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the end days; will it be 2012
Topic Started: 6 Sep 2009, 03:21 PM (4,394 Views)
conradw
Goliath
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See, I know I'm too young to be a cynic, and I'm still young enough to throw myself at an ideal, but if someone told me (for instance) that truly universal healthcare was a bad thing or an idea as dumb as a turd I would rather know why they think that than take offence.

I take as one of my "heroes" Che Guevara - a man, in my opinion, who epitomised revolution and the fight for equality. I recognise that in many ways he was a dreamer, and in other ways he was an asshole but the phrase "Hasta la Victoria Siempre" - Always, until Victory - tugs my emotions.
Similarly, the professor that inspired my love for all things neurological is someone else I admire. Do I think he is perfect? Not at all - although I reckon he comes a good deal closer than Che did.

These are two people who I admire greatly. I can understand that I would not like to hear them criticized, but sometimes maybe it would help to. What I can't understand is why such a status is afforded to a book.

I might like for you to kill me
You might like to kill me
You might like to die too
I might like for you to die

- i find the poem slightly funny, but mostly absurd. It takes a roundabout route to reach the implication of 'I hope you die' without saying it. Rather diplomatic in an odd way...
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Deleted User
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You guys are using words like-

insult
offence
critisized

when i keep using words like

hurt
respect
truth in Love

Its really simple-as i have said im not offended i am hurt-i am hurt because i hold Gods Word as speacil-why debate if i am justifyed in feeling hurt or feeling hurt for what you think are the right/wrong reasons?

To reread the way its responded to is really an interesting insight into both of you.

anyways-yelling murders at an abortion clinic or calling the Bible a pile of dog shit to me are both examples of insensitive even abusive behaviour and lack of respect for ppls feelings.




About the abortion -if i was walking into an abortion clinic i think i would be feeling scared,abandoned by the father,confused,dazed,alone among other feelings-i am not saying every women feels like this i would-someone yelling murder to me would be grossly inappropriate.

Concolor-dont resort to green vomit stories-try to be a little honest-would you accept ppl talking to and about your sister in front of you?







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conradw
Goliath
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I don't want to sound too much like our communication skills teacher, but you touched on something that is the answer to my question. You are hurt by disrespect of the bible because you see it as Gods Word and special: please, tell me more about that.

Is all of it God's word? - I realise this is an extremely leading question, so feel free to dodge it
How do you know its God's Word?
Is it special because its God's Word or is it God's word because its special?
With all the 'truth in Love' we've shared about the bible and some of the terrifying things that that God obliges us to to do in the Bible etc, how does that fit with your understanding of the Bible?

I don't mean these to be answered like an interview or an interrogation but to prompt you to share your thoughts
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Deleted User
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thats a lot of thoughts !! most of these answers i have touched on or my own responses are already posted if you care to trudge thru a year and a bit of forum threads which i dont :)
its a bit boring retyping everythang -_-
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw:
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See, I know I'm too young to be a cynic, and I'm still young enough to throw myself at an ideal
You don't have to be a cynic to check how the ground looks before you throw yourself at something ;)

@ARAZEC:
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You guys are using words like-[...]When i keep using words like[...]
I really don't see where you're getting with this. If you'd like to, I can also pick random words we have said:

I use words like: true, reason, care and how
You use words like: sinners, offensive, disrespectable and who
conradw uses words like: SOME, wondering, crazy and God
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why debate if i am justifyed in feeling hurt or feeling hurt for what you think are the right/wrong reasons?
But we are not. We are answering the various points you are bringing up to discussion. Such as:
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Well think of something that you know is dear to your friends-i am hoping they have some passion for something worthwhile in their lives-now let me know what it is and also some severly insulting things you could say to them.....
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So would you tell Muslim ppl you know that the Koran is a pile of dog droppings?
-----
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anyways-yelling murders at an abortion clinic or calling the Bible a pile of dog shit to me are both examples of insensitive even abusive behaviour and lack of respect for ppls feelings.
But to me they are not. Yelling murders at an abortion clinic is a lack of tolerance of people's right tho have an abortion. Giving an honest description of the factuality of a book is a lack of respect for the belief that a book can be (and is) not permissible to be criticized.

Remember also that being hurt is a personal emotion. I can be hurt by conradw's use of commas. Or perhaps I am hurt by his name, for deeply personal reasons. I have every right to be hurt, or offended, whenever I feel like it. That does not mean that conradw must change his name. And if I get hurt from commas I'm gonna be hurt an awful lot of the time. And if you get hurt whenever someone questions the infallibility of a book then I should warn you that there might be a lot of people out there who will inadvertently hurt your feelings.
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Concolor-dont resort to green vomit stories-try to be a little honest
Since we're throwing the 'hurt'-card around. I'm always hurt when you question my honesty. But if I couldn't deal with it, I wouldn't be here. So please go on expressing your sentiments as clearly and freely as you want to, and I will correct you whenever I see fit. For the record, I see nothing dishonest about my example.
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would you accept ppl talking to and about your sister in front of you?
Of course. If someone said "You sister's thesis about the benefits of using micro-credit to stimulate growth and development in struggling countries is a piece of trash." I would say "Well how would I know, I haven't read it. But I'll let her know so that she can get back to you on the points you disagree with."

