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Internet Pornography; A sin that needs to be talked about
Topic Started: 18 Aug 2009, 09:13 PM (12,549 Views)
Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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Luemas
9 Nov 2010, 08:08 PM
But if God knows everything, then do we really have free will?

Because God already knows the future, and because he's God, he's chosen the future, and if he chooses the future, that means we don't have free will.

But we can't see the future, and we make our own choices being independent people. If we knew the future then it would be different, but because we don't, we still have free will.

Unmovable force? Meet Unstoppable object.
:hug: Best argument ever.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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hehe, rather oldest argument ever. And just because we are ignorant that does not mean we have free will, it just means we don't know what lies ahead. What you're saying is that God did not give us free will, he just made us dumb enough to think so.
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Concolor
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@millegas08: Well, God is dishing out commandments in both Exodus 20, Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 34.

The ones where God says "I'm number 1!" are not so much moral guidelines as a jealous decree from an insecure spirit. (As God says while he's giving out those laws.)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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rillegas08
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And yet God is not insecure. After all, his very name is Yahweh, or I AM. This comes from Exodus when Moses asks God what to say when Pharaoh asks who sent him in Exodus 3:

When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"

And Moses said, "Here I am."

"Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

The LORD said, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey—the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt."

But Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?"

And God said, "I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this mountain."

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

God said to Moses, "I AM who I AM."
I am Dan McNeely.

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"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Yeah, calling yourself mr. Big and forbidding people to have other idols is a sure sign of self confidence :D

Interesting you should bring up a story where God lets his chosen people being tormented in Egypt for years before finally deciding to do something about it. Then he, by an act of divine intervention, hardens Pharaohs heart so that Pharaoh will NOT let them go, before God unleashes torment after torment upon the innocent civilians of the country.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Luemas
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Yeah.. That was pretty much a faux pas. Or an epic fail.

Why can't i type any more?
Edited by Luemas, 10 Nov 2010, 03:52 PM.
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millegas08
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Exodus 20 is the classic version. Exodus 34 has more instructions in some parts, like not farming every 7 years and every 50th year. Deuteronomy 5 is the exact same as Exodus 20

but they all say the exact same thing:

no other gods before the one true God
no idols
don't use His name in vain
remember the Sabbath
honor ur parents
don't kill
don't commit adultery
don't steal
don't lie
don't covet wat someone else has
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Writers seldom write the things they think. They just write the things other people think they think.

Elbert Hubbard
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millegas08
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i'm not about to write out all the verses and compare each one. we can all do that in a Word document on our own time
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Writers seldom write the things they think. They just write the things other people think they think.

Elbert Hubbard
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millegas08
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Concolor
10 Nov 2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah, calling yourself mr. Big and forbidding people to have other idols is a sure sign of self confidence :D

Interesting you should bring up a story where God lets his chosen people being tormented in Egypt for years before finally deciding to do something about it. Then he, by an act of divine intervention, hardens Pharaohs heart so that Pharaoh will NOT let them go, before God unleashes torment after torment upon the innocent civilians of the country.
"other" idols? correct me if i'm wrong, and i'm not, but God is not an idol. we have no surefire depiction of Him, so we cannot, nor do we want to, make anything that looks like Him. it can't b done. like falling off the edge of the earth

yah, God does that a lot in the Bible cuz the Israelites KEEP FORGETTING that God is the only one they need to rely on
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Writers seldom write the things they think. They just write the things other people think they think.

Elbert Hubbard
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Concolor
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I stand corrected. I ment "idol" as in the modern sense of someone that is worshipped and looked up to.

He forbids it because he is jealous, as he even admits himself. I personally prefer Gods with enough self-confidance to not be jealous (and if they don't like it they should not have made me so). If he's worried about people finding other Gods to be equally believable he should make a personal, public appearance once in a while :)
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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millegas08
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the God of the Bible is not jealous like the way we consider jealous. He made us and wants a relationship with us. when we fall away from Him, he brings us back, not cuz we deserve it, but cuz we're nothing without Him

for example, take a look at something u made or bought. it belongs to u, and u want it back if someone borrows it. that's the kind of "jealous" that is God
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Writers seldom write the things they think. They just write the things other people think they think.

Elbert Hubbard
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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So you're saying he's possessive, not jealous?

He calls himself jealous in the Bible, are you calling him a liar?

And if he doesn't mean jealous, then why does he not say something else? He could invent a new word and explain it, he's God after all. For a guy who made the world in six days he sure could have put a few more hours into getting a proper communications-department up and running rather than blowing the entire budget on the plague-generators.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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millegas08
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read my post again and again until u understand wat it sez, not wat u want to see
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Writers seldom write the things they think. They just write the things other people think they think.

Elbert Hubbard
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Luemas
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Concolor, do you know what lexical gaps are?

I think you do, debating in a language that was not your first, correct?

Wouldn't you say there are words in Norwegian that don't translate nicely into English. Why wouldn't that be the same for Hebrew and Greek to English?

Another word might be envy, or desire. We already talked about this earlier, and as I said last time, he desires you to come back when you worship other God's.
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Midst Of Vampy
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Quote:
 
And yet God is not insecure.


You are not God. Do not speak like you are. Nobody has any idea whatsoever what he/she is like. AT ALL.
TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES!
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