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An interesting paradox
Topic Started: 18 Sep 2009, 01:21 PM (5,789 Views)
conradw
Goliath
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i'm not impressed by the dismissive tone.

the Quran verifies nothing about the events themselves. Unless of course you believe that the Quran was dictated to Mohammed by God through the angel Gabriel?
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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The Koran treats Jesus as an important prophet. It is not an independent source at all since it is openly referring to the Bible, nor is it critical as it is taking all the miracles as evidence of Allah and his will.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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i'm not impressed by the dismissive tone- do you mean the yawns cause its 1.15am here....

o.k so you tell me what you want instead of me guessing- no books from major religions of the world cross referencing of documented History and its gotta be with-in 60 years of Jesus death and its got to be stated clearly by the person that they are documenting Jesus life and works but they disagree with him? are you going to add more or is this what you want ?


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conradw
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just that alone would be marvellous.
:)
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In 52 AD, Thallus wrote a historical work of Greece regarding the Trojan War. Although most of his work is lost,found are accounts beginning with Sulla to Jesus mentioning Herod Agrippa.
Julius Africanus in 221 AD quotes Thallus. In the third book of Africanus’ histories he
states that darkness covered the earth during the crucifixion of Jesus. He attributes the
darkness to a solar eclipse. From his writings, it can be concluded that the passion story
was known in Rome by 50 AD, and that the enemies of Christianity tried to give
naturalistic explanations to the occurrence of darkness.

Patrick Zukeran

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the Author
Patrick Zukeran is an associate speaker for Probe Ministries. He has a B.A. in Religion from Point Loma Nazarene University, a Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and a D.Min. from Southern Evangelical Seminary. He is an author, radio talk show host, and a national and international speaker on apologetics, cults, world religions, Bible, theology, and current issues. His nationally syndicated radio talk show "Evidence and Answers" is broadcast on the KTLW Network (covering the West Coast), through all of Asia (through World Harvest Radio), and on the web at evidenceandanswers



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conradw
Goliath
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I hadn't heard of Thallus before. I find that really interesting. So much so that I decided to look it up.
Julius Africanus
 
On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth--manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period.


It is unfortunate that Thallus is lost and we may never know exactly what he was referring to, and whether Africanus's criticism is justified. I feel we are peering dimly through the smokes of time.

I'd love to hear other people's views on this. Do you know of any other similar sources?
I think this could make for some fascinating conversation :thumbs:
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Deleted User
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yes it was tiresome to look up EXACTELY what you wanted to hear
anyway can you post a link to your source?
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conradw
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http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html

:) for you, anything
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Junior
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Brother-in-law of Soul
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Christianthinktank.com.... that's an... enticing name.
Call it what you want
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@conradw:
Quote:
 
I'd love to hear other people's views on this.
Though I'm no historian, I would say that to me the chances look pretty good that there was at least one guy called Jesus that stirred up some trouble back then. Exactly what Jesus said and did is a rather different question. And for those who calim that he was the son of God, I would say that I'm not convinced that we can rule out the competition just because Jesus' followers did a better long-term PR-job.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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conradw
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concolor, the market has spoken! Jesus was the son of God because Mel Gibson's film made a shed load of dosh.

(now that WAS something stolen from the Colbert Report!)
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Well I guess that's my point. If you think that millions of people can't be wrong, then you've never watched an American election :D
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy! Posted Image
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From Condraws reference are interesting
Quote:
 
A very important piece of data comes from the antagonist side! When one of the most effective critics of Christianity in the ancient world--Porphyry--decides to rebut Christianity, he picked Origen and Julius as his targets! What a compliment to their credibility.


Looks like a full eclipse cant happen at the time of Jesus's crucifixtion - so it cant have been why the world was covered in darkness....


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conradw
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Well a total eclipse wouldn't have covered the whole world in darkness anyway.

So what did happen? God dimmed the sun? that sounds sorta dangerous, as well as against the whole 'God doesn't do miracles because he wants you to have faith'
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Deleted User
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well i imagine id be pissed and hurl the entire earth if i could and that happened to my son...
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