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An interesting paradox
Topic Started: 18 Sep 2009, 01:21 PM (5,799 Views)
conradw
Goliath
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Junior, he did state with his mind.
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because it's more physically possible than turning her purple.

So God's hands are tied by what the physical world is like?

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Now, we live in a corrupt world, so what characteristics do we know of God? He's loving, merciful, that is if you accept his son.

And if you don't accept his son, he is hateful and merciless? No, you're mistaking God with his followers.
Edited by conradw, 3 Nov 2009, 01:46 PM.
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Junior
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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he would follow very closely with physics, mostly because he's the one that created it. also, he has common sense, he's not going to do something completely stupid, also, he created common sense, so no problems there.
Call it what you want
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Well, why didn't he create physics so that I could turn her purple with my thoughts, but rather he created physics so that I could stab her.

My point is that in order to have free will, one must be able to choose freely between options. If one has to be able to choose between all conceivable options, then there is no free will as I can conceive of the option to turn her purple, but I can't choose it. Since people claim there to be free will, I would assume that one only needs to have at least to options one can choose from. I don't see any reason why any of those options should be bad in order for us to have free will. If I can choose between giving ice-cream to a child and help an elderly lady cross the road, those are both good options, and I can exercise my free will when I choose which one to perform. The option of stabbing the old lady does not need to exist (just like turning her purple does not exist) in order for me to have free will.

I would therefore argue that I see no problems with having free will and only good options to choose from.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Luemas
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So basically you're saying, why can't I have free will in a perfect world and still learn to know God?
Because we're stupid, quite plainly. That is something I admit. Why can't you turn her purple? Because of the two ways I know of doing so, it would be murder, so you can. God didn't make the world to be your playtoy, so you can arbitrarily do whatever you want.
If that's what the world was, then you'd be God.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@Luemas: I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough. I'm saying that God never gave me the option of turning her skin purple with my mind. This means that if you claim that we have free will in this world, then one can have free will without being able to choose every conceivable option.
And if I'm not allowed to choose the option of making her purple with my mind, why am I still allowed to stab her? If I could only choose between helping her and turning her purple with my mind I would still have free will, but the world would be a better place.

I'm trying to make the point that free will not an argument for allowing bad things to exist, as one can have free will without bad things.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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you cant have "free" will with someone picking and choosing or limiting your options.
God created the world and then stuck man in it-maybe if or when man masters certain things in this world he may be able to turn someone purple cure cancer blah rah rah...

anyway the world was created perfect
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Well I get the impression that you start with a presumption that the world is perfect, rather than having this as a conclusion.

If you think a world where elderly ladies can be stabbed is perfect, then that's your opinion. I would think the world would be better if stabbing the elderly was not possible.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Deleted User
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in the beginning God created the world-and it was Good you wanna talk about the fall?
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conradw
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If your teacher said "Arazec, your report on Bali was good" would you understand that to mean it was perfect?
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:ermm: come to think of it - my teacher was pretty hot ...but not God


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Luemas
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Then again, Free Will isn't why bad things exist.
Shocking yes?
At least not all bad things. Job once said, shall I accept only good things from God?
Think about that.
And then, theres also Satan tempting you and etc.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Once again, why am I given the option to stab the old lady?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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Does God have to give Satan free will?
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Luemas
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God let Satan choose his destiny, and he did.
He chose to be the opposer to God.
More on this later as of school reasons.
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conradw
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So God doesn't mind that Satan is leading people astray. Alright. Because if he did, wouldn't he take away Satan's free will?

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