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Your view on homosexuality?
Topic Started: 17 Oct 2009, 08:54 PM (2,302 Views)
Zamorack
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We are human. People who are homosexual are still human. You can't change that, nobody can. The option to be married to the same sex should be available anywhere, and people who dislike that idea must not be putting themselves into the mind of a homosexual, who I believe in most countries think that it is completely unfair. What would happen if suddenly you can't marry the person you love because another person's ideals or religious faith says it's wrong? You would feel pretty upset, wouldn't you? They love another person of the same sex? Who cares! Nobody is going to die.
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Deleted User
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We are all gonna die someday....
Whats the significant or importantance of getting married to people not of the Christian faith? I understand ppl may want the legal or social recognition of their commitment formalised but don't most countries have this process available they just label it with another name?
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Zamorack
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I still don't see how gay marriage is a problem, why it is outlawed in some parts of the modern world, and why religion has anything to do with it. -_-
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Afalstein
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Zamorack
22 Jan 2013, 11:10 PM
I still don't see how gay marriage is a problem, why it is outlawed in some parts of the modern world, and why religion has anything to do with it. -_-
That last part is probably why you don't understand the first part. If religion didn't have anything to do with marriage, if it was a purely secular institution, then gay marriage wouldn't be anymore a problem than gays in general. Which is to say, it'd still be a sin, but less of something that directly offended people. Civil unions have been around for a while now and no one bothers much to complain about them. I don't think you'd have nearly as much protest if the issue were granting Civil Unions equal rights to Marriages. The debate about Gay Marriage isn't about giving gays equal rights.

What it IS about is directly endorsing gays. Marriage is a VERY religious institution, particularly in the modern world where civil unions are just as easy to acquire. When a minister marries a man and a woman, the reason it's a MINISTER is because it's very religious. You're bringing the couple together under God's blessing and calling on him to preserve that couple. It's giving the church's stamp of approval--and by extension God's--to the marriage.

Now make the marriage a homosexual one. What you are essentially doing is demanding the church approve of something and bless it, put God's stamp of approval on it. Some Christians might not have a problem with that, but a lot do, and to DEMAND the remainder conform is an infringement not only of liberty, but of conscience.

You might say that marriages don't have to be done by a minister, that you can get a marriage certificate from purely secular outlets. But this misses the point. It's not simply about the legal side of things. If it were, gays would just push for more civil union rights. What it's about is gays pushing to not only be accepted, but endorsed by the community at large. And yes, you can get a marriage certificate from City Hall and bypass the church entirely, and that's what most gays have done. But already you're getting gays who demand they be married in a church, and that a minister marry them. (Most refuse, but then they face legal trouble and all sorts of bad press) Because it's not about just the legal rights, it's about appearing completely normal and getting the same stamp of approval.

And now I'd like to offer this to give some perspective. Shane L Windmeyer, outspoken LGBT activist, talks about his new friendship with Chick-Fil-A CEO Dan Cathy. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shane-l-windmeyer/dan-cathy-chick-fil-a_b_2564379.html
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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Zamorack
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"Marriage is a VERY religious institution"
"...appearing completely normal"


"Marriage is a civil right that is not now and has never been dependent upon any one religion or even religion in general for its justification, existence, or perpetuation. Marriage exists because people desire it and the community, working through the government, helps ensure that married couples are able to do what they need to in order to survive. At no point is religion needed or necessarily relevant."
[URL="Marriage is a VERY religious institution" "Marriage is a civil right that is not now and has never been dependent upon any one religion or even religion in general for its justification, existence, or perpetuation. Marriage exists because people desire it and the community, working through the government, helps ensure that married couples are able to do what they need to in order to survive. At no point is religion needed or necessarily relevant."
http://atheism.about.com/od/gaymarriage/a/MarriageCivil.htm

I do not need to have a minister to have me married, nor do homosexual couples, and this is quite normal, thanks.
I plan on having a completely religion-free wedding in the future, like many before me have. Maybe outside. On the beach. Who knows? I'm quite sure I don't need a huge church to get married in. Nor do any homosexual couples.

