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All religions
Topic Started: 20 Oct 2009, 09:52 PM (5,196 Views)
Luemas
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So then why do we even have countries?
If according to Conc, having countries for people is a bad thing, then why not do away with them?
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well after the big fart....humans began as blah...blah...blah....then eventually into a bunch of cells.....and you know i reckon it sounds like we would look all blobby.... untill we evolved blob brains that evolved into :ermm: 2 blobs and then one blob thought to the other blob in the womb of the first blob (seeing as we all start male??) i am going to not grow 2 blobs on my chest so umm :ermm: i can reproduce and make more blobs....

*i am being as scientific as possible here
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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@ARAZEC: Actually, we (humans) all start female, the Y-chromosome kicks in at a certain point in the development of the fetus. Girls are the default.

Also, though I appreciate you attempt of a scientific mindset (and I apologize for not being able to write this without being patronizing), you trip at the first hurdle by saying "humans began as..." when the whole point is that early life had nothing more to do with humans, than with frogs or mushrooms. Scientifically speaking we have no more claim of "being" the first life than they do. So if you're saying "we", then you speak for all life on the planet, and not all of us did evolve brains or wombs.

But if you're asking me how these early life-forms looked like, you're asking the wrong guy. I wasn't there, and as primitive cell-like structures don't fossilize well it's hard to go all the way back to the earliest ones when it comes to detailed appearances. A biologist with this as his field of specialty could probably give the latest theories and hypotheses regarding their appearance.

Oh, and you don't need blobs on your chest to reproduce ;)
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Concolor
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@Luemas: We have countries for historic reasons, obviously. Is it more beneficial to have many small countries rather than a big one? I don't know, I'm not a social science professor :D Of course I see the UN as a positive thing, and that could be seen as somewhat of a prototype "world government".

Of course there can be wars within a specific country but, as i think conradw alluded to, that is most often a result of two groups of people that think of themselves as different from each other due to religious/tribal/ethnic-reasons. Just like people of different nations may view each other. In fact, I think many of our problems comes from our tribal instinct of dividing humans into groups and declaring that these are in my trusted in-group and those are in the evil out-group. I think Freddie Mercury said it best in One Vision.
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thanks for the patronizing however the errors were to highlight some of multiple areas of inconsistancy-brush up on your latest theories as ours hasnt changed since Genisis... :P
i was not suggesting you beleive we were the first life hence the blob came before me and you (i cant use the word humans then can i :) )
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Luemas
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Actually, technically Conc is right, we were the last of God's creation.
However he did give dominion to it for us, but that's for something else.


And why do you feel the Jews shouldn't have a country? They don't deserve it, or it's been too long?
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conradw
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I feel its tantamount to racism to have a state for the Jews and no one else. Countries are there for all their citizens, no matter their religion or race.

We aren't the last of God's creation by a long shot. I think that honour belongs to pinky tree frogs from australia - the most recently evolved species. But if you count Viruses, I think Swine Flu might be the most obvious one.

As for changing your theories over time: who would you prefer to engineer your antibiotics, a biologist or a bronze age tribesman? Sure, the tribesman's idea hasn't changed in many years, but isn't that the problem? Sure keeping up to date on the latest discoveries is a chore, but its an enriching one.

As for why do we have countries, I think its mainly historical reasons, but also in order to define the world in terms of 'us' and 'them.' In Europe at least the notion of individual countries is becoming more and more blurred - this may be progress.
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Luemas
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Us and them.
Me and you.
Points if you get the reference.
You make it sound as if we only allow pure blooded Orthodox Jews to live in their country.
It's a home, like you said, we have countries for historical reasons, so do they. People generally like having a place to live, and even better, a place where they can worship in peace.
Some people found this America, a lot not.
Will you so begrudge a people against having a home and unity?
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Concolor
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A home? No problems with that. Unity? What does that mean? Unity against someone, or with someone?
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Luemas
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With someone, with your fellow people.
In high school, there was a certain group you fit in correct?
Well, think on a much much larger scale.
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Concolor
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Why are they my/your fellow people?

I was the one that didn't fit in with any specific groups. But I did see how the "jocks" and the "geeks" had prejudices against each other and how this lead to animosity between them. I hung out with people who seemed friendly to me, but that does not mean that I wouldn't have liked the rest if only I had gotten to know them better. Of course I have prejudices against people who seem different from me, but I don't think of that as a positive thing, rather something I have to work with.
Life is beautiful, love heals, people come through.

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conradw
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Luemas
5 Nov 2009, 07:48 PM
Us and them.
Me and you.
Points if you get the reference.
You make it sound as if we only allow pure blooded Orthodox Jews to live in their country.
It's a home, like you said, we have countries for historical reasons, so do they. People generally like having a place to live, and even better, a place where they can worship in peace.
Some people found this America, a lot not.
Will you so begrudge a people against having a home and unity?
Well they certainly don't allow pure blooded Palestinians to live in their country.

And its interesting that a man born in Jerusalem cannot travel there, but someone born in Kiev has not only the ability, but the right and (arguably) the duty to live in Jerusalem.

I begrudge no one a home. But I will not deny someone else's rights to push yours.

Israel has the right to exist because it does. Not only that, but it has the right to exist in peace. But it does not have the right to treat people as second class citizens simply because they are Christian or Muslim.
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Concolor
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@conradw: I realize this is sidetracking the current discussion a bit, but in a way I'm returning more to the original theme of the post so I'll pretend it's all good:

As far as you've told me, you are a theist and more specifically a Christian. As far as my experience goes this video tells me what it takes to be a Christian.

Now when you look at this video, and you search your heart and you search your mind, is this what you truly believe in?
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conradw
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I would not be able to say what that video says and mean it (although in a different argument, I don't know if you have to mean it) for a number of different reasons.

1: I don't KNOW anything like that. I might believe it (and I'm intellectually convinced that Jesus existed, even if not by that name or if every story about him is absolutely true), but I certainly don't know it - how could I?

2: As a Pope-fearing Catholic, I know you have to be baptised to be 'saved' (I know this is a little tongue in cheek, but my point is that I disagree with the idea of bullying people into repentance with threats of hell). Also, please don't press me on why I say I'm a catholic, I attend a Church of England church where I was confirmed and disagree with both churches on a lot of things. Also I recognised I used the word 'know' in my opening sentence, it wasn't an accident.

3: I don't think you have to do anything to get eternal life. so there isn't only one way to get it.

To say that video was christianity is akin to saying that the point of graduation is to wear the funny mortarboard. I think you'll find that most christians don't share the views of the video, but unfortunately the loudest ones do.
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Concolor
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Barabbas
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Ah, we are closing in on my ulterior motive for posting that video ;)

What does it really take to call yourself a Christian?
Edited by Concolor, 15 Nov 2009, 10:09 AM.
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