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| An interesting paradox | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 18 Sep 2009, 01:21 PM (5,786 Views) | |
| Concolor | 12 Dec 2009, 08:32 AM Post #331 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Then on whan besis do you make such a decition if you do not have such knowledge (unless of course you have no free will and only obey blindly commands that are given to you, but I supposed that Adam and Eve were given free will at this point?) ...or making food. It's mealtime in Norway. And if I was searching it would mean that I would be able to present you with a better, more thorough and precise answer. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 12 Dec 2009, 08:47 AM Post #332 |
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i looked up what you were doing on the site...it said searching....maybe it switches to that when the pantry opens yes i have no life God made man with free will so they had a choice to trust God Trust - its not knowing everything for sure but choosing to hope reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence. 2. confident expectation of something; hope. 3. confidence in the certainty of future payment for property or goods received; credit: to sell merchandise on trust. 4. a person on whom or thing on which one relies: God is my trust. 5. the condition of one to whom something has been entrusted. 6. the obligation or responsibility imposed on a person in whom confidence or authority is placed: a position of trust. 7. charge, custody, or care: to leave valuables in someone's trust. 8. something committed or entrusted to one's care for use or safekeeping, as an office, duty, or the like; responsibility; charge SEE GOD TRUSTED ADAM AND EVE |
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| Concolor | 12 Dec 2009, 08:54 AM Post #333 |
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Barabbas
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Why on earth did he trust them when he, as an omniscient being, KNEW all along that they would eat the fruit? And how would they know if trusting God would be a good thing or not? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 12 Dec 2009, 09:14 AM Post #334 |
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trust is trust it isnt good trust or bad trust its trust Yes God knows all things does that mean he knows everything there is to know can you know a mans free will? |
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| Concolor | 12 Dec 2009, 09:28 AM Post #335 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Apparantly if God is all-knowing you can, because a mans choice will have spesific consequenses for future events, and if God is not aware of what the future will be he is not all-knowing. He knew that they would eat from the tree, he knew he would kick them out from the garden, he knew all that would happen to the humans afterwards. Otherwise there would be a ton of stuff he didn't know. But how do you know if it's a good choice to trust someone if you don't know good from bad? It's a bad thing to trust an axe-murderer and a good thing to trust a rescue worker, and we can choose to trust the rescue worker and not the axe murderer because whe have knowledge about which one is good and which one is bad. How was Eve supposed to know that God was good and the snake was bad? |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 12 Dec 2009, 09:47 AM Post #336 |
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thats the whole point she walked with God and experianced only perfect love there - so she knew God was good but the option for her was there to choose to disobey God. it doesnt say they didnt know the difference between good and bad God made this known to them when he gave instuctions not to eat. and you are totally right-God says we dont have the capacity to know many things and as we are not Gods we cant be all knowing but God is -and we cant make sense of how -we cant even comprehend omniscient ! or what it is to live outside and inside of time ! so all the more reason to Love and trust God ! he wants us to have trust in him -being all knowing he knows this is the way to have abundant life -when a free will chooses him ! God is GOOD and when we chose him we live above our circumstance- but thats the nature of God he works all things together for the Good of man if man so chooses him to. |
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| Deleted User | 12 Dec 2009, 10:26 AM Post #337 |
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wow what a faith strengthener ! you saying God is all knowing reminds me how excellent it is to be a Christian free indeed ! |
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| Concolor | 12 Dec 2009, 01:12 PM Post #338 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:If they allready knew the difference between good and bad, what then is the fruit of knowledge supposed to do? And why were they then not already aware of the fact that they were naked? And then why did Eve eat the fruit if she knew that it was bad? Was she a complete idiot? Can you honestly imagine anyone stupid enough to recieve direct face-to-face instruction from the creator of the universe, all the time realizing the full measure of his greatness, goodness and the goodness of following his instructions and thereby the evil of disobeying him, and then she immidiately strolls of and does the most evil thing imaginable? One thing is to give her free will, but not giving her a brain is really not my idea of playing fair. Also, since God knew this was going to happen, why does he get so angry? Shouldn't he have gone "Well well, seems like you guys have abused your free will there a bit. Now you won't get to watch the unicorns play or ride the rainbow-slides for three full months." rather than "Where are you guys? I can't seem to find you in all my omniscience. Oh there you are. Why are you naked? You ate from the tree? Rargh! Now all your innocent children will be cursed until thousands of years from now (when you are both dead) I'll come down to earth do die, and this will somehow repay the damage you caused by eating a fruit which did not kill you (I lied about that