I already used my mother as an example, why would I treat my sister differently?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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i didnt ask the question about your sisters thesis i asked it about your sister
Will you stand for ppl calling your sister derogatory names to your face? (or screen in this case)-answer my questions not yours !
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conradw
Goliath
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@Concolor: true, but its not as fun if you peak first!
- also, I have never seen any evidence to suggest that your sister isn't a sadistic serial killer. So THERE!
I also think she's a liar because I've never heard her say a word of truth. My sister is soooo much better than your sister - At least mine isn't a lying sadistic serial killer!

(no need for hypotheticals, I'll happily diss your sister to test this hypothesis)

see, we have two alternatives when we face someone we disagree with - either we examine their reasons, or we can ignore them. I'm going to put forward the notion that we must never hide behind the delivery being offensive and on the contrary we are obliged to find out what brought them to this conclusion. Only once we understand why someone takes a position can we safely ignore it (or adopt part if not all of it).

@arazec specifically - How can you expect me to respect your view if I don't know what it is an you won't tell me?
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i am not asking for you to respect my view-


i am asking Concolor to be a respectfull person

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conradw
Goliath
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i'm sure he is.

I disagree though - I don't think you have to respect everything, not by a long shot.

He's certainly respectful enough to have censured himself - I wouldn't have done that.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:
Are you saying that they are saying bad things about her as a person, not something she has said or written?
Firstly, how is that even remotely relevant to the situation?
You said that you were hurt because I questioned the infallibility of a certain book that your God has somehow been involved in. Are you saying that the problem is rather that I insulted the book in itself? That this book has feelings and a personality and I hurt it's feelings by saying I do not think it is accurate? In that case I think you may have a closer relationship with an inanimate object than what I would consider healthy. Yes I've had many a stuffed toy that I loved, but if someone starts bashing my velvet tiger the only comment they would get from me is "Dude, why are you talking to a toy?".

But for the sake of argument, let's go with your scenario. What would be a derogatory thing to say about my sister...Let's say they told me my sister was abusing small children. That is quite derogatory in my book. Well, this is something we could find out if is true or not. If we can find no evidence of my sister abusing children, I can gloat and say "Ha! I told you so. My sister is the best." If we DO find evidence that my sister is abusing children, then my trash-mouthed friend is a hero for exposing her. She would go to jail where she can no longer hurt these children and the world would be a safer place.

If we find no evidence of her abusing children, but he persists in claiming that this is a true fact without evidence, then he is clearly mad for believing in something without having any reason to do so. And there will be heavy snowfalls in the Bermudas before I take something personal that comes from an insane individual.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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You guys type fast, I didn't see those last three posts there. Good points conradw, but now we're agreeing again. Wasn't there a thread somewhere where we found something to disagree on?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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thats an allegation about your sister-again you chose something that fits your points without answering the question and snowfalls in the Bermudas? come on i thought we were going to try to use realistic examples?

is it o.k with you to let ppl call your sister a pile of dog shit to your face-will you stand for this?


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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: Firstly, if my sister was there I would expect her to deal with this herself. In Norway I would be considered quite the chauvinist if I waltzed into my sisters business as if she couldn't fend for her self.

If she was not present, I would demand to know on what basis she is comparable to dog shit. If he had nothing useful to back his claims up with then I do not see any reason why he would make a claim for which he has no basis. Once again, how can I be insulted by someone who makes random claims out of thin air?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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oh my Goodness-in Norway the men dont defend the womens honour???!!!! Yuck ! this is true?

you would demand to know on what basis he calls her a pile of dogshit? you would say this really?

*i wasnt insulted by what you said for the umpteenth time......i said it hurt my feelings*
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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oh my Goodness-in Norway the men dont defend the womens honour???!!!! Yuck ! this is true?
Yes. In Australia, are women treated as fragile pieces of uselessness that will collapse and faint as soon as someone raises their voice?
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you would demand to know on what basis he calls her a pile of dogshit? you would say this really?
Yes, what do you expect me to do? Rawr like a gorilla and throw my feces at him? Pee all around my sister to mark her as my territory which he is not allowed to trespass? Should I retort to anger and violence as if I was some sort of Neanderthal?

You're the one who don't think we're related to the other animals. Why would it surprise you that my reaction would be more civil than what you would expect from a rooster?
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*i wasnt insulted by what you said for the umpteenth time......i said it hurt my feelings*
I didn't say you were insulted. I said that I wasn't insulted.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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