porn" as a subgroup of this. Erotic would then be more or less all kinds of material that induces sexual emotions, but porn would in addition contain depictions of nudity, postures, activities etc.

This would make sunsets "erotic" for some people, but not "porn".
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Deleted User
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Quote:
 
Arazec, you asked me for suggestions as to how I would improve the definition: I would do that replacing it with Junior's definition. Why? because Junior's is broad enough to encompass all forms of pornography, without relying on subjective descriptions or value statements.


well i am glad that you managed a response despite your frustrated state Condraw !
if i happen to be a contributing object of your frustration it wont be the first or last time :D
so ! if the majority of participants want to use Juniors copied definition than......... they should read a bit of Vilfredo Pareto's work- but anyway- lets releive frustration and go with it- as ....well.... i do enjoy talking to you all and i wouldnt want anyone to bow out or get shitty.


@CONCOLOR "ad hominem" so theres a name for my condition !!!??? :D

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Would you support a proposition that we include in the definition 'irredeemably evil'? if not, why not? The same reasons would apply to using words like obscene instead.
well for purposes of a debate i would except it for legislative purposes maybe not -unless of course i was defining the theory of human objectivity.

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This is really, really interesting. I cannot interpret your sentence in any other way than saying that you believe I think porn is beneficial.
this is really,really interesting heres an idea how about a tag team debate where we randomly are allocated a team mate etc....omg ! does that sound imature ....... :unsure: ????? :D

anyway glad some of you understand my "affection" and "imaturity" should i regress in the course of the discussion and add to frustration- except my apologies now- as its likely i wont be apologising again :) unless i really stuff up badly

well where does that leave us all?
do we agree we dont have all the same definitions of porn but will proceed with a broad definition ?
and what about the team idea ?




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Concolor
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Barabbas
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I agree that we should go forward with Juniors definition. I still think that we should note it down if there's anything about his definition we don't agree with, so that after our discussion using this definition we can investigate if any important points have been lost due to a less than optimal definition (if it indeed IS less than optimal).

As to tag teams, I think that would be a fun and educational process that could be placed in the "forum games"-section. But then it would have to be clear at all times that the participants were not voicing opinions of their own, but merely practicing an exercise. In a discussion like we are having now, the premises are radically different and I think we should stick to people representing their own views. But I would very much like to join a tag-team game in the "forum games"-section, so maybe we should start one up there. Pro-con eating wales perhaps, or using fir, or vegetarianism or maybe whether or not aliens exist?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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Have we not agreed on the definition then? what are we waiting for?

On a note about the Pareto principle: I think its very easy to say that 80% of my frustration is due to 20% of the people in this discussion. :P
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:D :D :D

lets go ! wait have we? (rising 88% and counting)

*cough*

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Concolor
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Yeah, we're all agreeing on Juniors definition. conradw, ARAZEC and Luemas have all posted positive statements, so they have the burden of providing evidence. Concolor and Junior are temporary agnostics as far as this discussion is concerned, i.e. we don't feel that we know enough to put forward positive statements yet (at least I don't).
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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what the?
when am i ever positive?

mate i love sunsets
theres no evidence againest that
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: In logic and rational discourse, a "positive" claim/statement is an assertion that something IS a certain way.
Examples: "Porn IS good", "Porn IS bad", "Porn has detrimental effects on society", "Porn has beneficial effects on society","There are grey cats", "this ball is blue" etc.
These are all "positive" claims.

A "negative" claim is an assertion that something is NOT in a certain way (it may of course be in any other way).
Examples: "Masturbation does NOT cause hairy palms", "Porn does NOT have detrimental effects on society","There are NO gray cats","That ball is NOT blue" etc.
These are all "negative" claims.

In this sense, both you, conradw and Luemas made positive claims about porn because you each put forward a claim that asserts something about porn.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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thanks Concolor for posting information

i may have made assertions elsewhere in this forum
but if i have made any in relation to this discussion i withdraw them - i would -like you -like to learn. since we have just agreed on what we are defining its a little early for me thanks.

i will be picking my side of the debate/discussion.



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conradw
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but what about porn rotting you inside even worse than heroin?
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like i said they are withdrawn

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conradw
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does that mean i win?

Actually. In the interests of intellectual honesty, I did discover a fair few studies indicating that men after watching porn, men are more aggressive. I can't say I'm surprised: isn't that what testosterone is for? the great F's: fighting, and making love?

Is aggression necessarily a bad thing? its debatable. Does increased aggression necessarily lead to increased criminality? again, debatable.

On my side of the debate, I present the Report of the Commission on Obscenity and Pornography (1970). which found among other things that That there was "no evidence to date that exposure to explicit sexual materials plays a significant role in the causation of delinquent or criminal behavior among youths or adults." (quote taken from the wikipedia article)
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw: I would argue that this heightened level of aggression is probably only observed in individuals that are restrained from partaking in certain activities that are often associated with watching porn. In those whose activities are uninhibited I would expect (though I have not looked for detailed studies on this) higher levels of docility and drowsiness.

Did the studies show how long this emotional state lasted?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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