I don't see why we have to get so technical with this. Why can't the US states just recognise homosexuality? No babies are going to be eaten. World War Three is not going to break out. Your god isn't going to come down from his little cloud and shoot the crap out of you with lightning bolts. People who are in love are going to get married. That's it. No fine print. Homosexuals are marrying without any hindrance up here, and there is no problem with anything. I guess people see this as different and fear the change, but the world will move on. It could be decades from now, sure, but the newer generations will look back on our actions now, like we look back on the older generations who discriminated against the rights of blacks and women, and wonder what we were thinking. I'm sure most will laugh, like I do now.

Well, I don't really have to get all butt-hurt from what is happening below me. Everyone is fine and dandy up here. I'll just leave you guys to your stuff and I'll watch from the side-lines.
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Patrick Majewski
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So I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, Afalstein points out that the bigger picture here is of a political one beyond legal issue. Gay marriage being of a small portion to the problem at hand; accepting gays by the community.

I think the cause of this acceptance issue is that they're different, and they don't comply to normal conditions of living, or some old text manuscript. And one other hazard that communities may be concerned about one abnormal condition leading to another potentially dangerous condition. But truthfully, who the hell knows?

I do agree with Zamorack, but if you allow me to play devil's advocate as I am sincerely looking for your p.o.v, because there are a few points why it might be important with technical concerns regarding to the harm it does, like HIV. I'm not condoning gays for this, however it is pretty inconvenient and... non-productive... lol xD Can you tell me the difference between babies getting eaten and HIV if both result in death? And I'm not talking about the morals, I'm talking about the condition itself.

I'd imagine the community positing concern for the gays as a harmful act amongst themselves, and not the spectators. But this is my wishful thinking and I don't know at all what happens in the States and most other places in the world.
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Deleted User
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.....what do you mean leave us here & watch from afar ? Why ? Because we don't share the same opinion ? Huh?

No ones really answered my question tho
Marriage is a christian covenant of blood & joined by God.
Nothing to do with acceptance
God accepts & invites us ALL like hello that's because of his amazing grace & mercy that none of us NONE if us can earn in ANY way because well that's kinda the point of Jesus

So what's the diff between marriage & a civil ceremony to an unbeliever ?
Is their a diff ?
So why give a ____ ? Get a civil ceremony whatever ?
Is this really about definition or do atheists want gods approval ...?
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Midst Of Vampy
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This is how I see it: Not everyone believes in a God. People can bicker back and forth about what homosexual love is or isn't. There are plenty of homosexuals who believe in the Christian God, or any God, but don't trust the written words of humans. What will homosexuality hurt if it is legalized? If you have enough faith in your God, and your religion, why should it bother you that two people are getting married? You may think it's a sin, but my sin will still have the same consequences as yours, will it not? If it isn't your life, you shouldn't worry about it, because you can't know if someone is in love with another human or not. You can say that it isn't love, but I have known homosexual couples that have lasted far longer than heterosexual relationships, and are healthy and happy. That's just the way I see things! ^_^
TIMEY-WHIMEY SKITTLES!
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Deleted User
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He he he finally a response & a good one (hi again vamps)
What do you think would happen if I decided to assume the identity of a homosexual person that's heterosexual ? I dont know about other countries but it would so im told be disrespectful to make out with my husband in a same sex Gay pickup joint ,if I could sneak myself in that is as being female its not permitted by management although legally the proprietors can refuse right of entry on other grounds besides gender-the point is that while legislation can shape a society it can't or shouldn't dictate freedom & choice to a point that leaves little options-therefore while so far in my country same sex marriage is unlawful all the legal benefits of same sex partnership are available under legislated provisions providing equality without altering male & female marriage as such from what it is -a union by God preserving its identity.
Im thinking your point on faith is a good one but beside the point 😜 because sometimes faith fluctuates making no difference to what is & isn't already established by God.