one) nor did it give you knowledge of good and bad (since I gave you that allready) but it made you stop going around naked. And I'll leave it up to the imagination to figure out what happens to all the people who die between now and when I come down there." Shouldn't God have given them a little slack knowing fully well how dumb and easily fooled we are? And why did he put the snake there?! Isn't it enough to test their free will by just giving them all the options? Did he have to throw in a talking snake that specializes in talking women into eating forbidden fruits? And don't tell me he didn't see that coming, he is after all all-knowing. Though I am glad to contribute to your day being a happy one, I must admit that our present conversations mostly just fortifies our individual beliefs and does not really contribute much to a mutual understanding. I'll take at least as much blame for this as you (perhaps more), and I'll try to see if I can stagger my primitive adrenaline glands for long enough to steer the conversation into a more constructive route (after a couple of more counterproductive rants perhaps). |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 12 Dec 2009, 07:10 PM Post #339 |
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you never fail to dissapoint ! i love the unicorn bit and how you thru in the "now they dont walk around naked anymore" bit.who said fortifiying our individual beleifs or lack of in your instance fail to promote mutual understanding? why you just gave me inspiration for a new thread.... it looks like this- i answer as you and you answer as me CONCOLOR- if God loves man why did he make mosquitoes? (oh wait a sec youd know the food chain scientific part of that one,ill try again) Athiests have the lowest Divorce rates and Scandinavion ppl have the lowest crime rates because we are intelligent enough to not beleive in the tooth fairy ARAZEC- |
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| Concolor | 12 Dec 2009, 08:06 PM Post #340 |
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC:Because many of our beliefs are prejudices, and it is hard to find out if those are well grounded or not if one keep exploring only those paths where one get's those prejudices confirmed. Also, choosing topics where we both have strong opinions is likely to mean that we have an emotional attachement to our particular opinion. This is likely to lead to less insightful exploration and more instinctive defense of a position due to emotional override of our rational thought-systems. I.e. you get trench war rather than mutual exploration. Oh, and I'm worried that such a thread as you suggest would lead us both to post increasingly ridiculous answers on each others behalfs, to the point where we're both just posting: "Wah wah wah!" |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 13 Dec 2009, 07:26 AM Post #341 |
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i can understand why you beleive many "beleifs" are prejudices because you have shared that your family had no beliefs as in teaching you about God. that dynamic is an early learned prejudice in itself. we all have bias intentional or unintential i beleive most prejudices arise from fear. |
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| Concolor | 13 Dec 2009, 08:00 AM Post #342 |
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Barabbas
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I think most prejudices arise from convenience. I think most of my beliefs which are prejudices are being held because it's convenient for me to lump people into categories and make assumptions about them, because this can help me to make quick decisions without too much brain work (which is also why having too many baseless pejudices can be a bad thing). Like if I see a guy waving an axe around in the middle of a city, my prejudice will probably be that he's insane and that I should stay away from him. This may not be correct, as he may be an lumberjack demonstrating correct chopping techniques to bystanders, and my prejudice just kept me from learning some good tips. But then again I may just have saved my life by not asking him more closely. Sometimes our prejudices are right sometimes they're not. It is our responsibility to make sure we keep track of what kind of prejudices we have, and challenge our them whenever it is possible to do so safely. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 13 Dec 2009, 08:10 AM Post #343 |
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i would not define seeing an axe welding man and staying away from him as a prejudice. Making assumptions is one of the ways we can come to conclusions but what you are describing as monitoring our prejudices can be similar to what the Bible asks us to do and thats not Judge others without first looking at ourself. |
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| Concolor | 13 Dec 2009, 08:27 AM Post #344 |
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Barabbas
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Yes. Judging someone before we know all the facts is a pre-judgement. I decided to treat him as an axe murderer without taking the time to find out how he really was. I made a judgement about his persona without having all the facts. A pre-judgement. I could also have had a positive prejudice. Perhaps I saw a man carrying a flower and I judged him as a romantic fellow on the way to give this flower to his girlfriend. I could of course be wrong. Perhaps it was a fake novelty-flower and he intended to use it to squirt water ito people's faces after getting them to smell the flower. I agree that we should be careful about judging others without applying the same scrutiny to ourselves. |
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Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through. Reason, compassion and love comes first. Everything else is secondary. Except for Skittles. - And emperor Cheezy!
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| Deleted User | 13 Dec 2009, 09:00 AM Post #345 |
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thats a good biblical truth to live by |
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yes i have no life

6:45 PM Jul 10