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An interesting paradox
Topic Started: 18 Sep 2009, 01:21 PM (5,808 Views)
Deleted User
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Junior
28 Sep 2009, 02:32 PM
conradw
20 Sep 2009, 04:53 AM
Okay. Well my next question was going to be specifically about lying, but you've already answered that for me.

So far so good. It appears I am under no misapprehensions about Christian Theology (at least as far as you guys see it).

Okay, let me propose this. If, hypothetically, I were to to accept Jesus as Lord and live like him as best I could, but the whole time not really believe it - in effect being dishonest - wouldn't that get me everlasting life as the sin of dishonesty is lifted from me by Jesus's death?

Let me know what you think. I recognise that this is a slight variation on Pascal's Wager, so if you want to comment on that as well, please do.
you have to truly believe. God can tell what's in your heart. he's omnipotent. If you go through the motions, but still are skeptical, you're not 100% there. It's called being a luke-warm christian.
i agree with Junior

He knows your HEART he doesnt need your good works,your money he doesnt NEED ANYTHING
he wants you with him
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HippieSmasher
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Sanguine Praetor, master of the Guilds
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Hoo boy.

Let's apply the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Jesus died: Sins were forgiven--> IMPORTANT: His main goal was to forgive original sin, which was the one sin we could not be cleaned of, no matter what.

After his death, we could get into heaven- because if we were good of our own accord, original sin wouldn't hold us back.

Hippies make me angry.... and you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.


Razak's finest, reporting for duty.
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Deleted User
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i'll never think of a kiss the same way again...

as for your summary i dont entirely like it but its how you think of it so yeah
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conradw
Goliath
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Uh no guys.

I just explained why honesty isn't a required part of getting to heaven.

And What I explained isn't being a luke-warm christian, is being a hypocritical one. but hey, is your sense of integrity worth an enternity of fire?
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Junior
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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conradw
 
I just explained why honesty isn't a required part of getting to heaven.

1. honesty is the MAIN requirement. god knows what's in your heart. the whole doing-behind-the-back crap doesn't fly with him, being as he knows everything...
conradw
 
And What I explained isn't being a luke-warm christian, is being a hypocritical one.

2. being a lukewarm christian is the exact same thing as being hypocritical. same principal.
conradw
 
but hey, is your sense of integrity worth an enternity of fire?

3. so you're saying the only way I can get to heaven is to lie to... who?
Call it what you want
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conradw
Goliath
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3. Lie to God, He'll forgive you
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Junior
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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what have we said before... god is omnipotent. that means he knows when you're lying.
Edited by Junior, 17 Oct 2009, 06:19 AM.
Call it what you want
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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I thing what conradw was getting at was that even if he knows you're lying to him, he'll still forgive you. So what keeps you from lying?
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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Junior
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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going to hell for one thing. if you ask god for forgiveness, but you want to do it again, you're not being sincere.
Call it what you want
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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Yeah, God's not stupid. So you ask him for forgiveness for lying. Do you really mean it? No. In the olden times for the jews, asking for forgiveness was a little more serious, because they would have to give a spotless lamb, undoubtedly worth a lot of money, for no gain, just to get their forgiveness.
God will know if you mean it or not. If you just see forgiveness as a vending machine, then eventually you'll realize you're buying a generic brand, that's not the real thing.
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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conradw
Goliath
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its not about fooling him either. Check it out: I have a tunnel to the moon in my garden.

Did I lie? yes. Did you know I was lying? yes. Did you forgive me? I'm going to guess that you don't really think I've betrayed your trust by saying that.

I went right out of my way to make sure that every point of my syllogism was accepted. And I was clearly told that lying is forgiven. So why isn't this lie forgiven? or is God's love conditional?
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Luemas
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DELICIOUS!
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I think you just want to live your life as you want, without any restraints, and get into heaven scott free.
Ever heard the phrase, a life for a life?
Jesus gave his life for you, and now you must take up his life.
Did Jesus lie? No.

In the end, it comes down to your heart. God will always forgive you, but only if you ask for it, and truly mean it, instead of those five second prayers, "oo i signed, forgive me, g'night."
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I think I'm Crazzzy. I think your crazy. I think your crazzzy... probably.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

also God dosent want you to lie because sin seperates you from God both on earth and eternally (as the wages of sin is death)
Also a life of sin will harm you personally and God wants you to have an abundant life-not one chained to sin-see we go by what God instructs in the bible as sin not entirely our own definitions and walking in this way things go better for us.-its for our own good Gods not like ooowww i caught you out ha! ha!na! na! now you get to bake in hell sucker...
There is great freedom from bondage in Christ.
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conradw
Goliath
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But it is that lie that brings you closer to God!

As a tv show recently phrased a related thing: "How dare he spoil my happy relationship, just because its based on a pile of lies?"

Jesus gave his life for me. Now I've got to give my life for him. I have a problem with this. Apart from the fact that I didn't ask him to, were I at the scene, I would be morally obliged to stop him. To punish the innocent instead of the guilty is evil. If Jesus took my sin onto him and took God's wrath instead of me, that makes God a VERY unpleasant person. The philosophy of penal substitution is patently immoral
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Deleted User
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No the lie didnt bring anyone closer to God
but because of his Grace he gives you that which you do not deserver and because of his mercy he puts out his hand to you as you are dying in your own foolishness
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