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Afalstein
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Here's something that may add to this discussion. A rather unique article by BBC about gays and lesbians who OPPOSE gay marriage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22758434

According to this article, there's a section of the LGBT community (in Europe, at least) that, while in favor of legal equality in civil unions, are uncomfortable with calling it "marriage," either because they recognize the religious overtones, or because they feel the union is so radically different from traditional marriage. Here's a quote:

“I’m not going to walk down the aisle to Mendelssohn wearing white in a church and throw a bouquet and do the first dance,” adds Soroff, columnist for the Improper Boston. “I’ve been to some lovely gay weddings but aping the traditional heterosexual wedding is weird and I don’t understand why anyone wants to do that.

I’m not saying that people who want that shouldn’t have it but for me, all that matters is the legal stuff.”


Hard to know large this group is, as it's not exactly a question most pollers ask gays/lesbians (for obvious reasons). And there's some significant backlash in the LGBT community against those with such opinions. But still, an interesting perspective.
Edited by Afalstein, 18 Jun 2013, 02:50 PM.
"Evil Triumphs when Good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
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Deleted User
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Thanks interesting article

The thing is gay people can get married.
If they want to be married to someone if the opposite sex.
No ones saying they can't be married.
But if the want a marriage like relationship with the same sex it's a civil union.
Provided each relationship has equal legal rights why should marriage be changed ?
It's not equal rights for all married people there be a change to the commitment already made and the institution of marriage altered.
It's crazy to imply that gay people don't have marriage as a choice they do -but why should married people have their choice now taken away?
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Deleted User
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Also,its a bit
Like me joining the rugby union team and wanting them to change it to rugby league.
If I want to play league I join the league team but if I want to play union I join the union team
They are both Rugby but they are each a different code of the same game -but they are different
Nothing wrong with it being different but similar ?
I've still got a choice to play rugby and the choice which code to go to right?


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Midst Of Vampy
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Barabbas
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ARAZEC
21 Jun 2013, 07:47 AM
Thanks interesting article

The thing is gay people can get married.
If they want to be married to someone if the opposite sex.
No ones saying they can't be married.
But if the want a marriage like relationship with the same sex it's a civil union.
Provided each relationship has equal legal rights why should marriage be changed ?
It's not equal rights for all married people there be a change to the commitment already made and the institution of marriage altered.
It's crazy to imply that gay people don't have marriage as a choice they do -but why should married people have their choice now taken away?
See, here's just one problem.
The definition has been changed before.
I know you live in Australia, and I'm not sure if it's the same there though. :P It was only in 1967 that interracial marriage was accepted, legalized. People always used the same excuse that is was bad, that is was going against traditional marriage, that it was going to affect the values that marriage brings. Look at it now, it's more than widely accepted, it's just as equal as "traditional" marriage before the interracial aspect was legalized. I don't even like referring to homosexuals marrying as "gay marriage". We fight for the right for homosexuals getting married, but considering gay marriage any different from heterosexual marriage is unequal in itself. Of course it's mostly an identity used to define the difference between heterosexual couples marrying and homosexuals marrying, but I don't want it to turn into a case where homosexuals start gaining more rights than heterosexuals just because they feel like they've been oppressed for so long. That's not equality.
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Deleted User
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I don't know if its the same elsewhere but Marriage here (in Australia) has always been between a man & women 👫 its not a sexual preference issue ? It's about a union between a man & women ?
People of any sexual preference can get married to someone of another gender -if they want to-if they don't and want to have their own sex and they want the same legal rights they get a civil union.its the same but different -what's wrong with being the same but different? I might want something so I can be the same as someone else when I am different to them -does my want mean the people I want to be the same as have to change what they have so I can have what they have because I want it to be that way even when provision for our differences in legal rights are created for me -yet my want is to take away from another by insisting that THEY change.
Eg -why take away from those that are already married the definition & symbolism of their marriages?
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Deleted User
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And if you answer yes we are all the same there should be no differences based on gender will we make all Olympic medals based on performance regardless of gender prerequisite ?
Why not ? If gender is then not allowed as a definitive criteria of marriage why should gender be allowed as a definitive criteria for anything?
Why can't I legally be a Mr instead of a mrs ? Just Because I am a women & I want my birth certificate to say I'm a man so that I have a birth certificate that I want ?
How's that different to insisting on a marriage certificate that I want to say marriage instead of a certificate of a civil union ?
It's not about who I want to have sexual relationships with its about the certificate that I want .
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